kenk, Holding the owners of the loose dog responsible is the way it should be, however, when I called my animal control to ask "what if", they told me that there would be an investigation, and the outcome is not a given. They also told me that if they hold the big dog blameless that this does not mean that the owenrs could not sue for vet bills in small claims court.

Small claims court is often not about who is legally right, but who is responsible for the bills, and the judge may not have a clue about dog behaviour.

And, saying sorry, and paying vet bills does admit fault. I tell my kids that all the time, never, say sorry in a situation that could turn into a legal battle. I wouldn't pay the vet bills, UNLESS, I had received an order to appear in court.

 

I tend to think the law regarding a type of situation like this varies greatly. Frankly, in some states or at least counties, they could care less about a dog on dog attack. Of course, if an animal bit a human it is a whole different story.

Minnesota is very liberal, even regarding a dog biting a human, as long as there is no serious injury. Wisconsin is a bit tougher, and I am told has no law requiring dogs being on leash. So the situation the OP described might play out a bit differently, perhaps more like Ohio.

Nonetheless, I have yet to see a case in which a dog on leash was attacked, and the owner of the leashed dog held libel.

 

I feel so bad for you. I am sure the law is on your side.

 

I hope this works out the right way.

Lets go to the extreme, the people are convinced that they can get something out of the loss of their dog (if it died). They consult a lawyer. If they are 100% honest about the situation where their dog was loose and attacked a leashed dog walking with its owner, then the lawyer would probably tell them they do not have any legal stance. They tell him the same dog attacked their Yorkie another time. He tells them that he will not take the case, but they may be able to sway a judge in small claims court.

So they file a case -- usually costs about $25, but they are thinking that the Yorkie cost them $400 and the vet bill for this cost them $300, they are looking to get back about $700. A judge is assigned the case.

The think you have to understand is that even judges SOMETIMES put human characteristics onto dogs. Sometimes people think that a big dog should not pick on or attack a little dog. It is just very possible that the judge is a small dog owner and has had a very close call with a nasty big dog. These are things we just cannot do anything about.

I agree not to offer them anything and that you did everything right, specifically telling them that their dog has done this before. The thing to mention in court if it gets that far is that you avoided that street for over a year, and frankly, you should not have to avoid a public thouroughfare because they own aggressive dogs. When the dog attacked your dog, your dog was protecting its pack and itself -- they do not have any concept of big dog versus little dog. Be sure to mention that you were walking down a public sidewalk with your dog and children (who should never have had to witness such a frightening scene), and that your dog was leashed when the Yorkie attacked.

Hoping that everyone tells the truth, and this never goes to court, but if it does, I hope the judge rules in your favor.

It only takes one person sometimes to say something to convince someone that they ought to sue. Because of their power and their reputation, GSDs do not always come away in a good light.

 

Originally Posted By: MaryW kenk, Holding the owners of the loose dog responsible is the way it should be, however, when I called my animal control to ask "what if", they told me that there would be an investigation, and the outcome is not a given. They also told me that if they hold the big dog blameless that this does not mean that the owenrs could not sue for vet bills in small claims court.

I agree, but for me, I have hundreds of hours invested in training and Max is a T.D.Inc dog and Lilah is going to be, and have told animal control this and the city, its just not right that someone can just let there dog out, and sue some else because of their careless actions, the new laws here now, you go in front of a board of people that really know nothing of dogs, and they deam your dog is viscous then you have to post a $500,000 bond to keep the dog in the city limits, and that applies whether its a dog vs dog or human vs dog

 

I'm not sure about the laws in your area, but I think you'll be ok since your dogs were on a leash, as long as you didn't go on their property. From what I understand you were on the street and another dog went after yours. Do they expect your dogs to just stand there and let another bite them? If you dog went after theirs it would be different, but from what it sounds like neither you nor your dogs did anything wrong. If they try to take legal action regarding the situation just make sure they know the details of the situation and I'm sure you'll be ok.

Sorry if I repeated any points that anyone else said. I didn't read all the responses, only the first few.

 

Well just to update: My husband called animal control yesterday morning and he said that the yorkie owners would be stupid to say anything, and if they did he was going to give them a fine. Chuck (animal control) has dealt with these people in the past. From other people complaining.
And I went ahead after i got off work yesterday to file a complaint at the police department so they would have it on file.
I guess from what the police department said it was up to ME on rather i wanted the police or animal control to give them a ticket. I said no this time, I hope i won't have to. But if i see them even so much as walking down the street by themselves i will file the charges. I am just so ticked off that i can't even walk down my own darn street for crying out loud.
But i have not heard anything from them and hope i don't.

Thanks for the support

Andrea

 

Originally Posted By: amd1Chuck (animal control) has dealt with these people in the past. From other people complaining.

Good! He's probably issued other tickets and I think you should call the police/AC whoever back and say you changed your mind. Enough tickets and the owners will either wise up and train the dog or get rid of the little pest.

 

Excellent news

 

I think you should file for the ticket, not to get back at the owner, but to maybe get them to keep the dogs inside. You can't blame the dogs for the encounter, they're just doing what dogs do. What if they get out and get hit by a car or something? The owners need to step up and start taking better care of their animals.

 

I think that if their dog needed vet care, then you do not need to add insult to injury. I am glad that you contacted them and they have a record. This should set your mind at ease about them trying to sue you. They were apologetic and their dog is paying for their stupidity. I would leave well enough alone this time. No reason to make an enemy at this point in my opinion.

 

I would leave it alone also at this point, you now have the necessary key to open the door if something were to happen...

 

Glad things worked out they way they should. I agree with the other poster that a hurt dog and vet bills are a good wake up call for the owner to be in control of his dogs.

When I called animal control to ask my "what if" question, as I mentioned before they said it would be on a case by case basis. They also said that it would depend if any reports were on file (and how many) on any of the dogs invovled.

My conclusion was that if this were to happen to us, no matter what the outcome, I would file a report with animial control, so there is an exisiting record. Prior to reading several incidents lately I would have acted "next time".

 

Originally Posted By: amd1The last time this happened i called animal control and got no help at all because he is lazy.

Glad to see Animal Control wasn't "lazy" like last time. Guess opinions have changed now

 

Law or not, leashed or not, around your children or not, your dog should not be 1) biting other dogs, 2) shaking other dogs he has bitten.

Yes, small dogs are notoriously untrained. People notoriously have no clue how to train and control their dogs. The onus is on those of us who own large dogs that are prone to protective reactions.

I am going to guess that you are not walking your dog correctly. You have a reactive dog (this incident didn't occur in a vacuum, I am positive you have other instances of reactions), and he should be walked on a short leash when in public areas. A large dog should not be able to bend down to bite a small dog unless that dog virtually jumped into its mouth (of which, I am doubtful), because the leash should be too short, and you should always have a tight grip.

As soon as you heard the owner cry out for Rocky, you should have pulled your dog towards you so his neck was virtually glued to your hip. He has a bite history. Regaining control of him was your priority.

You allowed your daughter to walk a dog she could not control while you walked a dog you could barely control. This exasperated the situation. You then chose to try to regain control of the small dog with no bite history, over the big dog with a bite history -- that was the wrong decision. Your dog has a bite history. Regaining control of that dog was your priority.

If you cannot control your dog with a leash, then you must get him a muzzle. What if it is a child who runs screaming happily at him? (which has happened to me)

Keep him muzzled when in public until either 1) you've trained away his reactivity, or 2) you learn to control him with a leash. You should then always keep him muzzled when you are distracted (two kids and two dogs is borderline impossible to contain).

 

Originally Posted By: ceardachI am going to guess that you are not walking your dog correctly. You have a reactive dog (this incident didn't occur in a vacuum, I am positive you have other instances of reactions),

I guess you are psychic since you wrote "I am positive you have other instances of reactions"??

If you had taken the time to read the other threads by the original poster you would have read:

Originally Posted By: amd1Cause when we finished our walk yesterday, we seen plenty of other small dogs on leash and he just wanted to smell them.

Originally Posted By: ceardachA large dog should not be able to bend down to bite a small dog unless that dog virtually jumped into its mouth (of which, I am doubtful), because the leash should be too short, and you should always have a tight grip.

So you think a dog should be walked so that their head cannot move at all?? Jeesh.


I'm tired of living in a society where we punish the people that ARE following the rules because of those that don't.

If I'm walking my dog, on leash and under control and another dog charges (running, barking aggressively) right into my dog - if that other dog gets bite and/or killed I will be sad but I will NOT feel one IOTA of responsibility.

 

Wow!

If your dog is loose, and runs at my dog who is leashed, barking aggressively, one dog may go away bitten or worse.

All but one of my puppies has a CGC which has a specific test for dogs to be approched by another dog and person. All but the puppies have been shown at dog shows, meaning they have been standing/sitting politely while other dogs were being walked, trained, worked with on lead and off lead (in the ring).

But they are dogs not humans. They do not see things the way we do. If a four year old comes up to you with a toy gun and shouts "Bang!" you see just that. If a vertically challenged person comes up to you with a gun that appears to be real and says "Your wallet or your life!" That is more what your dog is seeing. They do not think they are being a bully, or that they should give smaller dogs a puppy license. If a vertically challenged dog comes up to yours yelling, "GET THE HECK OFF OF MY BLOCK OR I WILL KILL YOU!", the dog has every right to protect himself.

Dog Aggression DOES NOT EQUAL People Aggression.

Frankly, I do not see this dog as "Dog Aggressive" even if it did bite this dog. Dog aggressive dogs go balistic when they see any dog outside of its own pack.

Some dogs just do not like dogs up in their face. Their way of coping may be a nip or a bite or a growl or a bark. It does not mean they are dog aggressive, it means they do not like being approached aggressively. The problem here is what is often seen is one dog "just being friendly" and another dog over-reacting. This is because people are very poorly educated in doggy body language and behavior.

It is possible that people can get bit when they try to separate two dogs fighting. But your analogy of a four year old is not realistic here.

Just because your dog is a Yorkie and my dog is a GSD, does not mean that my dog is the dominant or aggressive dog in the twain. It could be the exact opposite.

It is up to BOTH parties to leash their dog. Yes, a dog CAN be leashed an out of control -- that is when it literally drags its owner half a block to attack another animal. That is not what happened here.

 

Thank you Laurie.....The fact of the matter is there are some people that say i have a dog that is aggressive...Well from my understanding a german shepherd is bred, to protect. Well that is exactly what my boy did was protect his family. I dont' think it was wrong. Now if he had just walked up and grabbed this little dog and shook it like he did, it woudl be a whole different scenario.

But even after the attack, we passed by one or two other small dogs and he was great, we passed people walking, children on bikes and all he wanted to do was smell and play.
There is no rule saying that i can't take two dogs for a walk and that my kids can't walk them.

I am really tired of people telling me my dog or i am a terrible person because my dog did exactly what he was bred to do. There are so many people that spend thousands of dollars and hours to train there dog not to react to this or that, well thats not right. If at that moment it is what the dog was suppose to do then he should do it. Especilally if he is protecting his family. Because i believe that one of these days one of those perfect dogs will snap and do something he is not suppose to do. Then he will be deemed a viscious dog. Because he was taught to never ever react.

 

Should a 50 pound child walk a 120 pound dog that has extreme prey drive and will drag the child along to get what he wants? No.

Can a child walk a dog that is under good control with a parent present? I say sure.

I would not want a young kid to take my GSD down the street. What if there was a fight, would the kid know what to do?

I think what you did is fine.

I train my dogs not to react to other dogs because I want them at shows. However, if a dog comes right up and makes an aggressive move, then my dogs are not necessarily going to back down.

 

Originally Posted By: amd1 but i had to grab Billye cause valley was trying to go after this thing that was coming after us, and she was dragging billye.

i think its ok to have a child walking a dog with a parent, but if i read this right the child was being dragged by a dachsund and you had to intervene. that is not a child who has the dog under control or is even capable of handling that dog.

when i walk my gsd and a dog charges out, i do bring her next to me so that there will be no contact with the dog (i mean she is pasted to my side until we are beyond said dog). i trust my dog, but as this incident demonstrates, there are irresponsible owners and there are questionable laws/judges who could turn any type of incident into a liability for the responsible owner.

dont get me wrong, i put the entire responsibility on the other dog owner, but unfortunately we all have to be proactive because there are so many clueless owners out there.

 

I am sorry but a dachsund weighs all of what, 12 or 15 pounds? My 2 year old niece could probably manage that much dog at the end of the leash.

But in the middle of a fight, dogs are nuts. Sorry. No one expects a dog to come right up into them when they are walking down the street.

Do we have to be ready for it, I suppose so. Should we have to be? No!

Let's turn it around. Let's say the OP was walking a Yorkie and her daughter was also walking a Yorkie. Now lets say that a GSD and a small dog come flying out at them. Lets say that the GSD circled, growled aggressively, and moved right into the Yorkies. Now lets say the Yorkie BIT the GSD for all it was worth, before the owner grabbed it by the tail and removed it.

Would we even be having a conversation???

 

Originally Posted By: selzer
Do we have to be ready for it, I suppose so. Should we have to be? No!

exactly. we've all seen enough to know we have to be prepared for irresponsible owners even if we wish we didnt have to.

 

I had to think of this thread today. Walking my girl this yellow lab without a collar ran RIGHT up to us and *THANKFULLY* all it did was run up and lay down next to us and they were very playful together.

All I could think was what if that dog WASN'T a good dog and gave off "bad" vibes. There is only so much you can do when you are confronted with an off the leash dog.

 

well we have not really been on any walks since this all went down. But yesterday the hubby, kids and i decided to go fishing. So we took ryder with us. He has never been so i thought it would be a good idea. I bought him a 10 ft. leash, and put him on his harness. There was two places to go, we decided to go to what is called lake froman. U never catch anything but moss there but worth a shot. So we pull up, and immediately i see an elderly gentleman carring a leash and i see his little corgi somewhat behind him. I get out go around the blazer, and was getting ryders leash wound up so he couldn't just take off. I was not worried about him attacking the other dog. My hubby got out and about that time the old man says, "do u have a dog in there" i reply "yes he is a german shepherd". He tried to get ahold of his dog to put it on a leash. Well his dog had other ideas. He came over to meet ryder. My hubby and i were both there petting ryder, telling him it was ok, they were sniffing each other out, just checking things out. Well the little corgi wanted to play. Ryder doesn't like to play with other dogs. The guy says is your dog female? I said no, but he is neutered...WELL then he says oh well mines not and he can get a bit snippy. SO i thinking great....Well he finally gets the dog on his leash..Ryder was turned around at this point away from the other dog, looking around. As soon as the old man got his dog on his leash this little sucker jumps at my ryder and bit him in the butt. Ryder turned, but luckily we were there to stop him from doing anything.
I know he should not have reacted. The guy says my wife wants me to neuter him, but i want to breed them. I get so leary now after the second attack with the yorkie, even though ryder was just doing his job....But i gotta be honest i was a little nervous but in my mind he did great this time. And he was on his harness, and i had better control over him.

 

The moment the fellow said his dog can be a bit snippy, YOU should have protected your dog.

A dog can only take so much. If he thinks you cannot protect him, HE WILL BECOME DOG AGGRESSIVE.

I really do not care how much of a jerk this idiot was for not controlling their dog. You have now been warned, the world is FULL OF JERKS.

Please, please do not let your dog get bit by another dog. Court systems are stupid. IF your dog defends himself against a smaller dog a jury somewhere might decide that he is at fault.

Personally, I would give up on allowing your dog to sniff, and play with other dogs, unless you KNOW the people and the dog, and then be careful.

I am sorry you are going through this. I am not trying to be harsh, just thinking of your dog.