The trials should have a premium list posted or available. That will state if unentered dogs are allowed at the venue or not. Not sure which governing body the trials you are looking at are being held under but in CKC there is an option to enter a dog as Exhibition Only, where they are allowed on the show grounds but are not participating in any of the events.

 

I'm just looking at going to AKC trials right now, I haven't yet searched to see what else is in my area, since that is the venue that I plan on trialing. I think I'll look up and see if there are any USDAA trials nearby, though.

I believe that AKC rules are that all dogs on site must be entered in the competition (though I could be wrong!) but it seems like it is perhaps not routinely enforced.

 

I've taken my non entered puppies to akc trials, however, I believe, they state dogs under 6mths of age not allowed. But again, I've taken my younger dogs with no issues, depends on the trial/show / whether or not anyone will say anything. Outside trials I'd be less worried about having someone say something vs an inside trial

 

I was guessing you were looking at AKC trials. The no puppies or un-entered dogs rules don't seem to be enforced around here, at least if you're a competitor with another dog that is entered. For spectators, enforcement kind of varies depending on the location.

If you're willing to take a chance, do a little research about the locations first and see how much space there might be to move around inside. 2-3 hours is a long way to go just to potentially get kicked out. Definitely look for USDAA trials and other organizations that are more spectator/puppy-friendly.

 

Thanks for the input. I didn't realize that the other organizations were more likely to be puppy/spectator friendly. Does anyone know the specific rules USDAA or NADAC (those are the only other agility orgs that I know about) have regarding puppies and spectators? Or is it more up to the individual shows? I haven't been able to find anything regarding either issue in my preliminary google searches. I'm going to try to look it up in the rulebooks but I don't know what section that would be under.

In any case, it appears that there are very few USDAA or NADAC trials near me (two of each in the next six months). Comparatively, there are two or three AKC trials per weekend :crazy:.

Driving all that way only to be kicked out isn't exactly my idea of a good time, but it wouldn't be the worst thing ever. I plan on going on mini camping trips nearly every weekend, anyway, so I can just plan those around whichever trial I'm hoping to go watch.

 

Ask...

 

Well, if I just straight up asked the AKC people if I could come they would have to say no. It's pretty clear in the rules.

But what I have observed is that there seems to be an unspoken rule of 'don't ask, don't tell' as long as you are not being disruptive. Which is why I am hoping to get some personal accounts of people who have had either success or failure taking 'underage' pups to trials.

 

Running a trial and having to worry if people bring dogs (in general) that might be sick, un vacinated/not good titres, etc. -----> would not be happy, especially in the event it is stated no non-trial dogs allowed.

You could ask and explain. But, having this happened before, we did not know the person, the dog nor did they call prior ----> we asked them to leave.

 

I'm scouting out nearby agility trials to take my pup to for socialization, starting at about 3 1/2 months, depending on where we are in training as far as exhibiting some semblance of self-control. I really want to expose her to all the sights, smells, and sounds of agility trials as soon as possible but I do not want to just throw her into the mix without first setting her up for success. I would like to have a decent foundation in focusing on "da mama" amidst distractions first.

This should be done at training, not at a trial. People have worked to hard to get to the point of trialing to have untrained dogs there. There are a thousand other places you can take her to teach her focus and distractions.

And people that do take dogs not trialing do not take them anywhere near the trial field.

 

Hmmm, Jax, I do not disagree with anything you said, but I think you're somewhat confused as to my intentions; however, I appreciate the input. Not so much the assumption of my carelessness to ever impede a trial by disturbing the peace, especially around the trial field. To be clear, I am in fact a decent human being with a respect for others.

Smithie, thanks for your response! I totally get where you are coming from. This is why I am especially concerned about crashing anyone's party at an indoor event. Outdoors, it's typically in a public place so it seems like it would be more likely to be accepted. Besides, it would be easier for me to stay far away! Good news is that I found one outdoor NADAC trial in October and the NADAC rules say it is up to the show organizer, so I will call ahead and see if we are welcome I am also contemplating asking the local kennel club if-- after we start classes with them and they get to know us--we could train independently in the corner during some of their agility classes, just to get used to the sounds, atmosphere, etc.

 

Some clubs will hold pretrial events a week or two before the real event. Maybe taking your pup to those would be less of an issue while providing a similar experience?

 

Jax,
I cannot help but believe you were confused by my post because you quoted me saying that "I would like to have a decent foundation in focusing... amidst distractions first." First. As in before taking her to a trial. Yet you went on to inform me that "There are a thousand other places you can take her to teach her focus and distractions." Which I wholeheartedly agree with. I do not intend to go to trials to teach her focus amidst distractions. I intend to go to trials to socialize her to the atmosphere that is unique to agility trials. But I will not do so unless she has already proven to be capable of focusing in a highly distracting environment, so that we will not be a nuisance.

I don't recall condemning your reading comprehension. On the contrary, if anyone misunderstands something that I wrote I would have to assume that my words were unintentionally ambiguous.

 

AKC rules used to be no unentered dogs on the grounds.

Find another venue

 

LOL okay

 

My feeling is that you should follow the rules. Premium lists generally state no unentered dogs, or something like that if it is an issue. But, overall, there is a reason for the rules. There are enough amped up dogs at shows, and those there ought to belong to the people who paid their entry fee.

For getting a puppy used to the sites and sounds, take him to some beginning agility classes. As he matures, he will be more and more ready to accept the full measure. And if at all possible, take him to some matches or run-throughs. They may not have agility, but they will have lots of dogs and people and sights and sounds.

It is unfortunate that there are not as many matches as there used to be, because that is where dogs who are not ready ought to be to get used to things.

Lastly, I would not take a puppy in the socialization stage to a show environment. Dogs will continue to be socialized throughout their lives, and the first year seems more important, but the socialization stage is really between 3 weeks and 4 months when puppies learn things differently, when good experiences are really, really good and bad experiences can be very, very bad.

You can be relatively confident that you can prevent something bad from happening at an AKC show. That is not my problem. My problem is disease. Not all diseases have vaccinations, and not all vaccinations cover all the strains of the diseases they are designed to protect the dog from. Ancient dogs and young dogs are the most likely to succumb to serious issues. Getting canine flu from a dog entered from a neighboring state, or perhaps giardia. You might think it's just a little colitis from nerves, and by the time you dig deeper the puppy has taken a serious hit. And while the pup may recover, it may have flare ups of the problem down the line. I just and a bit anal about where I take baby puppies.

A dog with good temperament can go to training and then go to a show and while the dog may not give its best performance the first time out of the box at its first show, some of them really surprise you. If the dog's temperament is ok, and it has not spent its first 12 months in a crate or on a chain, the dog will be fine making its debut at a show when it is actually entered.

 

The reality is that this happens all the time- and almost every venue "doesn't allow" unentered dogs on the grounds. The key distinction is that agility COMPETITORS tend to bring their new pups along to trials for lots of socialization. Completely normal in my experience.

As a non-competitor, I think you're pushing your luck in just showing up to a trial with a pup. While you might get away with it (and if you were closer- I'd say "do and ask forgiveness later") but in reality, it might be good to find an agility class at night to drop into to spectate. You can call ahead and ask- most all classes would be happy to have you watch.

 

It is against the rules-but I took Rorie to an akc show when she was a puppy. If someone is really serious about training and a puppy distracts their dog-they need to work far more on distractions-seriously. The AKC events are distracting-people training outside the ring with a squeaky toy-an OTCH competitors let their dog snap and snarl -when I was entering the ring for my first CD-or they stand at the steward desk demanding to know what their scores are-so they should be able to handle a puppy--you could also get connected to agility and volunteer at shows -and then ask if its ok to bring the puppy out- They would probably appreciate your help. Also CPE is a relaxed venue

 

It is against the rules-but I took Rorie to an akc show when she was a puppy. If someone is really serious about training and a puppy distracts their dog-they need to work far more on distractions-seriously. The AKC events are distracting-people training outside the ring with a squeaky toy-an OTCH competitors let their dog snap and snarl -when I was entering the ring for my first CD-or they stand at the steward desk demanding to know what their scores are-so they should be able to handle a puppy--you could also get connected to agility and volunteer at shows -and then ask if its ok to bring the puppy out- They would probably appreciate your help. Also CPE is a relaxed venue

There are rules for a reason. It certainly isn't so the OTCH people's dogs won't be distracted, else they would stop selling ice cream cones to little kids at shows, they wouldn't have them outside, they, well, there are just too many things to cite.

The rules are there because people do not stop at bringing a well-behaved puppy and supervising it properly for socialization. They bring dogs that have never been anywhere, and actually attack entered dogs. When we act as though the rules do not apply to us, others see us with our dog there, and think what a great idea, they will bring theirs. Suddenly, no one enforces that rule, so we do not need to concern ourselves with following it. And then someone's dog gets killed outside of a ring. Or some dog attacks an entered dog and at the next show, there are a lot of spitting mad people because they were asked to leave with their unentered dogs.

Encouraging other people to ignore rules is irresponsible. If you want to take your dog to a show, train your dog, enter your dog and take it to a show. Will their be people there with unentered dogs? Probably. But it won't be YOU. We can change the world 1 person at a time, but we have to start with number 1. Then, we can say, "what I do is..." instead of "you should...." or "they should...."

 

In my area it's standard practice for competitors to bring new pups to trials, but non-competitors would most likely be asked to leave -- even at outdoor venues.

I'm part of a small nosework club and our club policy for trials is that if you are not entered in the trial, you are not allowed to bring a dog onto the show grounds.
Trials are chaotic and busy enough (even the small ones), without the added chaos, liability, and distraction of non-entered dogs.

What I'm sure you'll find is that as you get involved in classes etc., and as your local dog people get to know you, that more socialization and fun match opportunities will start to present themselves.

 

I brought two non-entered dogs to the last outdoor agility trial I attended (to watch and photograph, not compete), however I have trialed with these people in this venue before, with one of the dogs I had with me. I kept my dogs crated back in the parking lot, didn't bring them ringside, but sat with friends ringside. My experience is that it's sort of a don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. If your dog is healthy and well behaved and you're keeping it away from the ring and other dogs, there's probably no problem (unless the premium is very explicit about no non-trial dogs).

I also do flyball and our tournaments are often at large county fairgrounds so the events are public (often there are 2-3 events like horse shows or gun shows happening at the same time) and we see random people walk over with their dogs all the time. Flyball is so crazy with barking and the chaos of racing that it's a lot easier to bring non-entered dogs even if they are *not* quiet and that well behaved No one will notice or care as long as the dog is not aggressive and not getting in the ring.

The two biggest issues I've noticed with people bringing non-entered dogs are 1) they are using "equipment" that is explicitly banned (for example AKC does not allow prong collars, not saying I agree, but that is their rule so they cannot be used at an AKC event) and 2) the dogs look so distracted and overwhelmed I can see the owners are frustrated and not able to concentrate on learning about the sports and the dogs are not really having fun because it's overstimulating.http://www.germanshepherds.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

One thing I would point out is that if you are going to do this, at the very least please be knowledgeable about the venue. The last two obedience trials I went to (and trialed in) were so small that there really wasn't enough room for even the dogs that were actually entered. It really isn't fair to stuff dogs into those events that aren't even entered making it even tighter for the people and dogs that actually paid the money to be there. (Plus, that wouldn't be the best socialization environment for a puppy anyway. It was tough for my shy, adult dog who goes everywhere with me.)

 

So really this thread has highlighted two different schools of thought:

1) People who actually do agility, trial their dogs in agility, and know what they're talking about in regards to agility trials (specifically in the fact that this is an extremely common practice for competitors)

and...

2) People who clearly don't do agility and have never been to an agility trial (in which they would have seen at least a few puppies being passed around and socialized).


As stated- totally common thing for competitors to do this. YOUR difference is that you're not a competitor. If your dog is really well behaved and chill, as Lies said: "don't ask, don't tell." And she's very right about the use of banned equipment. Or, like I said- see if you can sit in at a class. If your dog is a crazy fool that you can't control- then obviously shame on you if you brought them out to such a situation. Just use some common sense.

 

I don't know if any of this was aimed at me, though I suspect it was since it was the first post after mine, and it specifically mentioned those doing obedience or anything other than agility. For the record, yes, I have attended agility trials, even trialed in a few years ago. And YES, some of them have also been very TIGHT! (Amazing that different venues might have varying amounts of room.) The OP specifically stated these are indoor trials. At the very least check out the venue before just showing up with an unentered dog. I'm not sure why that advice would be so unexpected. :rolleyes2:

 

I've trained in agility, and I have been to agility trials. The Cleveland Classic has agility trials, as well as conformation, rally, and obedience. They want you to take you competing dog and go when you are done. There are too many dogs and too much chaos, and there is no reason for extra dogs, especially those whose owners are not enetered in anything.

Follow the rules. I really don't understand why people feel that they are deserving of an exception.

The thing is, just like the mods here are volunteers, most of the stewards and people at the dog shows are volunteers. They have done a considerable amount of work to put together the show. Part of that entry fee goes to insurance they have to purchase for the event. Those who enter the show with their dogs sign a paper saying they absolve the club of any liability if there is an accident, I believe it is part of your entry form. It also says something about being responsible for damages caused by your dog. Unentered dog owners sign nothing.

Club members, guests, competitors understand that the liability of the dog show is reduced by not allowing unentered dogs -- these are all dogs who have been trained to a certain level and around other dogs. They also understand that accidents are always possible with animals. Some of them understand the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes for these shows, by the volunteers.

Volunteers do not WANT to ask you if your dog is a competitor, they do not WANT to ask you to leave. That is confrontational and at least with the AKC, we want people to have a good experience at shows, so they will come back. They will train their dogs and enter their dogs. No one WANTS to tell you to take you dog and leave. Don't put them in that uncomfortable position. Leave your dog at home if you are not competing. I would leave a non-entered dog at home too. There is enough to deal with with the one or more that are entered.

It just isn't a great place for an outing with your pet. You have stressed out people trying to get to their rings and do good. You have way too many dogs, you have way too many sights and sounds and stuff going on. Go without your pet and when your pet is ready, enter your pet. You will get a big enough dose of shows with your pet once they are entered. There really isn't any hurry.

 

Depends on the club and event. I have done volunteer work at events I was not entered in and had one or two dogs along. If I can't bring my dog(s), then I can't be gone from home that long and won't be helping. When I got my first GSD I was trying to join the local agility club. You had to have a "sponsor" and a certain amount of volunteer time before you could join. There were no issues with me bringing my un-entered dog along, even crating indoors with competitors (had permission) and I was helping all day. A little common sense goes a long way. If the dog can't handle that environment, don't bring it. If the premium is very clear on no non-entered dogs or mentions limited parking and/or crating space, don't bring the dog. When in doubt, ask the host club.

 

Well, my dogs can handle show environments without being socialized to them as a puppy, and they can handle being at home while I am gone all day.

We don't have to bring our dogs every single time.

If you are working the show and have an incontinent dog, well sheesh, there never seems to be time to run a dog outside over and over again when you are stewarding or volunteering. But I think someone working at the show, a member of the hosting club is not the same as someone who has to google dog shows to find one.

 

You don't have to make mountains out of molehills. I travel with my dogs on a monthly, sometimes weekly basis so I know plenty about how to train and socialize dogs and title in a dozen venues. I have no incontinent dogs but most events I attend are at least 1.5 hours away and we all know that there's no such thing as a short or normal length day at a dog event. Leaving at 6am and coming home 12-14 hours later...no I'm not going to leave a young dog home that long, not fair.

Plenty of clubs allow non-entered dogs at their events. All the OP has to do is check the premium or ask. I can't remember the last time I was at an agility event where people with non-entered dogs were being turned away. Or, come to a flyball tournament. We love seeing new people that might be interested (and meeting/evaluating their dogs). There really is no way to know what it's like or to know how a dog will react than to try it out.

 

Lies, my irritation is with the "don't ask, don't tell," and "everyone does it" encouragement. It is irresponsible. Someone that is asking this question on this site is not a dog show veteran/steward/volunteer/club member.

As a competitor, I arrive before but near the time my class begins, and I leave when my dogs are done. I have no problem with stewards having their dogs crated at ringside, because they are there from beginning to end. Typical competitors should not bring unentered dogs, and spectators should not bring their dogs there at all. And yes, most of the events are an hour or more away. If I was volunteering, my dogs would be at home -- but they can go outside on their own to relieve themselves.

 

As a competitor, I arrive before but near the time my class begins, and I leave when my dogs are done.

Oh. You're one of those people. Well in that case, no wonder you're such a stickler. Maybe if you stick around for a bit and actually volunteer your time to bar set, scribe, gate steward or something- you'd have a more friendly opinion on why this is really a nonissue. I guess if you're not willing to put in the time with the community, then I wouldn't expect any rules to be bent either.

Competitors bring unentered dogs to shows where the premium disallows it all the time == FACT.