A "Porsche" as a family van?....really?! LOL!......
Well then.....I have a few "Lamborghinis"...that I have been known to sell as family station wagons....and at "bicycle" costs........OMG!

*sorry for sarcasm...could not help myself*.

 

I believe what she meant was that a high-drive, working-bred dog is like a sports car, whereas a companion dog is like a family van. You wouldn't sell a sports car to someone who needs a family van.

 

Maybe porsche will start making a family van-thought the suggestion of rescue was a good one-especially if you don't like the idea of spending all that money-you can find really great dogs in rescue

 

I think that people understood what was meant but thanks for explaining it to us

 

Ok...understand now.....cause the original way that I interpreted it...was "not in a positive way at all"...

 

Sorry Holland......I am one that interpreted it a "slightly" different....*I think*?
I interpreted it as "Their puppies being MORE than most...and not suitable for the normal family or buyer"....

 

Isn't that what she's saying-Somedays i think I'm speaking a different language-next time I want a dog I'll forward my resume to the breeder-ugh

 

Thats positive? I am so lost

 

Not "positive"....just different?
I don't agree with their statement.....but who am I to argue..? People say all sorts of stupid things...

 

Not "positive"....just different?
I don't agree with their statement.....but who am I to argue..? People say all sorts of stupid things...

I actually didn't even speak to Julia, I sent her an email giving her a brief description of what I was looking for. I told her I want to be very active with the dog, hiking, going to the river, running, parks, etc.

I guess I don't fit the criteria. I do find it interesting how I spoke with Rebecca at Valkyre and she reffered me to Julia, then was reffered back to Julia because her dogs are like "porches".

It's a bit confusing in that I explained to Rebecca the exact same lifestyle as I did to Julia, but Julia reffered me to Rebecca and Rebecca reffered me to Julia.

 

It's the hardest thing isn't it? Choosing the right breeder I mean. We drove all the way up to MI to pick up our puppy, it took me a while to find the breeder I wanted.

Goodluck to you!

 

I agree, Julia is one of a very small handful of breeders I have spoken with about my next cadaver dog prospect and our discussions have been about selecting the right dog for the right person at the right time.

When you get with a lot of the quality breeders they may only have one or two litters a year or less, breed a given litter with a specific goal, and what they *have* available at the time may not be the perfect match for you.

 

You have gotten some great advice and I really only want to add this. I bought my first GSD for $300, she came with huge temper issues! While I lucked out her health was always good I would NEVER do that again. My current dogs come from a breeder that has been breeding for 30 years, the parents have their hips and elbows certified. And yes I paid $1300 for my male and my female I adopted from her retirement program.

My point is these people seem like people that just decided to breed their dogs with no concern as to what they would end up with. I think it would be in your best interest to keep saving. Believe me there is a WORLD of difference between my $300 dog and my $1300 dog. Also what will these breeders do for you if your pup become ill? Is there a guarantee of any kind? My first pup did have health issues and my breeder stuck by me.. This is very important as any puppy (I am sure the breeders here will agree) can be born with issues no matter how great the parents. It is just mother nature and she can be quirky sometimes.

 

Ok just got off the phone with a back yard breeder.

I realize this person isn't a breeder by profession, however, here is the info I obtained thus far:

Here are the email responses I have received so far:

yes, i have lineage history on both parents, and i can send you pics of both parents also.The father has been certified for not having hip displacia and i am going to take the mother in to have her certified. both of her parents were certified for it, so she should be fine, but i plan on taking her in to have it done also. I can email you pics of both parents.

Hello, yes, both parents are registered with the american kennel club, and so i will be registering the litter. they are due next month. when they go to their new home, they will have been de-wormed, vaccinated and having a good start with potty training. the father is certified not to have hip desplacia, they come from good working blood lines. some are police dogs and they are show quality dogs from germany.I will be asking $800 for males and $1000 for the females and that of course includes full AKC registration papers.(not limited). I am located in Ukiah, but when the time comes, I am willing to drive about 45 minutes in either direction to help place my puppies in good homes.

Here is the blood lines for the Sire -

Harko Von Schloss Matzen Sire: Czar Von Schloss Matzen
Dam: Vac-Vagvolgyi Given


Czar - Sire: Gorbi Vom Farbenspiel-------------------------Sire:Mack Von Aducht Dam: Caty Vom Farbenspiel
Dam: Amsel Von Schloss Matzen -------------------Sire: Jango Vom Furstenberg Dam:Shava Von Schloss Matzen

Vac-Vagvolgvi—Sire: Sber V Steffen Haus ----------------Sire: Zapp Vom Monchberg Dam: Sarah Vom Nassauer Berg
Dam: Alag-Volgyi Fruzsi------------------- Sire: Filou V.D. Krauterwiese Dam: Cornavin Ivett

He is 5 years old and the dam is almost 3 years old. her registered name is :

Verochka Vom Nadelhaus: Her sire is is Whopper Von Trnje and her dam was Olexa Vom Nadelhaus.




On the phone, she said that all paperwork including family lineage, AKC and hip displasia screenings.

She also gave me a price of $700 on the phone and stated that the mother is 2 years old and cannot be tested for hip displasia yet, but both of her parents and grandparents hips were good and she has paperwork on that as well.

She also said that she got the mother from a place called "Natalist" or "Natalyst" in Sacramento. I can't find it on the web but she said they do police training.

Let me know what you all think and give me questions to ask if not yet answered. Thanks for all your help.


Here is a pic of the sire, she said she will send more but her computer froze up:

 

I do not think it is that out of the ball park.

Yes, having OFA hips and elbows done on the dam as well would be better. It makes you wonder why they did not. If you breed the bitch -- she goes into heat at 24 months, and you could not OFA because she was in heat, and you wanted to not lose the breeding, then after the pups were weaned you would expect them to go ahead and test them prior to her next heat. 2 months in there to do this.

So it makes me wonder why they did not. They could have pre-limed, I do not pre-lim, and would not expect others to, but I try to go ahead and x-ray prior to breeding.

Sometimes, if the birthdate is just right with the heat cycle, it may make more sense than to wait six months and have puppies right at Christmas time. Hard to say.

However, that the dam's sire and dam were clear of the problem is NO guarantee that she is. Just saying.

 

I would ask for proof of everything along with the male's OFA number before I take her word for it. In this day and age people lie all the time. Personally, I would pass.

 

If she can't produce the information she claimes, I will pass.

 

The thing you have to ask yourself if they are breeding their pets is do they know enough about the lines to know the pitfalls of putting certain dogs together. I think in the SHowlines where more in-breeding is required to maintain type that is an even more important question. There are a lot of things other than hips that can go wrong and you would be amazed at the amount of genetic research you see the serious breeders (still for maybe even one or two litters a year) go through to make the best combination.

Yes, they are BYB - just a little step above the first one. If you look at hip ratings alone those on the dams parents (you can look them up on www.pedigreedatabase.com (the data is user-entered but a lot of folks use it and I think major errors on important dogs usually get fixed) you can see a lot of borderline hip ratings in the pedigree.

Even with great parents hip ratings "stack the deck" - a lot of breeders are looking at the hip production of siblings, ancestors, etc and not just the individual dog but you have to have the data to know. Then there are problems like dwarfism, weak nerves, bad structure, etc.

 

You're supposed to get x-rays *before* breeding. What if the bitch turns out to be dysplastic?

I would pass on this.

 

You're supposed to get x-rays *before* breeding. What if the bitch turns out to be dysplastic?

I would pass on this.

What if she gets the screening done before I get the puppy and she is clear?

She mentioned that both the dame's parents and grandparents were clear. She said she purchased the dame as a puppy from "Natalist" in Sacramento. I'm not sure of the spelling.

 

V Whopper von Tronje - German shepherd dog

Olexa vom Nadelhaus - German shepherd dog

Gorbi vom Farbenspiel - German shepherd dog


I searched Mom and Dad and found nothing, these are the only ones I could find.

My opinion is if you have to ask yourself if this sounds kosher then it probably isn't.

If I were this person I would state the OFA/Penn Hipp certs right in the email period. I guarantee if you ask for the numbers they won't be able to produce them or come up with a good story as to why they don't have them!

 

Another thing to ask yourself is which type breeder do you want to support and get support from? I'd rather spend a bit more after saving a bit more, while researching a bit more and support a breeder that knows what and why they are breeding.
You'll then get lifetime support of what they produce because they care about what they are producing!
When I started researching for my next pup, I just kept socking away any $ I could so I didn't have to stress when it came time to purchase(and have leftover for the supplies and vetting).
Worth waiting and saving for awhile as this pup will hopefully be living with you for at least the next decade.

 

What are the names of the sire/dam? If they are "certified" they will be in the OFA or SV databases, easy enough to verify.

 

It looks like based on the email response the sires name is Harko Von Schloss Matzen. He is the only one who is "certified". The dam is not.

 

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I suppose I will eat my words if this is the father...

 

Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

I suppose I will eat my words if this is the father...

She did mention the sire is 5 or 6 years old. She doesn't own him, he is owned by someone close by.

 

Do they just own one female? I dunno this sounds so fishy to me. I would find a breeder that has pups from dogs that both have an OFA/Penn cert on them that is real breeder. I would still pass.

 

I'm trying to find a happy-medium here in terms of price and information provided. It gets a little excessive when the only option is to purchase a puppy that from a breeder that is world renowned. I understand the risks involved. I am trying to do my homework here and not jump into anything.

I don't think writing someone off just because they don't do this for a living is reasonable.

This is a family dog, I don't plan on doing competitions and what have you. If two great dogs are bred together, isn't this what ultimately matters?

$700 seems reasonable if she can provide all the documentation she claims.

 

I did not get the impression of any deception. I do wonder about the accuracy of the informaiton you posted - it would be very uncommon, I think, for an 11 year old bitch to have a litter of pups (the dams dams)

I am just not sure this is any better than the first litter to be honest.

 

http://www.nadelhaus.com/

This looks like the breeder she got her from in CA.

 

As you are new to the breed, I still suggest you slow down and research it more, while you save a bit more! But you will do what you want, and I don't think anyone here will give you justification to support a breeder that is just breeding to breed. I prefer to support a small hobby breeder that isn't doing it for a living, but that breeder knows what they are breeding and why they are breeding and have all the health tests done prior to breeding!

Sloooow down and read some more about bloodlines and GSD's in general. Go to events so you can see dogs and what you want in your next companion.
'Family dogs' still have to have a good temperament and health, that is most important.

 

Sloooow down and read some more about bloodlines and GSD's in general.

I appreciate the advice, but slow down? I'm not jumping into anything. I haven't even visited this lady yet.

 

Tuff I think what we are all trying to say is that you should elect to support a breeder who is doing it for the right reason, as listed in the previous response. Supporting this "BYB" if you will who has purchased a decent bitch from a breeder and found someone who has a decent sire and created pups doesn't make it right. She happened to purchase from a breeder who offers full registration at a flat rate. She I assume will intern offer full registration at the $700 rate with AKC. You intern could breed your dog with a decent dog and so on and so forth. The whole point is that we are trying to have you support reputable breeders who are doing it for the betterment of the breed, do it for a living, and KNOW what they are doing!

There are plenty of good reputable breeders out there and their pups are $1000. It's a hefty price to pay for a pet, but it is well worth the price.

You are going to do what you want, but remember you asked the opinions of a peanut gallery.

 

Tuff I think what we are all trying to say is that you should elect to support a breeder who is doing it for the right reason, as listed in the previous response. Supporting this "BYB" if you will who has purchased a decent bitch from a breeder and found someone who has a decent sire and created pups doesn't make it right. She happened to purchase from a breeder who offers full registration at a flat rate. She I assume will intern offer full registration at the $700 rate with AKC. You intern could breed your dog with a decent dog and so on and so forth. The whole point is that we are trying to have you support reputable breeders who are doing it for the betterment of the breed, do it for a living, and KNOW what they are doing!

There are plenty of good reputable breeders out there and their pups are $1000. It's a hefty price to pay for a pet, but it is well worth the price.

You are going to do what you want, but remember you asked the opinions of a peanut gallery.

I understand and thank you for everything. Please stick around and keep giving me guidance. I will continue to post any information I come up with for all you to review and give your opinions.

 

I think the dog itself is from good lines. All the ducks are not lined up in a row. I think if you are needing to pay less for a dog, than you cannot expect all the ducks to be lined up. And, you can get a dog from a fantabulous breeder on paper, have a problem for which both sire and dam tested clear of, and get no better, maybe worse support from the breeder than this person will give.

Have you talked to the person. Is he/she accessible (ie returns your phone calls). Is he/she knowledgeable? This is a hard question to answer If you do not know some of the answers. Like OFA testing can be done at two. However, it is NOT necessarily a good idea to do it if your bitch is in heat or coming into heat or just going out of heat. So while it can be done at 24 months, it may be better to wait until 26/27 months. It should NOT be done while the bitch is pregnant. They may have said they could not test her yet, and will test her when she is three. I would not necessarily trust this, though.

This seems to be the major point of contention. You will need to decide if this is too much to gamble on, or not.

Talk to the breeder. See if she seems like someone who has answers and is willing to make the time to answer them. Are they offering a guarantee/warranty?


I am willing to bet that there are some nice puppies in that litter who will have no more health problems than another dog, but if you are going to second guess and worry, it is probably best to just say no.

 

I think the dog itself is from good lines. All the ducks are not lined up in a row. I think if you are needing to pay less for a dog, than you cannot expect all the ducks to be lined up. And, you can get a dog from a fantabulous breeder on paper, have a problem for which both sire and dam tested clear of, and get no better, maybe worse support from the breeder than this person will give.

Have you talked to the person. Is he/she accessible (ie returns your phone calls). Is he/she knowledgeable? This is a hard question to answer If you do not know some of the answers. Like OFA testing can be done at two. However, it is NOT necessarily a good idea to do it if your bitch is in heat or coming into heat or just going out of heat. So while it can be done at 24 months, it may be better to wait until 26/27 months. It should NOT be done while the bitch is pregnant. They may have said they could not test her yet, and will test her when she is three. I would not necessarily trust this, though.

This seems to be the major point of contention. You will need to decide if this is too much to gamble on, or not.

Talk to the breeder. See if she seems like someone who has answers and is willing to make the time to answer them. Are they offering a guarantee/warranty?


I am willing to bet that there are some nice puppies in that litter who will have no more health problems than another dog, but if you are going to second guess and worry, it is probably best to just say no.

You see, this is a good example on where I get confused about hip displasia. The dame was purchased as a puppy from http://www.nadelhaus.com/

If it is true that she purchased from this reputable breeder, and the dog turns out to have hip displasia, wth?