[Freestep]

You not only asked an opinion of a picture you asked an opinion of a breeding that included The dog in the photo as the sire. You even went so far as to say that you thought 700 was a good deal for the dog. Certainly your posts went on for quite awhile giving every indication you were indeed considering a dog from that litter. Maybe you aren't a naive moron but you are definitely talking out both sides of your mouth.

Just because I'm telling you things you don't want to hear doesn't mean I'm not right.

And don't worry I can be a lot more condensing than you think I'm being.

I think the OP is trying to do the right thing, visiting many different kennels and looking at many different dogs. Coming here for help and advice in this quest is a positive thing--I'd hate to see OP feel alienated or discouraged from that.

 

[tuffloud1]

I think the OP is trying to do the right thing, visiting many different kennels and looking at many different dogs. Coming here for help and advice in this quest is a positive thing--I'd hate to see OP feel alienated or discouraged from that.

Thank you, you are one of the people who is actualy helping me without assuming everyone who is new to this is going to do the wrong thing.

I am here aren't I? If I didn't care and didn't research things, why would I come on here and spend so much time asking a million questions?

Every project I do, every thing that I have ever owned, I research a great deal. I've been this way since I was a child, very meticulous.

I guess it's the German in me. (I'm almost full German, Dad is from Berlin)

 

[selzer]

People who are crazy into dogs -- people on this site, breeders, fanciers, show people, schutzhund people, people who work their dogs in various fields -- they approach buying a dog very different than your average pet-person. They know what a dog, the type and quality they are looking for costs, and they know how to distinguish between decent breeders, and the others.

Everyone who finds sites like this one comes to it at a different mindset. But they ALL can become just as crazy about everything GSD as the rest of us, if they do not run screaming first. For some people, you can tell them that the sky is purple and they will accept that right away. Other people will just think you are nuts and move on. Other people will listen to your reasons and then take a few days or weeks to accept that yes it can be considered purple.

People who spend a lifetime getting dogs from people with free-puppies signs or from the pound, may take a little persuading to understand and adopt the reasons for not buying from breeders who fall into various categories depending on what they do or do not do with their dogs.

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves!!!

 

[GSDElsa]

I guess it's the German in me. (I'm almost full German, Dad is from Berlin)

Apparently not German enough if you can't appreciate a no-nonsense, blunt, and to the point post that is lacking all the warm and fuzzies :rofl:

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves!!!

Where is the Iron Fist icon?

 

[tuffloud1]

Apparently not German enough if you can't appreciate a no-nonsense, blunt, and to the point post that is lacking all the warm and fuzzies :rofl:

I appreciate a no-nonsense to the point post.

However you are just plain rude and disrespectful. There is a difference between being blunt, but helpful and just being condescending.

I'd like to get back on track here so again, please go away.

 

[Jessiewessie99]

I appreciate a no-nonsense to the point post.

However you are just plain rude and disrespectful. There is a difference between being blunt, but helpful and just being condescending.

I'd like to get back on track here so again, please go away.

You can't just tell someone to "go away". This is a public forum, she can post if she wants. I don't see her as being condescending. She is being blunt. Don't like it, don't read it.

 

[GSDElsa]

I appreciate a no-nonsense to the point post.

However you are just plain rude and disrespectful. There is a difference between being blunt, but helpful and just being condescending.

I'd like to get back on track here so again, please go away.

This isn't midschool. Telling me to go away isn't going to ge me to trot off with my tail between my legs.

My first post may not have been what you wanted to hear, but hardly condescending. Actually full of sage advice. My second...perhaps...after you dished your own giant pile of rudeness and denying considering purchasing a dog from him.

Condescending would have been telling you if you aren't willing to spend $1200 on a dog you don't deserve one at all. I gave you a very viable option that would meet the price requirements you want without supporting a bad breeder. I'm heavily involved in rescue. If I thought you were going to be a horrible dog owner I hardly would suggest one of my precious rescues.

 

[tuffloud1]

You can't just tell someone to "go away". This is a public forum, she can post if she wants. I don't see her as being condescending. She is being blunt. Don't like it, don't read it.

Sure I can. GO AWAY.

And yes, she is being condesending by telling me "uhhhhhh.......do you even know what you posted?".

And "don't worry I can be a lot more condensing than you think I'm being."

So she admittedly said she could be MORE condescending.

Why post on a thread when the person who started the thread doesn't want a rude, disrespectful person's opinion and expresses is that? I guess have at it, keep coming back and telling me I'm somehow wrong and I will ignore you.

 

[Jessiewessie99]

Sure I can. GO AWAY.

And yes, she is being condesending by telling me "uhhhhhh.......do you even know what you posted?".

And "don't worry I can be a lot more condensing than you think I'm being."

So she admittedly said she could be MORE condescending.

Why post on a thread when the person who started the thread doesn't want a rude, disrespectful person's opinion and expresses is that? I guess have at it, keep coming back and telling me I'm somehow wrong and I will ignore you.

Um no.

Exactly! If you don't like what she has posted put her on ignore.

I for one think Justine is very knowledgeable in her posts and like reading her input on things. But thats me.

 

[Catu]

Hey kids! everyone to their corner. Time out!

 

[selzer]

Tuffloud1,

You can ignore the individual you think is rude.

It is a feature.

If you go to the left and click on their user name, it will bring down a menu.

If you go to View Public Profile, it will take you to their profile

If you click on user lists, the drop down menu has the option Add To Ignore List.

You really cannot force someone off of your cloud here, but you can ignore them.

I think GSDElsa has a lot of good information, but as she said, she is into rescue, and she seems to think you will pick a bad breeder, which rewards these people to continue breeding.

And then she and other rescues end up cleaning up the messes they make.

 

[GSDElsa]

I think GSDElsa has a lot of good information, but as she said, she is into rescue, and she seems to think you will pick a bad breeder, which rewards these people to continue breeding.

And then she and other rescues end up cleaning up the messes they make.

Now Sue. Let's not put words into my mouth. I SPECIFICALLY said if you are not willing and/or able to pay the $$ that REPUTABLE BREEDERS ask to (generally) break even on their expenses, then you should go the route of a REPUTABLE RESCUE before you go buy a dog from a BYB.

I never said anything about "thinking" this person is going to buy a dog from a BYB. But after ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY (or so) posts, this person was STILL looking at BYB's and was STILL having a hard time wrapping their head around spending $1200 on a dog.

What is perhaps the most condescending and rude thing thing in this thread is the fact the some people appear to think it's condescending and rude to suggest a rescue as a "happy medium" to getting an amazing yet affordable dog and supporting a BYB.

Makes my head spin :crazy:

I am pro-reputable breeder and pro-reputable rescue. Please, Sue, don't make this a rescue vs. breeder issue. Reputable breeders do have to charge a certain amount to recoup their costs. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to spend that amount on a dog. But don't think there is any deal for anyone involved by getting away only spending $700 at a BYB.

 

[GSDElsa]

Why post on a thread when the person who started the thread doesn't want a rude, disrespectful person's opinion and expresses is that? I guess have at it, keep coming back and telling me I'm somehow wrong and I will ignore you.

Because it's a public internet forum and it's not all about you. Thanks to that nifty search feature this thread can be viewed by thousands upon thousands of people doing their own research. So, whether or not YOU want my opinion or not I'll still give it.

 

[tuffloud1]

Tuffloud1,

You can ignore the individual you think is rude.

It is a feature.

If you go to the left and click on their user name, it will bring down a menu.

If you go to View Public Profile, it will take you to their profile

If you click on user lists, the drop down menu has the option Add To Ignore List.

You really cannot force someone off of your cloud here, but you can ignore them.

I think GSDElsa has a lot of good information, but as she said, she is into rescue, and she seems to think you will pick a bad breeder, which rewards these people to continue breeding.

And then she and other rescues end up cleaning up the messes they make.

And this is what bothers me. I'm just a guy who came onto this site looking for guidance.

I appreciate it when people are to the point.

What I don't appreciate is the attitude. Treating me like I'm some big bad BYB supporter who is out to ruin the German Shepherd dog breed and support bad things. Like I'm some criminal of the dog world.

I hate it when people make assumptions about people who are really just trying to learn. It's frustrating and annoying.

I have a family, a wife, a 2 year old and 6 year old daughter. I want a nice family dog to enjoy and for my girls to grow up with.

I am doing my best to study up and study the reputable breeders and the ones just starting out, comparing documentation on titles etc, and weighing out the differences.

I don't want to just write off being able to find a nice family dog for $1000, just because it's $1000 and not $2000. This is just not logical to me. This doesn't mean settling for a dog that's "cheap".

If I can't find a dog that meets enough criteria to justify purchasing for $1000, I will end up upping the amount I'm willing to spend until I can justify it.

And from shopping around, I see many so called reputable breeders with websites set up are nothing more than a regular household, breeding dogs in their garage and have a couple kennels out in their backyard. They import their dogs from Germany and have all documentation on Title, OFA, temperment, a couple pictures of them showing their dogs at dog shows. They slap their kennel name on their pupps Soandso vom soandso and claim they are an establishment. It just seems like anyone could do this and claim to be more than a back yard breeder. But really, are they more? I realize that some people are way more experienced than others, however breeding dogs doesn't appear to be an exact science. I'm sure that going with someone who is $1000 more may buy a better structured, colored dog for showing. However, I'm not in this to show a dog. I do want a nice family companion that will hopefully be free of major issues. This is kind of stressful.

 

[Freestep]

I never said anything about "thinking" this person is going to buy a dog from a BYB. But after ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY (or so) posts, this person was STILL looking at BYB's and was STILL having a hard time wrapping their head around spending $1200 on a dog.

You don't know what's going through OP's head. It's my understanding that OP is new to the breed and trying to figure out what is a BYB and what is not. And asking for our help in doing so.

You can't always judge a book by the price on its cover--there are some BYBs that charge the same as, and appear to be, a reputable breeder. And I'm sure there are some reputable breeders that charge less than others(especially if you're looking at working lines).

To the average person, it can be hard to tell the difference between a BYB and a reputable breeder.

 

[Lin]

Ok, I just wanted to say something about the subject of telling a poster to go away...

This is a very big forum. LOTS of members posting. Even more members that don't or rarely post. And even more people that read the forum without ever registering. Many of us keep this fact in our mind when we are commenting in threads. We aren't just speaking to the person who started the thread, but everyone who might be reading it or might find it later with the search function.

You're new here, so you might not realize that. I don't mean this in a condescending way, just matter of fact. So unfortunately you're going to get advice here on things you don't ask or don't agree with if its relevant to the topic. Because its not just about you. So, please don't take it personally. If someone is REALLY bothering you, do as Selzer suggested and put them on ignore.

 

[tuffloud1]

Ok, I just wanted to say something about the subject of telling a poster to go away...

This is a very big forum. LOTS of members posting. Even more members that don't or rarely post. And even more people that read the forum without ever registering. Many of us keep this fact in our mind when we are commenting in threads. We aren't just speaking to the person who started the thread, but everyone who might be reading it or might find it later with the search function.

You're new here, so you might not realize that. I don't mean this in a condescending way, just matter of fact. So unfortunately you're going to get advice here on things you don't ask or don't agree with if its relevant to the topic. Because its not just about you. So, please don't take it personally. If someone is REALLY bothering you, do as Selzer suggested and put them on ignore.

I get it. It's all good.

 

[GSDElsa]

What I don't appreciate is the attitude. Treating me like I'm some big bad BYB supporter who is out to ruin the German Shepherd dog breed and support bad things. Like I'm some criminal of the dog world.
-Although it partially has to do with the breed as a whole, it has more to do with you getting a dog that IS going to be good for your family. Bad breeding with no knowledge more often than not creates nervebags who have to be carefully managed lest you end up with a giant lawsuit because your fearful, neurotic dog bit your 7 year old's friend.

I don't want to just write off being able to find a nice family dog for $1000, just because it's $1000 and not $2000. This is just not logical to me. This doesn't mean settling for a dog that's "cheap".
- It has little to do with being "cheap." It has to do with the cost it takes to do business. You will be hard pressed to find a single GSD from a reputable breeder under $1200 at the least. Because it costs a lot of money to title your dogs, care for them properly, and do all those health test. As others have said a few times...with rare exceptions, most working lines are considerably cheaper than showlines. And I also happen to disagree with the people who say they are "high octane" dogs. Almost every litter is going to have "pet quality" puppies in them.

And from shopping around, I see many so called reputable breeders with websites set up are nothing more than a regular household, breeding dogs in their garage and have a couple kennels out in their backyard. They import their dogs from Germany and have all documentation on Title, OFA, temperment, a couple pictures of them showing their dogs at dog shows. They slap their kennel name on their pupps Soandso vom soandso and claim they are an establishment. It just seems like anyone could do this and claim to be more than a back yard breeder. But really, are they more? I realize that some people are way more experienced than others, however breeding dogs doesn't appear to be an exact science. I'm sure that going with someone who is $1000 more may buy a better structured, colored dog for showing. However, I'm not in this to show a dog. I do want a nice family companion that will hopefully be free of major issues. This is kind of stressful
-Nothing you described above meets my criteria for a reputable breeder. And most people would agree with that. I personally will not look at a breeder who does not train and title their own dogs. A rare exception for me would be someone who did it for 30 years and has either turned the reins over to a younger person learning the ropes or someone who has a physical limitation (one example I can think of is a friend of mine who can no longer work her dog in protection because of some very serious knee problems...something like that). Reputable breeders are bringing dogs up themselves. They are keeping dogs back from their litters to train and evaluate themselves. They are NOT buying all their dogs from Germany with titles already on them. Hang around with good GSD's long enough and you will learn that to a certain extent it is an exact science. Of course with an error rate because even the best science has one. Consistently producing great working dogs with strong nerves and level heads is not a coincidence.

 

[selzer]

It IS stressfull. Maybe it should be.

You are making a purchase that you hope will be fore 12 or more years. It is a big deal.

Somewhere you have to find the medium between idealism and realism. Ideally you would choose a breeder by the temperament, proven abilities, and characteristics of their dogs, and the availability, knowledge, and dedication of the breeder. It is not really about how many things each dog has or has achieved, but the trust you have in the breeder. If you find all of that and find that this breeders pups are 3k to 8k, ideally, that would not matter, you would buy the best match for your family.

At some point you have to also be realistic. Not everyone can or should spend 3K on a dog. And if you find the perfect breeder, they may not view you as the perfect buyer. They may not sell to you. They may want all of their dogs to go to homes where the owners WILL train and title them. They may want their dog to go to a home that will show them.

I think you have to make some lists. What I want in a dog, What I need in a dog. What I want in a breeder, What I require of the breeder, breeder's dogs. What is the best lines for me and my family.

Once you know exactly what you want, and what you are not willing to compramise on, then you can find the breeders that fit that bill. Then you can look a little closer at each and somewhere in there hopefully find the right dog from the right breeder for the right price.

I envy you, you have the opportunity to do this prior to buying your first dog. Some of us had no clue when we bought our first dog. Kind of the difference between learning to swim first and just jumping off the deep end.

 

[holland]

So, like whats it like to always be right? If you ever fall off that high horse sure do hope you don't get hurt