Oh yeah I could go on all day as you could I am sure.
When we had the litter of puppies, I skipped the people altogether who would write and say "What can you tell me about the parents", when the bio said we didn't know mom or dad, never saw either but the mother died 2 days after the pups arrived...etc...
For those people, ethical/good breeders exist

But back to the original thread - if people want a well-bred, proven/health tested dog, you won't find it in rescue but you sure as heck won't find it on craigslist either!

 

The breed is very prone to HD. However, there are many dogs coming from reputable breeders who end up with HD or ED or some other serious health problem. Just read the health section on this board sometime. I know people who have paid a lot of money for their gsd and the dog has ended up with serious health problems. You may be able to stack the deck in your favor but you can never guarantee an individual dog's health.

There are also dogs from reputable breeders who have serious behavioral problems. In many cases it's the handler and not the dog but the dog does end up with a problem and some of these dogs end up (at best) back with the breeder or dumped in shelters or with rescues.

However, there are tons of dogs in rescue who are absolutely wonderful dogs with great temperaments and decent health. You just have to do your research, same as you do with a breeder.

 

ALL of my current pets - three cats and a dog - and ALL of my previous pets have been rescues, either from the shelter, or from rescue, or from Craig's List.

That said, I am planning to purchase a puppy this summer. (Litter is supposed to be bred in April.) I am purchasing a pup because I know what I'm looking for in a dog and what I want to do with the dog, and I'm ready to start a puppy, not another adult.

I do not feel guilty spending $1000+ on a puppy. At all.

 

With all the dogs out there do you ever feel guilty buying a well bred dog for $1200-1500? Do you rationalize it as you know what you're getting in terms of a dog?

No, I didn't feel guilty for buying Tanner. I paid a great deal of money for him, and I figured that I was buying the experience and knowledge of his breeder as well as Tanner himself. I wanted some specific traits.

So I went ahead and bought a puppy, even though at the time I ran the foster program for a large animal shelter and was very involved in GSD rescue in addition to my work at the shelter.

I don't think anyone should ever feel guilty for getting what they want and need. That being said, I do believe that many people can get their needs met through adopting from a reputable shelter or rescue. When my needs were met through adoption, that was the way I went.
Sheilah

 

I have / had both. I've rescued and I've bought. I would have no problem rescuing again if it was a dog/puppy I was interested in. I am also sure I will buy again.

Talking about Hd/Ed, in all the dogs I've had/have, knock on wood I have never had one with with hips/elbows that hadn't passed.

However, there are far worse things in my opinion than bad hips or elbows, like epi, sibo, dogs frought with allergies, DM, mega, the list goes on. Honestly, I'd rather have a dog with rotten hips than have to deal with the other stuff. Thankfully I've never really had to deal with that stuff either.

and no I don't think anyone should feel guilty about where they've gotten their dogs

 

Sorry if this was already brought up, don't have time to fully read each post.

If someone tells me that I should rescue instead of buying my next German Shepherd because buying means dogs in the shelters die...

I simply ask "Do you have children" if they say yes, I ask "Did you have them naturally". If they say yes, I ask "Do you feel guilty for having children when there are so many homeless children, children in orphanages, and children abused in foster homes?"

This shuts up everyone. I used to argue "i dont want a fearful dog again, blah blah blah". Now I just say this and they see the common sense.

I could argue that rescuing supports BYB but I'm not going to because it is just as dumb as the claim that buying from breeders is bad.

If breeders stopped breeding, eventually we would have little to no purebred dogs because everyone would breed their PB to a rescue because there were no more PBs to breed with.

 

I could argue that rescuing supports BYB

How on earth could you make that connection?!

 

Well, one could argue that puppy mills are more likely to have their puppies ending up in shelters than responsible breeders. I do know that a certain local breeder had too many litters at once and didn't sell them all and dropped them at the humane society. But you're not really supporting them or giving the breeder money by adopting puppies they gave away for free...

 

Here is my personal feeling, having done both a rescue and buying from a breeder. I will set aside all consideration of health and temperament (because if I am going to bring a dog into my life, I am going to love him no matter what he is like and no matter how healthy he is). I want to be with him for as much time as possible. These animals are only with us for a short time, and I want to be there for as much of it as possible. Therefore, I want that puppy as soon as he's ready to leave his littermates, at 8 weeks old. It's really challenging to get a puppy that age from a rescue, since those are the ones that everyone wants. Not saying it's impossible, but if I go the route of a breeder, I get my puppy at eight weeks old guaranteed.

I also refuse to let other people make me feel guilty for either choice, breeder or rescue.

 

I have four pets in my home at the moment. The oldest was found starving at a deer camp and brought to me. The next came from a no kill shelter. The third was a pure bread Great Dane at a kill shelter. Then I purchased my GSD from a good breeder. All of them were the right pet at the right time and all were good choices. I've never felt guilty about how I came to bring any animal into our family. I alter my pets to be sure I don't contribute to the shelter population. I think that's my only obligation since I'm not willing to do the work of a responsible breeder.

 

Just speaking for myself, I find it and inappropriate when people compare having kids to buying a dog - really not the same thing.

 

It's not, but it is the closest adoption/rescue analogy I can think of. I have yet to see someone judge a person for not adopting their own kids, but I have met dozens of people who, the second you don't adopt an abused/stray dog and buy instead, think you're this awful person. Whether or not you adopt should not affect how people perceive your personality.

 

With all the dogs out there do you ever feel guilty buying a well bred dog for $1200-1500? Do you rationalize it as you know what you're getting in terms of a dog?

Not in the least. I don't believe in the whole "if your not part of the solution then you're part of the problem" mentality.

My next GSD is going to be a long haired dark sable female with outstanding temperament. I already have a couple breeders in mind and we're talking 5+ years down the road and I'm not in a hurry.

 

I have rescued all of my dogs to this date. I say that I rescued Aiden because he was returned to the breeder around 3 months old, riddled with Giardia and a load of behavioral issues. I bought him for $250 back from the breeder, under a contract that I would continue with Schutzhund training.

That being said, I will be purchasing my next dog from a reputable working line breeder. And I will not feel guilty about it. Aiden is the love of my life and is everything to me, but he has had so many problems since day one. They are all behavioral, which I attribute to the lack of effort from his first owner, but I am 100% certain that by going through a good breeder, I will be able to avoid problems like this in the future. I want a dog bred for Schutzhund specifically, and I want to raise the puppy as a working dog.

I don't think anyone should be made to feel guilty about either choice.

 

I felt guilty when my DH bought Onyx from a BYB. I wish he would have researched more, or went with a rescue if I'd known he was getting us a puppy. Clover the present dog was a rescue I got at 8 weeks.
After my DH's "surprise", I 'rescued' Kacie....to balance out my guilt! Because I was always for the rescues.
Because neither one of the females had the temperament to do sportwork, I decided to go with a well bred dog, and had no guilt whatsoever that I didn't rescue, and supported a responsible breeder instead.

I fostered a dog while waiting for the pup. I do miss fostering, but with my current pack it isn't doable.
At this time, I'd rather pull a dog from a shelter myself than pay a rescue to do the vetting/ socializing. That is probably how my next dog will come into my life, but not for awhile!

 

Thanks for ALL your responses! I think I'm made to feel guilty because I'm in such a "don't shop, adopt" kind of atmosphere being in vet school. I'm by no means against rescue, but my family has ended up with both great dogs, and some dogs that have been had problems that we didn't know we were getting ourselves into (behavioral, etc.). If I'm going to get a GSD, I'd really like to get one from a reputable breeder so I shouldn't feel guilty about that. I think others just try to make me feel guilty about wanting a particular type of dog.

I got my Lab from a BYB before I knew enough. I've been really lucky with him. We're working through some minor anxiety issues with a behaviorist but he's a solid healthy dog besides that. With a GSD, I'd really like to find an ethical, reputable breeder.

Thanks again for all your opinions!

 

This has been a good thread but I hope people aren't buying vs. adopting due to fear of "behavioral and other problems". Because I'm hearing that a lot

 

What I find endearing is when a breeder will help with rescue/evaluating/placing or whatever.
I respect them that much more if they help with either transport/foster or anything to help shelter dogs go to forever homes. I know it may be risky to bring a shelter dog into their property, though. Even cross-posting on their website now and then a dog in need of a forever home, is enough for me to respect them more!
I transported a dog to a small hobby breeder for her to foster, and it was so nice that she was willing to do that. She ran a boarding kennel as well, so was set up to isolate the foster from her breeding dogs. Another one saved....

 

I think it's a personal decision. I have no problem with buying from a reputable breeder versus a rescue dog. There are good reasons to do both. Most good breeders I know also are involved in rescue as well.
All my previous dogs were rescues (mostly strays) but I was looking into buying a puppy from a breeder for my next dog. I ended up getting Bianca instead, from her previous owners who got her from a breeder (good bloodlines, health testing, etc)...

 

i bought dia from a great breeder. I actually do community service at the local animal shelter, they knew i was getting her and were not degrading me for not rescuing one.. they said i do enough for those dogs and understand. I was so relieved by that. i have had rescues, but i could not handle the heartbreak anymore with not knowing the genetic history

 

I applaud everyone that rescues a dog. I really do.

Personally, I bought every one of my dogs. I was looking for a certain thing in my dogs...and I spent my money on what I wanted.

I don't ever feel guilty on spending my money on dogs.. Other people try to make me feel that way.....but the good thing about being an adult.......you can do with your money what you want to.

I never apologize for how I spend my money.

 

I did not read the whole thread, just this post.

Whether you you purchase your dog from a reputable breeder or from a good rescue or from a pound, or if you rescue a stray and try to find the owner but end up keeping the dog, or if you rescue the dog from a friend or family member who is unable to provide proper care, you should not have to rationalize your decision to add a member to your household. You may use the term adopt, even for a dog that is from a breeder because you are adopting a family member, it should not matter how much money has changed hands.

What the AR movement has done with the adoption terminology has made it somehow more acceptable to go to a pound or a rescue than to go to a breeder. Sometimes people go to pounds or rescues to get a dog that costs less, plain and simple, but they are now heroes for rescuing their dog and they can call it adoption rather than a purchase. While the individual who spends more than a year researching lines and finding a breeder, is somehow a fiend for purchasing their dog from a breeder.

I think it is somewhere between terribly silly and rather disturbing to think that someone should have to justify how they obtain their dog. And no one should feel better or worse than another for that reason. We might preach about not purchasing from pet stores or BYBs because that money goes into encouraging them to continue to keep animals in bad conditions, breeding indiscriminately; but the fact of the matter is that those people are pretty much here to stay, and if decent breeders cave and quit breeding then we leave the breed to the scum of the earth.

I do not generally talk about dogs I have rescued as it is no one's business, really. I am not looking for people to pat me on the back and tell me what a good person I am. I don't think you do something like that for what people think of you. A rescued dog is no less a dog, and a purchased dog is no more or less a dog. They do not have a problem with how they entered their family, whether they were rescued or purchased or born on the premesis. It is we the humans that make too much of it.

 

Excellent post.

I was recently attacked publicly on another forum (a running one, no less) for buying my GSD from an evil breeder when there are dogs dying EVERY DAY in shelters and rescues. This person was supposed to be my "friend" and had recently lost 2 different jobs and decided to become a dog trainer, the job she'd always wanted. She started volunteering at a local shelter at the same time I was getting Rocket and then it began.

She went on and on about how "people like me" were the reason for puppy mills and diseases such as HD (as if mixes don't have health problems) and bad temperaments. She ended with a sentence about how she couldn't afford a dog like mine, but OH WAIT, she was going home with a purebred Dog de Bordeaux that she only paid $100 for from the shelter. Oh, and he was going blind, and that's why he was in the shelter, because people like me who buy from a breeder would've rejected him since he wasn't perfect.

Out of the 8 animals I've owned over the last 20 years, only two were bought from a breeder (and one was bought for a minimal fee as a 2 year old, who needed a new home), including Rocket. The rest were rescues or from the shelter. I've always advocated shelters, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in breeders. Obviously, since I'm the proud owner of a "purchased, purebred" GSD. I think if there were ONLY excellent, responsible breeders the need for shelters would be minimal. IMHO people like her make it harder for everyone concerned. I think many first time dog owners are guilted into adopting and/or misled into thinking they can handle any dog from a shelter, when in reality if the shelter or rescue is not a decent one, with trained and knowledgeable staffers, it could be a match made in H#ll. Many, many dogs there are very fine animals, but there are also dogs there that have had owners who have dropped them off with a host of serious --fixable, possibly, but still serious-- issues, or borderline temperaments likely made worse by uneducated "training" .

(As a side note, she ended up returning the dog a month later after the 4th bite--this time, in the head and face, requiring stitches to her head and by her eye. She's lucky it wasn't worse. )

 

I do not generally talk about dogs I have rescued as it is no one's business, really. I am not looking for people to pat me on the back and tell me what a good person I am. I don't think you do something like that for what people think of you.

I don't think anyone is out for pats on backs when they are out to get a companion. After all, it is about the welfare of the dogs, not what others think. Regardless of getting a shelter dog, rescue dog, byb dog or well bred dog, that dog will hopefully live with you for several years and be a happy tail wagging dog.
The initial cost of the dog is minimal no matter where it comes from compared to adding in the lifelong maintenance, vetting and training.
I agree with you Selzer, the word 'adoption' has become an AR buzzword.

 

I adopted my first dog 24 years ago and it was called adopting back then too. It's not a new term.

I have seen lots of people saying they "adopted" dogs that they bought from breeders and also seen breeders advertising using the term "adoption."

I have seen far more nasty posts about rescuing and complaining about rescues and dogs people have rescued than about breeding, breeders and dogs that people have purchased.

To be perfectly honest, I feel like rescued dogs are held in far less esteem on the gsd boards than dogs from reputable breeders, or breeders who people know from these boards. They are in the same category as byb dogs with unknown pedigrees.

People often refer to rescues as something like a crap shoot b/c their genetics are (often but not always) unknown. However, neither breeding nor genetics is not an exact science so you don't always get exactly what you think you're getting when you buy a puppy.

Anyway, it's threads like these (and the nasty racist and homophobic comments in Chat) that often cause me to take a break from the boards.

In fact, I'm going to take the two throwaway dogs (do you like that term better?) who are currently hanging out in my living room and go for an off leash walk in the snow.

 

Well said!

 

I know somebody who spent a great deal of time researching breeders so that she can have a healthy dog with no hip dysplasia. So she found one and paid a lot of money for the puppy. Well, one of the parents was a golden the other a lab, both health tested show dogs with good hips. and the breeder was very reputable.

 

I'm really unsure why people are getting upset over how the word "adoption" is being used.

Perhaps this part of the what Sue said was missed...it's a pretty important part..

A rescued dog is no less a dog, and a purchased dog is no more or less a dog. They do not have a problem with how they entered their family, whether they were rescued or purchased or born on the premesis. It is we the humans that make too much of it.

 

I have rescued and purchased from reputable breeders. I felt guilty at first many years ago when I bought my first dog from a breeder because at the time I was heavily involved in rescue/shelter work and had always rescued my pets before. My fellow shelter coworkers did not get why I was sending money to an "evil breeder" for a puppy when I could just adopt one instead. For me over the last several years I decided that if I wanted a pet and one that would solely be a pet with no other purpose in mind that I would rescue a dog. If I wanted a dog I could do something with competitively then I would go to a breeder. I have done that more recently and now the number of breeder acquired dogs outnumbers the number of rescued dogs in my home. I would like to show in conformation and obedience because I love both. Can't do the conformation part with a rescued dog and since my eventual goal is to *hopefully* breed then that also excludes rescued dogs. Not sure if that goal will ever come to be realized, but I'm trying!

 

It depends what fits YOU!

Personally, my golden retriever came from the best breeder here in FL. I got her in 1997 as an 8 week old puppy. She was the best dog I ever owned and I loved her to death. At that time though, we were looking for a healthy, active, family pet that I would grow up with and train myself. (I begged for 2 years straight!) So, a breeder pup was what my parents thought was best. And it was. However, we rescued a lot of animals growing up and they were all fantastic too!

Zira was a rescue that we pulled from a horrible pet store situation at 3 1/2 months old. Our next is going to be a rescue. We want an adult (or younger puppy/adolescent). That's what fits our house right now... so that's what we are going for.

Though, I guarantee you... my 3rd (waaaaaay down the road) WILL be a puppy from a breeder as I will want specifics from that dog and that will be what will fit then. And no I will not feel guilty about that in any way!

Don't feel guilty about going with what fits your family, lifestyle, and needs. If they don't fit (breeder pup or rescue)... it's actually doing just the opposite... you are doing an injustice to yourself and the dog.

Do what YOU feel is right for YOUR situation and lifestyle! Anyone who argues with that isn't worth your time anyways. Neither of them make you a bad person.... rescuing doesn't always make you a good person and buying a breeder puppy doesn't make you a bad person.... they both just make you a person who has truly understood what fits their home and made a responsible decision!

I've done both, and both have always turned out to be a huge positive in my life as well as the animals.

Good luck with your search for what fits you! I am sure either way you will get a fantastic companion!