[Tennessee]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the theory.

Just to avoid any confusion, let me state clearly that it is always unwise to pressure a dog that is resource guarding anything, food especially! It is an almost sure thing that the dog will bite you! No one here, myself included, is suggesting doing or allowing that!

Resource guarding is typically a matter of trust. You don't "correct" a dog into trusting you. IT CAN'T BE DONE! You show them they can trust you, and help them get over their anxiety by NOT messing with their food! I know some people here have suggested it's a genetic thing, but from what I've seen in most cases it's a learned behavior due to environment. Though we did have one dog, who had nerves of jello, that could not overcome her resource guarding of food ever...So yeah, we fed her separately and left her alone, poor thing! But with that one exception all of the other dogs myself and my family have owned over the years, 50 and counting, were able to overcome their need to resource guard stuff...any stuff, food included!

Training your dog to either tolerate or get away from a child may help heighten a dog's threshold slightly, but it does not suppress their natural warning signals. The dog will will still growl before biting! And in my life, several dozen kids (family, extended family, and friends), and I can't count how many dogs of all varieties NOT ONE SINGLE CHILD has ever been bitten by any of our dogs! It's a simple matter of teaching them manners. That's it, nothing extreme! Totally doable with the vast majority of dogs, just a matter of teaching - i.e. communicating - the response you want to see.

And this training seldom requires any stern corrections. Kid gets close to dog, dog growls, negative verbal marker and call the dog away, high praise for compliance. Remove offending child and give back whatever the dog felt the need to growl about. It's not rocket science! And it's not suppressing, it's teaching. Repeat that as needed, and that's usually enough for many dogs to get it.

As stated before though, if one of my dogs chooses to snap at a child instead of moving away, I react STRONGLY and immediately, to let them know - without nagging - that that behavior is unacceptable. Then we move on...

Well, you did ask..... >

I will note that we're getting into that nebulous territory of people disagreeing with each other strongly over things with different definitions to different people. Negative marker like a stern "Nein!" is not really what I think of when I think "punishment".

 

[WateryTart]

Well, you did ask..... >



I will note that we're getting into that nebulous territory of people disagreeing with each other strongly over things with different definitions to different people. Negative marker like a stern "Nein!" is not really what I think of when I think "punishment".

Please tell me you bark out the “NEIN!” in a German accent. Please.




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[tim_s_adams]

Tim, I wasn’t giving advice. I was saying what I would do myself and why. Parents are totally free not to like that, but in my hose, where children do not live, this is what would happen. I don’t care what you (g) do with your dog. I can have an opinion about what I think is wise regarding the sequence of warning signals and you can disagree, but I’m not advising anyone. I’m not claiming to advise anyone. I’m totally happy for the two of us to agree to disagree!


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It's all good @WateryTart, no offense intended or implied on my part! And yes, we can agree to disagree! I was responding in general, not trying to convince you to change your practices!

 

[Tennessee]

Please tell me you bark out the “NEIN!” in a German accent. Please.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Of course, how else could I expect them to understand me if I don’t pronounce it properly?

Besides it’d be extremely rude to subject them to a butchering of their native tongue at home, that’s supposed to be their safe space.

 

[tim_s_adams]

Well, you did ask..... >

I will note that we're getting into that nebulous territory of people disagreeing with each other strongly over things with different definitions to different people. Negative marker like a stern "Nein!" is not really what I think of when I think "punishment".

That's funny, I see no question in the post you quoted LOL!

But to clarify, I meant a reaction from me that is WAY beyond any negative verbal marker...and no, I will not describe said correction in detail...

I don't look at it as being punishment in the sense of being punitive, though for me it's difficult to remain calm when a dog snaps at a child! But it's training...I try very hard to hold no grudge, just a STRONG message, then move on... >

 

[Tennessee]

That's funny, I see no question in the post you quoted LOL!

But to clarify, I meant a reaction from me that is WAY beyond any negative verbal marker...and no, I will not describe said correction in detail...

I don't look at it as being punishment in the sense of being punitive, though for me it's difficult to remain calm when a dog snaps at a child! But it's training...I try very hard to hold no grudge, just a STRONG message, then move on... >

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_s_adams View Post
Ahh, but you conveniently skipped right over the first question. What, in your mind, does the dog learn from you not saying anything to the dog and just ushering away the kid? Do you think your dog understands somehow from that that snapping is okay as long as they don't make contact, but nipping or biting isn't?

:tongue:

 

[tim_s_adams]

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim_s_adams View Post
Ahh, but you conveniently skipped right over the first question. What, in your mind, does the dog learn from you not saying anything to the dog and just ushering away the kid? Do you think your dog understands somehow from that that snapping is okay as long as they don't make contact, but nipping or biting isn't?

:tongue:

Well...are you going to answer it? LOL!

 

[tc68]

His behavior will only get worse unless you change some things! Don't wait! Find a good balanced trainer to help you learn how to control your pup! But in the meantime, don't continue to allow him to tell you what to do! He growls at you if you don't put his food down quickly enough? Are you sure he's growling at you and not just being vocal?

Does he know any commands? Has he had any training at all?

Stop taking stuff from your dog! Once you give it to him, leave him alone to enjoy it without any interference. And again, find a good balanced trainer to help you!

Yes, tim, I know the difference between a growl with him showing his teeth and him just being vocal. And yes, he has had some training, not a lot though. I will be contacting a GSD (Shuzthund) trainer to further the training. Hopefully he can help me with some of the other problems I'm having.

So I guess you're in the camp of "don't take things from your dog." I'm not. While I appreciate your point of view, it does me no good. There are times when I need to take things from him for his safety and/or mine and if I can't without being bitten, then there's a real problem. I'm sure you know what 8 months old adolescents are like. They are defiant. While "leave it or drop it" is a work in progress and he probably listens every other time...when he has something of high value he won't listen. I've got two 85yo senior citizens living with me and they aren't that mobile anymore. I have to worry about their safety also. Their memories aren't so good anymore. I can tell them 50 times not to take things away from the dog, they'll still do it because they don't remember as well as they used to. And, have you ever played fetch with a dog and the dog won't give it back to you? I threw a frisbee and he took it to chew it and it was getting shredded. He wasn't spitting the pieces out. He was swallowing them. So at that point I have to take the frisbee away from him. When I got close to get it, he chomped down on my hand. Unacceptable. "Stop taking stuff from your dog"...is not an option. If you've read any of my other postings, I mentioned once that he ate 2 feet of a paracord leash and I had to rush to the emergency hospital to have him induced to vomit. All 2 feet of it came out in big chunks. If I let it go, it would have clogged his system because it would've expanded in his intestines. Then we would've been talking about life or death and thousands of dollars worth of surgery. So I think you should understand by now why I have to be able to take things away from him.

 

[cloudpump]

My dogs all start off eating in their crates. No kids, no other dogs, etc are going to bother them. As they get older, I allow them to eat, one in the kitchen, the other in the living room.
A few weeks ago my daughter fed then for me. I noticed that she hadn't added water and mentioned that out loud. She went right towards the dog in the kitchen to get the bowl to add water. Poor child, I yelled at her to stop. Then I explained to her how we never touch dog bowls. Do I think either of my dogs would react? No. But I never want them to think their food can be taken away. And children, guests and residents, need to learn how to be around dogs.

 

[Scotibs]

I don’t get this “bothering” a dog while it’s eating. Especially when people say “I wouldn’t like it if someone did that to me!”. Really? Are these the same people that strap an e-collar and pinch collar on? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. UNLESS you start saying “I wouldn’t want someone to put an e-collar on me!”.. I’ve had a dozen dogs and as soon as I get the puppy I nicely pet them around the mouth while they’re eating. I don’t take food, I just give them attention. They get used to your hands and there’s no issue with food aggression. 100% success rate. I’m reading about people saying kids should stay away, I stopped my kid from getting too close, etc... Why have to stop your kids from being around the dog when it’s eating? Why worry about ANYONE being around the dog eating if you can easily solve the problem? You don’t “bother” the dog. It gets it immediately. They usually like the attention or, like mine, is completely indifferent. Again, it’s a positive experience and the dog never cares you’re there. My hand is mixing the food, petting her cheecks, adding food, holding the bowl for her, anything I want. And it’s a non-event. I don’t understand if you can easily, nicely and painlessly remove a bad attribute- you can’t tell me there’s anything good about food aggression- why not? Because it may “bother” the dog? Please.

 

[tim_s_adams]

Yes, tim, I know the difference between a growl with him showing his teeth and him just being vocal. And yes, he has had some training, not a lot though. I will be contacting a GSD (Shuzthund) trainer to further the training. Hopefully he can help me with some of the other problems I'm having.

So I guess you're in the camp of "don't take things from your dog." I'm not. While I appreciate your point of view, it does me no good. There are times when I need to take things from him for his safety and/or mine and if I can't without being bitten, then there's a real problem. I'm sure you know what 8 months old adolescents are like. They are defiant. While "leave it or drop it" is a work in progress and he probably listens every other time...when he has something of high value he won't listen. I've got two 85yo senior citizens living with me and they aren't that mobile anymore. I have to worry about their safety also. Their memories aren't so good anymore. I can tell them 50 times not to take things away from the dog, they'll still do it because they don't remember as well as they used to. And, have you ever played fetch with a dog and the dog won't give it back to you? I threw a frisbee and he took it to chew it and it was getting shredded. He wasn't spitting the pieces out. He was swallowing them. So at that point I have to take the frisbee away from him. When I got close to get it, he chomped down on my hand. Unacceptable. "Stop taking stuff from your dog"...is not an option. If you've read any of my other postings, I mentioned once that he ate 2 feet of a paracord leash and I had to rush to the emergency hospital to have him induced to vomit. All 2 feet of it came out in big chunks. If I let it go, it would have clogged his system because it would've expanded in his intestines. Then we would've been talking about life or death and thousands of dollars worth of surgery. So I think you should understand by now why I have to be able to take things away from him.

I certainly meant no offense with my questions, my friend. I was just trying to get a better idea of what you're seeing! Given the additional information you provided in this post, I see more clearly that you definitely are in a tough situation!

What I got from your first post is that you have an adolescent dog who is literally bullying you. Yes, I know what an adolescent dog can be like. But I've never had a dog the snarled and showed his teeth at me for any reason! Adolescent dogs do like to test their boundaries, no question there. But your reaction to that testing is every bit as important as any other thing you might do with your dog! And that's why I recommended getting a good trainer to help you get this dog back under control! You are being bullied!

And yes, as a rule I don't mess with my dog ever after I've given her something to eat. I don't mess with her food unless I have something more to add...and I have never had any reason to take it from her once I've given it to her.

That being said, I also have very very rarely ever had to physically take something from her mouth that she shouldn't eat or have...And only then when she was a small puppy and didn't yet understand drop it or leave it. Physically taking something away like that can be both challenging and or intimidating to a dog. At 8 months of age I'd sort of expect him to defend himself from that!

Magwart offered some ideas, like trading toys instead of just trying to take them away,
that might help you. But honestly at this stage, I'd recommend waiting for the trainer to help before implementing any changes, because the dog is not showing you any respect. Trying to implement changes on your own could get you bitten again. So avoid confrontation with your dog and work with a trainer! I don't think any 8 month old dog is "completely gone" or beyond hope. I think he's just a normal adolescent male dog. But the dynamic between you and your dog definitely needs to change! Of course, you already know that, and it sounds like you have a good trainer lined up already, so things will get better! Good Luck! And let us know how it goes with training...

 

[Sabis mom]

Half the time Shadow won't eat unless I am petting her, or holding her dish, or feeding her by hand. She definitely isn't eating if I am not in the room.
Just sayin'.

I've definitely had lots of dogs and like @Scotibs no fails yet. I opted not to try with Bud out of compassion, not because I thought I couldn't.
I disagree with denying food, I disagree with taunting with food. If I touch you while you eat, it should not be a big deal. If I walk near you, or bump into you while you eat it should not be a big deal. I am also a huge fan of hand feeding as a bonding exercise. Sabi often slept on the kids while eating, she was bad for taking naps mid meal.

 

[newlie]

I don’t get this “bothering” a dog while it’s eating. Especially when people say “I wouldn’t like it if someone did that to me!”. Really? Are these the same people that strap an e-collar and pinch collar on? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. UNLESS you start saying “I wouldn’t want someone to put an e-collar on me!”.. I’ve had a dozen dogs and as soon as I get the puppy I nicely pet them around the mouth while they’re eating. I don’t take food, I just give them attention. They get used to your hands and there’s no issue with food aggression. 100% success rate. I’m reading about people saying kids should stay away, I stopped my kid from getting too close, etc... Why have to stop your kids from being around the dog when it’s eating? Why worry about ANYONE being around the dog eating if you can easily solve the problem? You don’t “bother” the dog. It gets it immediately. They usually like the attention or, like mine, is completely indifferent. Again, it’s a positive experience and the dog never cares you’re there. My hand is mixing the food, petting her cheecks, adding food, holding the bowl for her, anything I want. And it’s a non-event. I don’t understand if you can easily, nicely and painlessly remove a bad attribute- you can’t tell me there’s anything good about food aggression- why not? Because it may “bother” the dog? Please.

To each his own. The dogs I took home as adults don't react either if every once in a while I have to remove their bowl to add something to it nor do they react if I walk near them or pat their back while they are eating. I have no problem with hand-feeding itself, I've done it several times when my dogs had been sick and I was encouraging them to eat. However, I do not choose to routinely stick my hands in their bowls or take their bowls away and give them back just to show that I can. It's stupid and I am not going to risk creating problems where none exist. And to answer your question, yes, I have used a prong and a e-collar both before on one or the other of my dogs and I did hold the E-collar against the skin on my arm because I wanted to see what it felt like. The collars were for control and served an legitimate purpose as opposed to monkeying with their food which would have just been a power trip.

And that's the basis for my statement "Somebody might lose a finger or two if they tried that with me" originated. I don't react well to anyone who tries to mess with me just because they think they can.

 

[Jax08]

My previous GSD, I could take his food or treats any time I wanted and he was cool with it. Never had any problems with him. He was very gentle/careful with his mouth. The current 8 months old...not at all. I've been bit twice now. He has drawn blood. He growls at me if I don't put his food down fast enough. If I make him wait for it, he goes nuts. If I get too close while he eats, he growls. If I reach for his bowl, forget it, he'll snap at me. I give him bones (or any high value treats) and when I go to take it away from him, he growls and shows his growly face at me. When I went to reach for his frisbee outside while we were playing, he chomped down on my hand. That one hurt bad. However, there are some things that I can do that makes me think he's not completely gone. I can hold his antler while he's gnawing on it without any problem. In fact he wants me to hold it for him. I can hand feed him, but that doesn't help me/him. I can walk over him and straddle him while he's eating, no problem.

While I agree with everyone that we shouldn't bother them while they're eating, there are times when you need to take the bowl/food/treat/toys away. If I can't do it without getting my hand all bloody with the possibility of the tendons in my hand being ripped by those sharp teeth, then there's a problem. He's 8 months old now and 80 lbs and I'd like to get this "fixed" before he gets to be full grown.

Do you have a trainer yet? I know a few in MD/VA/PA that can help you.

1. Impulse control.
2. Solid Out.
3. Trust that something better is coming.

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

I don’t understand if you can easily, nicely and painlessly remove a bad attribute- you can’t tell me there’s anything good about food aggression- why not?

I do easily, nicely, painlessly, prevent food guarding from occurring. Nobody is saying food aggression is okay or shouldn't be addressed. There are better methods with much less potential for negative consequences, that's all. For some dogs it won't matter what you do. For others it will, and instead of stopping resource guarding you can actually make it worse if the issue is handled wrong. It doesn't seem to matter how many different people say it or how they say it, this point just keeps getting missed.

 

[Richd]

The first day I got the two shepherds I got as puppies, I gave them both a high value food item and took it away. They both growled. They both got yelled at in my loudest voice with a light slap. I repeated the process immediately and several times for the next week and after the first scolding they never growled at me. The second week I had other members of the family take the food away also. The first person to try it, other than myself, would get a growl. I would immediately yell and scold. After that I don't think either dog ever growled at anyone in regard to food and both were/are extremely gentle taking food from anyone's hand, especially children. I would test them once a month for the first year and once or twice a year after that. Never a problem. I frequently will give a couple of strokes on the back when eating and it causes 0 reaction. It's so common for dog bites to occur when you mix children, food and dogs, that you have to be proactive and train them to be tolerant as soon as you can. I generally don't use much negative reinforcement but this is an exception. It's so rare I raise my voice with the dogs, that when I do, it makes a major impact, so I save it for the worst infractions.


In regard to showing dominance by taking food away, I think wolf behavior is for the highest ranking wolves to eat their fill first and then it goes down the chain for the leftovers. The Alpha eat's till they're full so no reason to take food from those farther down the line. There's a trainer out of New Zealand that recommends having all the family members take the bowl and pretend to eat from it before putting it down for the dog, for the first couple of months. We did that but I can't say for sure wether it works, but it's easy to do and doesn't seem to hurt anything. If your dog won't tolerate it, you may have pack hierarchy problems that need to be addressed on multiple fronts and not just the isolated issue of feeding. The trainer I'm referring to, calls himself "doggy dan" and he has a couple hundred specific problem oriented videos on his website. Most of his stuff makes sense, some of it's dead wrong. It was worth binge watching for the 3 day $1 trial to get some good tips.

 

[tim_s_adams]

The first day I got the two shepherds I got as puppies, I gave them both a high value food item and took it away. They both growled. They both got yelled at in my loudest voice with a light slap. I repeated the process immediately and several times for the next week and after the first scolding they never growled at me. The second week I had other members of the family take the food away also. The first person to try it, other than myself, would get a growl. I would immediately yell and scold. After that I don't think either dog ever growled at anyone in regard to food and both were/are extremely gentle taking food from anyone's hand, especially children. I would test them once a month for the first year and once or twice a year after that. Never a problem. I frequently will give a couple of strokes on the back when eating and it causes 0 reaction. It's so common for dog bites to occur when you mix children, food and dogs, that you have to be proactive and train them to be tolerant as soon as you can. I generally don't use much negative reinforcement but this is an exception. It's so rare I raise my voice with the dogs, that when I do, it makes a major impact, so I save it for the worst infractions.


In regard to showing dominance by taking food away, I think wolf behavior is for the highest ranking wolves to eat their fill first and then it goes down the chain for the leftovers. The Alpha eat's till they're full so no reason to take food from those farther down the line. There's a trainer out of New Zealand that recommends having all the family members take the bowl and pretend to eat from it before putting it down for the dog, for the first couple of months. We did that but I can't say for sure wether it works, but it's easy to do and doesn't seem to hurt anything. If your dog won't tolerate it, you may have pack hierarchy problems that need to be addressed on multiple fronts and not just the isolated issue of feeding. The trainer I'm referring to, calls himself "doggy dan" and he has a couple hundred specific problem oriented videos on his website. Most of his stuff makes sense, some of it's dead wrong. It was worth binge watching for the 3 day $1 trial to get some good tips.

Wow! I've been around dogs most of the past 50 yrs, and believe me I've seen some of the weirdest things "seem" to work in training. But thankfully, knowledge and techniques have come a long way in that time too! What you described doing to your puppies isn't training, per se, it's dominance, it's bullying plain and simple. While in many cases it will work, there will be dogs that will hold a grudge and turn on you in the future when they gain enough maturity and confidence! IMHO, even more importantly, it is totally unnecessary! All anyone needs to do is to show the dog they have no reason to distrust you! That's how you end up with a dog that will literally lay down its own life to protect you or save you from a fire...a partner, not a slave!

Good Luck to you and your puppies! I hope it all works out well...

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

So I guess you're in the camp of "don't take things from your dog." I'm not. While I appreciate your point of view, it does me no good. There are times when I need to take things from him for his safety and/or mine and if I can't without being bitten, then there's a real problem.

There is no "don't take things away from your dog" camp. That is a gross misunderstanding of what this thread is about, which is a discussion of how to avoid or prevent resource guarding issues at mealtime. What I, and others, have said is that giving your dog its food, taking it away, and giving it back is not the best way to teach your dog not to resource guard. Hovering over them, sticking your hands in their bowl while they're eating, or pestering them in other ways is not the best way to teach your dog not to resource guard. And that doing so, may, with some dogs who are already predisposed to guarding issues for whatever reason, exacerbate the problem rather than alleviate it.

What that doesn't mean is that we never take things away from our dogs, just that we don't do it capriciously, to teach them a lesson, or whatever. When necessary, I take things from my dogs all the time, and they've never growled at me or tried to bite me, not one of the 6 GSDs we've had over the past 22 years. Why? Some of them because that's just not how they're wired, but at least one that I mentioned before I thought had the potential to become a guarder so I worked on establishing a relationship of trust. When I give you a meal, it's yours. I do require a polite sit with eye contact while I set down the bowl, and then release the dog to eat, and when they're puppies I do some hand feeding out of the bowl before giving it to them. Lots and lots of impulse control work. When I give you a bully stick, it's yours. I did make an exception to this recently with Cava (8 months old), she had a salmon NoHide chew for well over an hour and wasn't even halfway through with it so I wanted to put the rest away for later. I tossed a handful of treats on the floor and when she dropped it to get the treats, I picked it up and put it where she couldn't get to it. No big deal.

Here's a partial list of things I took away from Halo over the years:
Eyeglasses
TV remotes
Potholders (several)
Placemats
A block of cheddar cheese in a ziplok bag that she stole off the kitchen counter while I was cutting up treats for nosework class. I didn't even see her take it, I heard the sound of crunching plastic in the living room, and found her laying on the floor chewing it, wagging her tail at me and looking extremely pleased with herself. I walked up to her, pried open her jaws and removed the bag.
Keefer's bully stick. Halo would finish hers first and then try to scheme Keef out of his. Sometimes that worked, so we'd go get it from her and give it back to him. No growl, no attempted bite.
Kitchen knives. Yep, stolen right off the counter, and I have a photo to prove it.

And, have you ever played fetch with a dog and the dog won't give it back to you? I threw a frisbee and he took it to chew it and it was getting shredded. He wasn't spitting the pieces out. He was swallowing them. So at that point I have to take the frisbee away from him. When I got close to get it, he chomped down on my hand. Unacceptable. "Stop taking stuff from your dog"...is not an option. If you've read any of my other postings, I mentioned once that he ate 2 feet of a paracord leash and I had to rush to the emergency hospital to have him induced to vomit. All 2 feet of it came out in big chunks. If I let it go, it would have clogged his system because it would've expanded in his intestines. Then we would've been talking about life or death and thousands of dollars worth of surgery. So I think you should understand by now why I have to be able to take things away from him.

I completely agree that it's unacceptable for him to bite you when you take away his frisbee. If this were my dog, I wouldn't be throwing frisbees for him at all. If he's not going to bring it back, if he's going to chew it up and eat the pieces, I'd find another toy. Especially since it's so high value that he's willing to bite you to prevent it from being taken away. High value toys shouldn't be left laying around, you can bring them out to play and then put them away when you're done. I like to work with toys that I can maintain possession of such as balls on a rope, or tug toys. I train them to out before we even start throwing it. Tug, tug, tug, "out", reward with a treat, then tug some more. Or trade one toy for a different toy. Work on outing the ball for a treat, then give back the ball. Rinse, repeat.

When that's solid, put him on a long line if you're in a large area where he can easily evade you to keep the ball, and if he won't come back with the ball, haul him in. And anything chewable should be put away where he can't reach it, or he should be put away when you're not able to directly supervise and prevent him from getting into stuff.

 

[Scotibs]

I have no problem with e-collars and the like - I was just trying to point out the irony of someone saying they don't want to "bother" a dog eating but don't see a little jolt to the neck as a bother. I feel the potential danger involved with a dog biting or snapping at a child is worth the "bother" (if you can call it that). I don't feel I bothered my GSD. I hardly do it now. Maybe once a week I'll walk by and pet her cheek to make sure we're still good. Also, I never took anything away or made it negative. I just pet her or add food. This topic always interests me because it seems like such a simple thing to prevent and I would've never thought of it as controversial. I read a bit online and it seems I've done some of things recommended without even realizing it. For example - she's always eaten in the middle of the room with us either while we're eating or while we're preparing dinner. So she's used to people around her. Anyway, good luck to all!

 

[Magwart]

I think wolf behavior is for the highest ranking wolves to eat their fill first and then it goes down the chain for the leftovers.

1. Dogs aren't wolves. They've been domesticated for 10s of thousands of years.


2. Wolves don't do that. What you've heard of "dominance" is mostly wrong -- based on studies in the 1920s through 40s on captive animals, including those who were unrelated to each other. Wild wolf packs are families -- mom and dad are the oldest and live with their offspring unless adult males peel off to form their own packs. I've seen most of the pack on a carcass at once in my wolf-watching at Yellowstone. They pack needs to be strong to fend off other invading packs and hunt successfully, so you simply won't see an alpha gorging and leaving only scraps for the rest. They hunt to provide for others, including weaker individuals. Both males and females will regurgitate mouthfuls of food for the very young too and even for adult females who are stuck at the den nursing or defending a litter while the pack is out -- effectively sharing and giving up food, even in times of scarcity. Alpha also wolves don't have to "bully" their pack -- they're incredibly nurturing, family-oriented naturally. They play with their young and may even roll around with them, quite to the contrary of what the alpha-trainers think they do. Yes, they roll for their pups! They're confident enough to play and goof and let the pups jump on top of themselves with them without being "threatened" that their status will be diminished.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/why-everything-you-know-about-wolf-packs-is-wrong-502754629#!


My favorite wolf at Yellowstone the last time I was there was an all-black wolf who had had peeled off of his pack and been alone a long time...until he encountered a female with young pups whose mate had been killed. She was having trouble providing for the pups. He adopted them and helped her raise some other sire's pups! He didn't dominate his way into leading a pack -- he was a good provider, had a wonderful sense of humor, was tolerant and doting on the pups, rolling around and being totally silly with them. He and this female eventually emerged as a "power couple" in the valley, producing their own litters, with a strong pack that took territory from his old pack.



Go to Yellowstone in the deep of winter and watch them for a week, and have your mind blown!