Okay I went to the dog park yesterday to hangout with some friends and we came across the discussion about what's the correct size for German shepherds. I read that back when German shepherds was originated they were big that was my argument and the other gentlemen said no German shepherds are suppose to be 70 pounds and under which argument is true??!!!! because I read once German shepherds came to America they was breed out of its original size
ILoveBella478
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And how many times has the Standard been re-written since the original one written by Stephanitz? Look back over the history and when there is a change in power at the top of an organization, the Standard gets re-written or the parts of the Standard that are not the flavor of the day, gets ignored.
By the way, when Max imposed and rigged the selection of Klodo many of the breeders of true working dogs stopped participating in the trails and sold their stock off. So for 30 years prior to Klodo, breeders produced magnificent German shepherds and Max picked them Champions. But when the lines that were winning were deviant from his beloved Horand, he disliked those dogs with a passion. So for 30 years, dogs were bred outside of the Original Standard to the point that Max even changed the height to a taller dog than he originally wanted because the best dogs were taller and were identified as Champions by the breed creator.
To be blind and in denial about the history of the German shepherd has put this breed on the road to hades. JMHO
By the way, when Max imposed and rigged the selection of Klodo many of the breeders of true working dogs stopped participating in the trails and sold their stock off. So for 30 years prior to Klodo, breeders produced magnificent German shepherds and Max picked them Champions. But when the lines that were winning were deviant from his beloved Horand, he disliked those dogs with a passion. So for 30 years, dogs were bred outside of the Original Standard to the point that Max even changed the height to a taller dog than he originally wanted because the best dogs were taller and were identified as Champions by the breed creator.
To be blind and in denial about the history of the German shepherd has put this breed on the road to hades. JMHO
I don't now or have ever considered a GSD a medium size dog. Once they are past 60 pounds that is large to me. Most GSDs are over 60 pounds. For workability I can see how size matters and why the standard is what it is, but for someone that owns them as a companion I'm more interested in the temperament and that standard. Just my personal thoughts.
Do you know what's really stupid? I am the one arguing for the standard.
My darling Sabi was over size at 82lbs and 27", yet she proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that she could work, not compete but WORK, without breaking down, for many years.
My old man is just over at 90-95lbs, and nearing his 13th birthday is still challenging me and scaling fences.
My sweet little Shadow is a perfectly within standard bitch, and is just a pet.
Form must follow function.
My darling Sabi was over size at 82lbs and 27", yet she proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that she could work, not compete but WORK, without breaking down, for many years.
My old man is just over at 90-95lbs, and nearing his 13th birthday is still challenging me and scaling fences.
My sweet little Shadow is a perfectly within standard bitch, and is just a pet.
Form must follow function.
Specifically looking to buy an extremely over-sized dog, drives the market so that breeders who are looking to sell whatever sells, will breed specifically for over-sized dogs. This hurts the breed.
We aren't saying your dog is not a real GSD. We are not saying it is unworthy of being a pet, or even unworthy of doing some sort of work. But we are saying that hunting for this aspect hurts the breed, and if you want a dog that is 50% larger than the breed you want should be, why not look into other breeds who are supposed to be that large?
We aren't saying your dog is not a real GSD. We are not saying it is unworthy of being a pet, or even unworthy of doing some sort of work. But we are saying that hunting for this aspect hurts the breed, and if you want a dog that is 50% larger than the breed you want should be, why not look into other breeds who are supposed to be that large?
I find it funny that the people constantly quoting Stephanitz about the breed standard, are the same ones that refuse his temperament test as the preferred way of proving breedworthiness.
But this is America, and accepting one paragraph of something while completely ignoring the others is a very acceptable thing to do.
But this is America, and accepting one paragraph of something while completely ignoring the others is a very acceptable thing to do.
I'm totally down for his temperament test.
And yes, I did say those that desire extremely oversized dogs hurt the breed. And I'll gladly say it again. Read my reasonings for it. Decreased agility, increased strain on joints, decreased work life, and typically decreased lifespan. For the rare 130 lb shepherd that lives to be 13 with no health problems - the exception is not the rule.
Just because you're offended, does not mean you're right
And yes, I did say those that desire extremely oversized dogs hurt the breed. And I'll gladly say it again. Read my reasonings for it. Decreased agility, increased strain on joints, decreased work life, and typically decreased lifespan. For the rare 130 lb shepherd that lives to be 13 with no health problems - the exception is not the rule.
Just because you're offended, does not mean you're right
The problem with these discussions is that people take these things way too personally…like those of us that “don’t like” oversized dogs, are talking about YOUR exact dog. It’s not that at all…it’s a way bigger macro thought process. A single owner…might own 4-5 GSD in their life time. If you own those 5 GSD, you’re not really affecting the breed that greatly. No one really cares what kind of dog you like/choose to own. Many times, the issue is that as a buyer, you’re supporting a breeder, and therefore telling them that there is a market for the dogs they’re breeding and that they should keep doing it. On a macro level, that is still a very small effect on the breed as a whole.
Now…a breeder that is constantly producing bigger and bigger dogs. That affects the breed much more than a single owner. Say that breeder has 5 litters a year, that’s 40-50 puppies. Over a life time? That’s a lot of dogs…can swing things.
This is more why “traditionalists” try to keep people away from such breeders. The breed is supposed to be a working breed, 115lb dogs, can’t work. And sorry, the “I just want a pet” thing doesn’t work here, if you “Just want a pet” you can get that in another breed. If you want a GSD, you should want the kind that gave the GSD the reputation that is the reason you want a GSD in the first place…not some watered down version that looks like that GSD but acts like something completely different. Those that claim their dogs have “temperament for days” probably have a very limited knowledge and expectation of good temperament. Most pet owners think that as long as their dog doesn’t react, bite, or do anything aggressive in “normal” situations, the dog has good temperament. Many of them have never tested their dog beyond its own yard or maybe the nearest city park. I’m extremely happy for those owners/handlers, but that doesn’t mean their dog has the proper temperament for a working dog. Which is what this breed is supposed to be.
There are very few outliers that I have seen which can work. I’ll keep oversized females out of this discussion because they still tend to be “working weight.” An 80lbs female, is still about the size of a normal sized male, and so as long as the drive is there, the dog will have the muscle and structure to move fast and the agility necessary to perform the work that’s asked of it. I have not seen too many males, over the standard, that perform with power and drive. There seems to be a weight and height at which the dogs just don’t move the way you’d like them to. Are there outliers that still move amazingly fast and quick at a higher weight? Absolutely…but in general, you see dogs over 26” and 90lbs slow down and not be able to compete with their smaller relatives.
I also think that “in general” you don’t see the breeders that are advertising “over-sized dogs” working their stock. Those of us that have been around this forum, and in the GSD world for even a few years, have seen enough of those websites and breeders to know that it’s rare to see a breeder who advertises their dogs in that way, test their dogs in any way that even Stephanitz himself would accept. This is why you tend to see the comments you do on these threads…people don’t expect much from those breeders.
Now…a breeder that is constantly producing bigger and bigger dogs. That affects the breed much more than a single owner. Say that breeder has 5 litters a year, that’s 40-50 puppies. Over a life time? That’s a lot of dogs…can swing things.
This is more why “traditionalists” try to keep people away from such breeders. The breed is supposed to be a working breed, 115lb dogs, can’t work. And sorry, the “I just want a pet” thing doesn’t work here, if you “Just want a pet” you can get that in another breed. If you want a GSD, you should want the kind that gave the GSD the reputation that is the reason you want a GSD in the first place…not some watered down version that looks like that GSD but acts like something completely different. Those that claim their dogs have “temperament for days” probably have a very limited knowledge and expectation of good temperament. Most pet owners think that as long as their dog doesn’t react, bite, or do anything aggressive in “normal” situations, the dog has good temperament. Many of them have never tested their dog beyond its own yard or maybe the nearest city park. I’m extremely happy for those owners/handlers, but that doesn’t mean their dog has the proper temperament for a working dog. Which is what this breed is supposed to be.
There are very few outliers that I have seen which can work. I’ll keep oversized females out of this discussion because they still tend to be “working weight.” An 80lbs female, is still about the size of a normal sized male, and so as long as the drive is there, the dog will have the muscle and structure to move fast and the agility necessary to perform the work that’s asked of it. I have not seen too many males, over the standard, that perform with power and drive. There seems to be a weight and height at which the dogs just don’t move the way you’d like them to. Are there outliers that still move amazingly fast and quick at a higher weight? Absolutely…but in general, you see dogs over 26” and 90lbs slow down and not be able to compete with their smaller relatives.
I also think that “in general” you don’t see the breeders that are advertising “over-sized dogs” working their stock. Those of us that have been around this forum, and in the GSD world for even a few years, have seen enough of those websites and breeders to know that it’s rare to see a breeder who advertises their dogs in that way, test their dogs in any way that even Stephanitz himself would accept. This is why you tend to see the comments you do on these threads…people don’t expect much from those breeders.
:thumbup:
You "purist" you.
BTW in blue, to head off some of the comments I envision will be popping up. 115 pd dogs can work. *Some* working Rotties out there. Pyrenees working too, have to define the type of work they are suited to, which varies.
In red, exactly.
You "purist" you.
BTW in blue, to head off some of the comments I envision will be popping up. 115 pd dogs can work. *Some* working Rotties out there. Pyrenees working too, have to define the type of work they are suited to, which varies.
In red, exactly.
I, for one, won't promote or support BYBs, puppy mills and breeders who are breeding specifically for sizes out of standard or one color. (sorry WGSD lovers.....it's not that I'm against white coats per-se just that it narrows the gene pool to select for it or any specific coat color).
I will continue to educate anyone I bump into who opens the door to that conversation. As I was educated here and by others more knowledgeable then myself. I do believe, thanks to the internet/social media the message is getting out more and more.
I will continue to educate anyone I bump into who opens the door to that conversation. As I was educated here and by others more knowledgeable then myself. I do believe, thanks to the internet/social media the message is getting out more and more.
IMO, health is the big issue. If a dog is so oversize that he will inevitably suffer from structure breakdown. It's a bad breeding.
I would hope that the GSD "purist" would be more concerned about the many health problems before turning their attention to size.
There should be some type of online registry where people can report what type of health problem their dog has and what the pedigree is. Open disclosure may help keep breeders from selling pups with so many health problems.
I would hope that the GSD "purist" would be more concerned about the many health problems before turning their attention to size.
There should be some type of online registry where people can report what type of health problem their dog has and what the pedigree is. Open disclosure may help keep breeders from selling pups with so many health problems.
Whoa.
I don't think it's true that 'traditionalists' are loosing the battle. Look how many people come here looking for WLs because they never get HD. (ugh)
Yeah that's wrong too but it shows the tide is shifting and awareness is growing.
I don't think it's true that 'traditionalists' are loosing the battle. Look how many people come here looking for WLs because they never get HD. (ugh)
Yeah that's wrong too but it shows the tide is shifting and awareness is growing.
What Max said. With that, I'm off to now to fight against the pink fuzzy bunny eared GSD breeders.
I thought I'd pass this picture along.
It shows the German Shepherd Standard
of way back, Then and Now.
![Image]()
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It shows the German Shepherd Standard
of way back, Then and Now.
Basically, we can't give you a list of "Good OS breeders" because we obviously don't think they exist!
If I were to buy a dog for schutzhund, let's say. And he's 32" tall and 130 lbs. Lean, healthy. Great temperament. I'll train and title, train and title. And that dog, I 100% promise you, will have to be retired by the time he is 5 or 6. That large of a body undergoing that training and impact can not withstand for as long. That's not an opinion. That is a medical fact. Trust me. I work with board certified veterinary surgeons. I see the damage and strain in many large dogs every day. There's a reason you rarely see a chihuahua with crippling hip dysplasia.
Meanwhile, my trainer's 50lb malinois is 7 yrs old and looking at national competitions next year. Physically still going strong. That dog will work until he's 9 or 10, easy. Because he's small. He's light. There is not nearly as much impact on the joints or spine.
So no, I will NEVER think there is a "good" breeder producing 100+ lb dogs consistently and on purpose. I don't care if they're OFA excellent, DM clear, IPO1. That dog will not last as long in any kind of sport or true work. Not opinion. Fact.
And if you don't see a problem with producing dogs with decreased working ability and potentially lifespans, then I'm sorry for that.
If I were to buy a dog for schutzhund, let's say. And he's 32" tall and 130 lbs. Lean, healthy. Great temperament. I'll train and title, train and title. And that dog, I 100% promise you, will have to be retired by the time he is 5 or 6. That large of a body undergoing that training and impact can not withstand for as long. That's not an opinion. That is a medical fact. Trust me. I work with board certified veterinary surgeons. I see the damage and strain in many large dogs every day. There's a reason you rarely see a chihuahua with crippling hip dysplasia.
Meanwhile, my trainer's 50lb malinois is 7 yrs old and looking at national competitions next year. Physically still going strong. That dog will work until he's 9 or 10, easy. Because he's small. He's light. There is not nearly as much impact on the joints or spine.
So no, I will NEVER think there is a "good" breeder producing 100+ lb dogs consistently and on purpose. I don't care if they're OFA excellent, DM clear, IPO1. That dog will not last as long in any kind of sport or true work. Not opinion. Fact.
And if you don't see a problem with producing dogs with decreased working ability and potentially lifespans, then I'm sorry for that.
What elitist attitude? What downfall of the GSD? It’s the American Burger King “have it your way” ideal that you’re unwilling to get rid of. At least you admit that you couldn’t care less about a standard and just want a dog that looks like a German Shepherd. Basically, you want the “King Shepherd.” So why don’t you just look for that?
I was a “pet owner” when I purchased my first GSD, but I did my research (really broad mostly with Wikipedia, akc.org, and some written books), saw that they should be under 90lbs, have a certain temperament, what they’re meant to do, and bought a dog based on that as ALL OF THOSE TRAITS FIT WHAT I WANTED IN A DOG. I didn’t make a list of things I wanted, then tried to find a dog BASED OFF INCORRECT PHYSICAL APPEARANCE, that fit what I was looking for. If I wanted a 130lbs dog, I would’ve gone with a mastiff of some sort, or a mountain dog, not hunted down a breeder to make me a 130lbs GSD.
I’m not sure what you mean by “standards for breeders for pet line GSD.” What you don’t get is that even those that breed for working temperaments, have dogs in their litters that don’t have the high level of drive necessary for work. Of course all breeders want dogs that can work, but there are probably only 2-3 in each litter that are capable of “real world work” or “national level sport.” The rest of them, just won’t have the drive that it takes to do that. Those are perfect family dogs. If you think that a working dog can’t cuddle…you just haven’t been around enough of them, too busy reading highly biased internet articles that already match your current opinion, instead of getting out and meeting dogs. There is no need for them to be 120lbs. What I look for in a breeder is that all their puppies are capable of doing club level IPO. That if the owner wants to try IPO, the temperament of the dog doesn’t deny the owner that opportunity. I’ve seen it in my club…people show up with dogs, not bred to work, and although they have the passion for the sport, their dogs aren’t capable. So for the next decade, these people won’t be enjoying a hobby they thought they had a passion for. It’s sad to see people get “tricked” by GSD breeders who sell dogs based off of a reputation that the breed has earned, and when they get their final product, the people have nothing close to what they expected.
What do you want in a dog? Why do you want a GSD? I guarantee you that it has something to do with the reputation they have earned over the last century as K9s, military dogs, well rounded protectors and guard dogs. But most people don’t want that anymore, they just want something that looks like it, so that the guy across the street that they perceive as a threat will think the big bad dog they’re walking next to them will bite the guy if he does something, but in reality, their dog will probably just run the other way and leave the handler to deal with the threat. And in America…the bigger, the badder, the better. Just wait for it…we’ll hear from the “It’s my job to protect my dog not the other way around” crowd soon enough.
It’s sad really, that after 3 years of being on this forum, you haven’t even taken the time to learn about what the SV standards might be, or what the breed standard is. It really wouldn’t take much time to learn, but you don’t care, and you’ll never care. So I really don’t care what kind of dog you want and what your opinion is of anything to do with the breed itself or the standard, as you’ve admitted that you prefer that your opinions aren’t based in any sort of fact. I’m happy that you at least admit that you’ll support any BYB willing to make you the dog that you want instead of trying to better the breed.
I was a “pet owner” when I purchased my first GSD, but I did my research (really broad mostly with Wikipedia, akc.org, and some written books), saw that they should be under 90lbs, have a certain temperament, what they’re meant to do, and bought a dog based on that as ALL OF THOSE TRAITS FIT WHAT I WANTED IN A DOG. I didn’t make a list of things I wanted, then tried to find a dog BASED OFF INCORRECT PHYSICAL APPEARANCE, that fit what I was looking for. If I wanted a 130lbs dog, I would’ve gone with a mastiff of some sort, or a mountain dog, not hunted down a breeder to make me a 130lbs GSD.
I’m not sure what you mean by “standards for breeders for pet line GSD.” What you don’t get is that even those that breed for working temperaments, have dogs in their litters that don’t have the high level of drive necessary for work. Of course all breeders want dogs that can work, but there are probably only 2-3 in each litter that are capable of “real world work” or “national level sport.” The rest of them, just won’t have the drive that it takes to do that. Those are perfect family dogs. If you think that a working dog can’t cuddle…you just haven’t been around enough of them, too busy reading highly biased internet articles that already match your current opinion, instead of getting out and meeting dogs. There is no need for them to be 120lbs. What I look for in a breeder is that all their puppies are capable of doing club level IPO. That if the owner wants to try IPO, the temperament of the dog doesn’t deny the owner that opportunity. I’ve seen it in my club…people show up with dogs, not bred to work, and although they have the passion for the sport, their dogs aren’t capable. So for the next decade, these people won’t be enjoying a hobby they thought they had a passion for. It’s sad to see people get “tricked” by GSD breeders who sell dogs based off of a reputation that the breed has earned, and when they get their final product, the people have nothing close to what they expected.
What do you want in a dog? Why do you want a GSD? I guarantee you that it has something to do with the reputation they have earned over the last century as K9s, military dogs, well rounded protectors and guard dogs. But most people don’t want that anymore, they just want something that looks like it, so that the guy across the street that they perceive as a threat will think the big bad dog they’re walking next to them will bite the guy if he does something, but in reality, their dog will probably just run the other way and leave the handler to deal with the threat. And in America…the bigger, the badder, the better. Just wait for it…we’ll hear from the “It’s my job to protect my dog not the other way around” crowd soon enough.
It’s sad really, that after 3 years of being on this forum, you haven’t even taken the time to learn about what the SV standards might be, or what the breed standard is. It really wouldn’t take much time to learn, but you don’t care, and you’ll never care. So I really don’t care what kind of dog you want and what your opinion is of anything to do with the breed itself or the standard, as you’ve admitted that you prefer that your opinions aren’t based in any sort of fact. I’m happy that you at least admit that you’ll support any BYB willing to make you the dog that you want instead of trying to better the breed.
Shepherdmom, really, this won’t get you anywhere. If you’re getting “ticked” you should just realize that nothing you say, will change the opinions of those of us that care about the breed standard to the level that we do. Those of us who will more than likely affect the breed at a much greater level than you owning your 4-5 shepherds will ever. Own the dogs that you do, support the breeders you want to support, at the end of the day, it’s not going to affect me, or the breed in any way.
The dogs that affect the breed are the ones that are constantly bred and have hundreds of progeny. Generally, those are within standard, working or show dogs. The dogs at the USCA nationals, the dogs at the WDC, the dogs at next months Sieger Show. Those dogs will have a much greater effect on the breed than that random guy down the street throwing his 100lbs+ GSDs together once a year. So I’m not worried at all about those dogs, or those breeders.
If someone comes on this forum and asks for an opinion, I’ll try to educate them, I’m not going to just give them options that match their IMO incorrect view of the breed and the standard. If they don’t listen, get “ticked,” and go out to buy some BYB dog, I don’t care. More than likely, they came on this forum just looking for acceptance anyways rather than a true education. They’ll learn once they take that dog and try doing some dog sport with it, or try to compete with it in some other way. That’s when they’ll learn the incorrectness of their original view/opinion. If they never do that with their dog…then it really doesn’t matter, that person won’t have any sort of real effect on where the breed goes.
The dogs that affect the breed are the ones that are constantly bred and have hundreds of progeny. Generally, those are within standard, working or show dogs. The dogs at the USCA nationals, the dogs at the WDC, the dogs at next months Sieger Show. Those dogs will have a much greater effect on the breed than that random guy down the street throwing his 100lbs+ GSDs together once a year. So I’m not worried at all about those dogs, or those breeders.
If someone comes on this forum and asks for an opinion, I’ll try to educate them, I’m not going to just give them options that match their IMO incorrect view of the breed and the standard. If they don’t listen, get “ticked,” and go out to buy some BYB dog, I don’t care. More than likely, they came on this forum just looking for acceptance anyways rather than a true education. They’ll learn once they take that dog and try doing some dog sport with it, or try to compete with it in some other way. That’s when they’ll learn the incorrectness of their original view/opinion. If they never do that with their dog…then it really doesn’t matter, that person won’t have any sort of real effect on where the breed goes.
I'm not trying to get anywhere this is the endless argument that never goes away. Like you try to educate me about standards, I'm just trying to educate those like you into the emotion of John Q pet owner.
With the GSD being the number 2 dog nothing is going to change anytime soon.
Comments that say "owners of OS GSD's are harming the breed" are hurtful and will not ever help in the quest to educate anyone. When I see comments like that I will always jump in and stand up for the average pet owner who participates here. As diverse as this board is I feel the pet parent is under represented and we often lose our voice or get out shouted among the stronger willed sport/show/breeders and workers when in fact we are the ones who need a place like this the most.
If Max were here today, what percentage of dogs in existence would he cull out?
You are defending the breed standard (that we will never know if it would have continued to evolve) which represented current wants and needs for a very brief period of time long ago.
Do you believe that 95% of the GSD's today would be culled because they are not within standard? Or at the very least, would you like restricted breeding only allowed for those that pass the standard (that would include the ability to do the work of herding etc, sound health and correct structure)?
How practical do you think it is to stand resolutely on something that very likely would have evolved to be different? Don't you believe that he would have continued to refine the breed? Do you think that he ever dreamed that this dog would still be in the top 3 most popular all these decades later (and it isn't because most are herders or in LE)?
If Max saw that 95% of his breed today are not owned by shepherds or law enforcement, but by the every day person that he would disapprove? Given what life most GSD's live today, do you think he would have an absolute tizzy fit with oversize dogs if their health remained sound?
You are defending the breed standard (that we will never know if it would have continued to evolve) which represented current wants and needs for a very brief period of time long ago.
Do you believe that 95% of the GSD's today would be culled because they are not within standard? Or at the very least, would you like restricted breeding only allowed for those that pass the standard (that would include the ability to do the work of herding etc, sound health and correct structure)?
How practical do you think it is to stand resolutely on something that very likely would have evolved to be different? Don't you believe that he would have continued to refine the breed? Do you think that he ever dreamed that this dog would still be in the top 3 most popular all these decades later (and it isn't because most are herders or in LE)?
If Max saw that 95% of his breed today are not owned by shepherds or law enforcement, but by the every day person that he would disapprove? Given what life most GSD's live today, do you think he would have an absolute tizzy fit with oversize dogs if their health remained sound?
There are lots of "pet people" that have a dog that is within standard. I am a pet person. I have a working line puppy whose parents are well within the standard. I also have a rescue pit mix that is a genetic mess because of backyard breeding. Because of that, I have a huge respect for those breeding for what the standard is. That goes for both size/structure and temperament. Do I love Roxy any less for not being a great representation of her breed? Of course not. Would it be a shame if she was bred just because someone liked her size? Yes!
I am new to German Shepherds, and obviously still have a lot to learn, but I'm here, trying to learn as much as I can from people who really know what they're talking about. I really don't think anyone set out to offend people whose dogs don't fit the standard. They just have the experience (and facts!) to back up their opinions.
I hope no one reads this and takes offense. I'm sure all your dogs are wonderful and you love them, and at the end of the day, that's what's really important. I know I love both of mine, even though one is more well-bred than the other.
I am new to German Shepherds, and obviously still have a lot to learn, but I'm here, trying to learn as much as I can from people who really know what they're talking about. I really don't think anyone set out to offend people whose dogs don't fit the standard. They just have the experience (and facts!) to back up their opinions.
I hope no one reads this and takes offense. I'm sure all your dogs are wonderful and you love them, and at the end of the day, that's what's really important. I know I love both of mine, even though one is more well-bred than the other.
Here's the thing...stop taking these discussions so personally. Sure, if someone says something bad about YOUR dog, feel free to get upset. But that rarely happens on this forum. Why is it wrong for someone to say the "idea" of breeding OS GSD is wrong? Where would the fun be if we all had the same opinion and just accepted things as they are? Where would there be any opportunity to learn?
I don't care if people have OS GSD. I'm not telling them they need to be culled, or that they're something less than what the people think they are. Do I think they should be bred? All depends on if you go through the temperament testing that I agree with and support. I'm personally not one to rule a dog out of breeding just due to its size. Would I breed to it? Would I want a puppy out of that dog? Depends on what I see when I watch that dog work. If it's not up to my standard, I won't, but I'm sure it might be up to other people's standard and there are no issues with that at all. As long as the dog can perform the work, who is anyone to say that it's not worth breeding? Like Jack's Dad mentioned...the work was meant as a test, not a competition. If the dog passes the test, it means it has something to offer to the future generation...
I don't care if people have OS GSD. I'm not telling them they need to be culled, or that they're something less than what the people think they are. Do I think they should be bred? All depends on if you go through the temperament testing that I agree with and support. I'm personally not one to rule a dog out of breeding just due to its size. Would I breed to it? Would I want a puppy out of that dog? Depends on what I see when I watch that dog work. If it's not up to my standard, I won't, but I'm sure it might be up to other people's standard and there are no issues with that at all. As long as the dog can perform the work, who is anyone to say that it's not worth breeding? Like Jack's Dad mentioned...the work was meant as a test, not a competition. If the dog passes the test, it means it has something to offer to the future generation...
I don't mind at all that there are people here that are very strict in their desire to stay well within the breed standard. It is those few that try to cram their preferences down other peoples throats that get to me. This sprinkled with comments as to a posters ignorance if they don't change their beliefs to align with yours is IMO very prevalent on this site with a few.
Last month I posted a thread that asked the question "Is my dog a good representative of the breed"? I went into further detail that my question was only asked in the context as in casual conversation on the street. I know she is OS and not within the breed standard.
The conversation "blew up" in to becoming one of breed standard. 6 pages later, I got the information I was looking for in a couple of little posts that were direct and told me exactly what I needed to know. I learned a lot from those two posts. I will now be able, if asked, to explain that she is OS and has a problem with her back line and rear angle. If they want more than that I will refer them to the GSD standard.
What that post attracted were the 2 top standard thumpers (guess who). 6 pages of junk that came no where near answering my question. I'm not sure if they even read my question, it was however a great springboard for a thumpin' session.
Last month I posted a thread that asked the question "Is my dog a good representative of the breed"? I went into further detail that my question was only asked in the context as in casual conversation on the street. I know she is OS and not within the breed standard.
The conversation "blew up" in to becoming one of breed standard. 6 pages later, I got the information I was looking for in a couple of little posts that were direct and told me exactly what I needed to know. I learned a lot from those two posts. I will now be able, if asked, to explain that she is OS and has a problem with her back line and rear angle. If they want more than that I will refer them to the GSD standard.
What that post attracted were the 2 top standard thumpers (guess who). 6 pages of junk that came no where near answering my question. I'm not sure if they even read my question, it was however a great springboard for a thumpin' session.
There we go, someone who wants to actually discuss something...nope, not at all. Resorting to name calling. Guess that's the way people discuss things these days. When someone disagrees with you, you call them names.
I'm not sure how anyone can "cram" anything down anyone's throat over the internet. There's no gun to your head, there's no knife to your throat, no one is forcing you to do anything. People share their opinions. Most people do it very respectfully, others choose to resort to name calling. To each their own.
I'm not sure how anyone can "cram" anything down anyone's throat over the internet. There's no gun to your head, there's no knife to your throat, no one is forcing you to do anything. People share their opinions. Most people do it very respectfully, others choose to resort to name calling. To each their own.
BYB must be name calling then. It is certainly used in that context here. Ignorant is also name calling as is uneducated.
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