Okay I went to the dog park yesterday to hangout with some friends and we came across the discussion about what's the correct size for German shepherds. I read that back when German shepherds was originated they were big that was my argument and the other gentlemen said no German shepherds are suppose to be 70 pounds and under which argument is true??!!!! because I read once German shepherds came to America they was breed out of its original size
ILoveBella478
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The German Shepherd is and always has been a medium sized dog.
FCI Breed Standards - (SV) Size/weight*
Males: Withers height 60 cm to 65 cm; weight 30 kg to 40 kg- 66-88lbs
Females: Withers height 55 cm to 60 cm; weight 22 kg to 32 kg -48-70lbs
Any deviation from this standard is a fault, severity determined by to what extent it impedes the dogs ability to work.
FCI Breed Standards - (SV) Size/weight*
Males: Withers height 60 cm to 65 cm; weight 30 kg to 40 kg- 66-88lbs
Females: Withers height 55 cm to 60 cm; weight 22 kg to 32 kg -48-70lbs
Any deviation from this standard is a fault, severity determined by to what extent it impedes the dogs ability to work.
My guy is "faulty" Over Size Working line GSD but he can still do his "job"...being a family pet...he's pretty good at it! :hug:
Both are grossly over standard. If you use the search function on this site, search..."king shepherds...oversize shepherds....old fashioned german shepherds..." You can see the general thoughts by working line people, show line people, pet people, etc...You will also see that such discussions sometimes went on for 20-35 pages.
I would personally agree with those at the park disagreeing with you. Shepherds aren't supposed to be pushing 100 pounds (or in a lot of the "oversize breeders" cases, well over 100 pounds). There are breeders capitalizing on the "bigger is better" mentality in America, and are pushing the "old fashioned" marketing scheme on many unsuspecting/unknowing pet people. Few (I would argue zero) from either the show world or the working world would ever go to a breeder that advertises "old fashioned/over sized" shepherds. Just my .02, which you can also find in one or two of the old threads on here.
I would personally agree with those at the park disagreeing with you. Shepherds aren't supposed to be pushing 100 pounds (or in a lot of the "oversize breeders" cases, well over 100 pounds). There are breeders capitalizing on the "bigger is better" mentality in America, and are pushing the "old fashioned" marketing scheme on many unsuspecting/unknowing pet people. Few (I would argue zero) from either the show world or the working world would ever go to a breeder that advertises "old fashioned/over sized" shepherds. Just my .02, which you can also find in one or two of the old threads on here.
My girl is oversized per the standard, however, she is not inhibited in work function at all and is highly athletic .. HOWEVER, if I have to log her 86lb bod far I will have issues, lol!
Chip,
Health really isn't the issue OS dogs are just to big to do the job.
A 100+ pounds of GSD is a lot of dog to move if you have to scale a cliff or lift into a tight space!
This is to true! At 85lbs, I can say from experience that lugging Sabi any distance sucked. We had to be able to lift and carry our dogs as part of our fitness test. To many times, I wished Sabs was just a bit lighter.
But the reality is, a large dog is more prone to breaking down over time.
Health really isn't the issue OS dogs are just to big to do the job.
A 100+ pounds of GSD is a lot of dog to move if you have to scale a cliff or lift into a tight space!
This is to true! At 85lbs, I can say from experience that lugging Sabi any distance sucked. We had to be able to lift and carry our dogs as part of our fitness test. To many times, I wished Sabs was just a bit lighter.
But the reality is, a large dog is more prone to breaking down over time.
Midnite went up to just over 100 pounds. I put him on a diet, he is now right around 80 and looks really good IMO. My son thinks he is to skinny but admits that he is probably right where he should be.
The historical record shows that the gsd has not always been a medium sized dog. Study the German shepherd before 1930 and you find many that were "over-sized". After 1930, "over-size" studs could not be listed in the official stud registry - but many breeders kept breeding the "over-sized" German shepherds that continued to " work" (mainly herding) every day. And that is a fact - it is well recorded.
The difference and ease of movement is like night and day with Midnite. At 80 pounds he is still on the bigger side but overall he seems to feel better and I believe it's more healthy for him. When people see him they still think he is big, just not as big as he was.
Max v Stephanitz on conformation
"shy, weak nerved animals are to be marked as injurious to the breed, even as over-bred {over-size}are not true to breed type"
"oversize or bitch-like dogs and the fading of color coat are injurious from the point of view of breeding & are to be marked accordingly"
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Does not look like a large dog to me
"shy, weak nerved animals are to be marked as injurious to the breed, even as over-bred {over-size}are not true to breed type"
"oversize or bitch-like dogs and the fading of color coat are injurious from the point of view of breeding & are to be marked accordingly"
Does not look like a large dog to me
4 weeks ago my pup was 78 lbs and he'll be 8 months on 4/7.
His trainer said he will be full grown at 18 months and not to neuter him till then.
My question is this: I've heard that neutering stunts growth, and if that's true wouldn't it make sense to neuter a dog before it grows too big?
PS. The vet said we could neuter him at 12 months.
His trainer said he will be full grown at 18 months and not to neuter him till then.
My question is this: I've heard that neutering stunts growth, and if that's true wouldn't it make sense to neuter a dog before it grows too big?
PS. The vet said we could neuter him at 12 months.
Findlay it doesn't stunt growth,but there are growth plates in their joints that aren't finished closing until 18 mths.It's best to neuter when that process is complete.
Thank you. That's good to know re growth plates.
We'll wait for the full 18 mos. before neutering Finn.
We'll wait for the full 18 mos. before neutering Finn.
I don't know what is best for females.Some say it's best to spay before the first heat because of an increased risk of certain types of cancer.But that conflicts with the concern about the growth plates!? Samson is a male so I never did more than skim over the spay info. when I was researching.
Actually, if you neuter before the growth plates close, it can delay the closure and the long bones can grow longer, which will lead to a leggy dog, depending on how early with respect to the individual -- when that individual would have reached his adult height. If all GSDs grew at the same rate, reached adult height at say 18 months, then easy, neuter at 20 months and all is good.
The problem is that they grow at different rates.
If someone isn't breeding for oversized dogs, and I mean dogs that are well over 100#, if they are breeding dogs within, or slightly outside of the standard, they can still produce a larger than standard dog, but generally not a dog that is 120#. Which means one of two things is going on. People are deliberately breeding dogs that are grossly oversized to create puppies that will also be, or people are allowing dogs that should be 90 pounds to weigh in at 120. Both of these are just not good, and likely to cause health problems, and both will impede the ability to do the job, one because obesity causes fatigue, injury, and illness; and the other because people who breed for one aspect that is totally outside of the standard, are probably doing so with less or no regard to other important aspects.
There is a section in Farmer Boy, where the father and son are at the fair looking at the horses. The father greatly admires the huge draft horse that someone brought to the fair, saying, "it could pull a barn." The boy who is 8 or 9 years old, says something to the effect, why would we want it to pull a barn, the Morgan can be ridden or driven (paraphrasing here), The father agrees with him, and that it would be a waste to feed all that muscle that is simply not needed.
The German Shepherd Dog needs to be large enough to move the sheep, and to guard the sheep, quick enough to move the sheep, agile enough to move the sheep, beyond that, is a waste of feed, to the poor farmers/shepherds in Germany.
We skip over to police/military work, without which, our breed may have had a short history. The dog has to be large enough to give criminals pause. But if police wanted larger dogs, they wouldn't be moving to Malinois, which are a bit smaller and thinner than GSDs. It is funny, buy my little Babs, who seems small to me, but weighs in between 68 and 72 pounds, actually makes full-grown men nervous. Weird. Maybe it's the upright ears.
Why would you want a 130# dog when a 68 pound bitch backs up adult males?
Now, I have a pup who is 8 months old and 72 pounds. He has huge paws, and I am afraid he will continue to grow, and may break 100. I hope not. How will I pick him up if he hurts himself and I have to lift him into the car. So far, I have been able to manage dogs weighing up to 90 pounds.
I guess I just don't understand the desire for dogs that are grossly over what the standard dictates for the breed. If you get a lean, 100# dog, don't kill him, kind of embarrassing from a breeding perspective, but certainly loveable and will most likely make a great pet. Going out of our way looking for breeder who breed for dogs that are typically over 100#s is encouraging that type of breeding. You have to spend more for food at the minimum, and they do not have 30% more personality than a properly sized dog. Get a leonberger or a mastiff if you want a giant dog. It's not right to build shepherds to double their size because we like them big. It would be like wanting a Chihuahua-sized GSD, and breeding down, down, down to get one. And then when we end up with a 7 pound GSD, being so proud of it, and finding breeders who make the smallest dogs.
Just today at Tractor Supply, I am giving people the thumbs up on Diamond Naturals, of course, I find the two people in the store that have GSDs, and the one's dog is imported and 130#. I thought super-sizing the GSD was an American thing. Guess not.
At some point, we really need to ask ourselves, why? Should we make one with no coat so that people who are allergic and want a hairless GSD will be satisfied? When do we say, this is what the dog is supposed to be, and stick with it?
The problem is that they grow at different rates.
If someone isn't breeding for oversized dogs, and I mean dogs that are well over 100#, if they are breeding dogs within, or slightly outside of the standard, they can still produce a larger than standard dog, but generally not a dog that is 120#. Which means one of two things is going on. People are deliberately breeding dogs that are grossly oversized to create puppies that will also be, or people are allowing dogs that should be 90 pounds to weigh in at 120. Both of these are just not good, and likely to cause health problems, and both will impede the ability to do the job, one because obesity causes fatigue, injury, and illness; and the other because people who breed for one aspect that is totally outside of the standard, are probably doing so with less or no regard to other important aspects.
There is a section in Farmer Boy, where the father and son are at the fair looking at the horses. The father greatly admires the huge draft horse that someone brought to the fair, saying, "it could pull a barn." The boy who is 8 or 9 years old, says something to the effect, why would we want it to pull a barn, the Morgan can be ridden or driven (paraphrasing here), The father agrees with him, and that it would be a waste to feed all that muscle that is simply not needed.
The German Shepherd Dog needs to be large enough to move the sheep, and to guard the sheep, quick enough to move the sheep, agile enough to move the sheep, beyond that, is a waste of feed, to the poor farmers/shepherds in Germany.
We skip over to police/military work, without which, our breed may have had a short history. The dog has to be large enough to give criminals pause. But if police wanted larger dogs, they wouldn't be moving to Malinois, which are a bit smaller and thinner than GSDs. It is funny, buy my little Babs, who seems small to me, but weighs in between 68 and 72 pounds, actually makes full-grown men nervous. Weird. Maybe it's the upright ears.
Why would you want a 130# dog when a 68 pound bitch backs up adult males?
Now, I have a pup who is 8 months old and 72 pounds. He has huge paws, and I am afraid he will continue to grow, and may break 100. I hope not. How will I pick him up if he hurts himself and I have to lift him into the car. So far, I have been able to manage dogs weighing up to 90 pounds.
I guess I just don't understand the desire for dogs that are grossly over what the standard dictates for the breed. If you get a lean, 100# dog, don't kill him, kind of embarrassing from a breeding perspective, but certainly loveable and will most likely make a great pet. Going out of our way looking for breeder who breed for dogs that are typically over 100#s is encouraging that type of breeding. You have to spend more for food at the minimum, and they do not have 30% more personality than a properly sized dog. Get a leonberger or a mastiff if you want a giant dog. It's not right to build shepherds to double their size because we like them big. It would be like wanting a Chihuahua-sized GSD, and breeding down, down, down to get one. And then when we end up with a 7 pound GSD, being so proud of it, and finding breeders who make the smallest dogs.
Just today at Tractor Supply, I am giving people the thumbs up on Diamond Naturals, of course, I find the two people in the store that have GSDs, and the one's dog is imported and 130#. I thought super-sizing the GSD was an American thing. Guess not.
At some point, we really need to ask ourselves, why? Should we make one with no coat so that people who are allergic and want a hairless GSD will be satisfied? When do we say, this is what the dog is supposed to be, and stick with it?
Well when I came on here I had no idea my guy was an OS GSD, He was mine and I thought that's what GSD's looked like...big! (might also explain why the 'Who Pets thing was not really much of a problem with him...not many wanted to get to close in any case!)
My son in law had two GSD's a White and a Black and I was frankly horrified when I saw them??? They looked to me like Coyotes (small) and my guy looked like a wolf (big)????
It took me awhile to realize that my guy was the outlier. Way over breed specs. The standards are pretty clear, the job spec is pretty clear and it makes sense!
Some of us do like our GSD's "freakishly" large as it were and we are glad we have that option! And the test for specs is pretty simple in view...if you can't pick your GSD up...he's to freaking big!!
Simple but accurate!
My son in law had two GSD's a White and a Black and I was frankly horrified when I saw them??? They looked to me like Coyotes (small) and my guy looked like a wolf (big)????
It took me awhile to realize that my guy was the outlier. Way over breed specs. The standards are pretty clear, the job spec is pretty clear and it makes sense!
Some of us do like our GSD's "freakishly" large as it were and we are glad we have that option! And the test for specs is pretty simple in view...if you can't pick your GSD up...he's to freaking big!!
Simple but accurate!
I don't see anything wrong with OS gsds as a variation just like show lines,WG lines,Czech lines,etc. are all variations.Also I like the out of standard colors.
I think we all can agree on what the breed standard is since it's right there in black and white.What we will never agree on is our personal choices on which variant is right for the individual owner.
There's a reason the average lifespan of a great dane is 6-8 years, of a leonberger is 7-9 years, of a neopolitan mastiff is 6-9 years
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