[Jax08]

Well...when my cats kill a mouse, bird or rabbit, I never find any evidence of blood so I"m assuming they eat that and these creatures like to have dinner on my porch so I would notice. Luckily, my dogs have not killed anything so I don't know what they do with the blood.

I wasn't in any meeting for Victor dog food so I can't speak for what was said but IMO, if the nutrition and quality is still there so my dogs still do well on it, and they are trying to keep their prices in a range where normal people can still purchase their product rather than a huge jump in price, more power to them.

And just an FYI...some formulas had such small changes that it should make zero difference in the quality. Beef and rice - one grain was added in front of the pork meal. Protein content went up 1%. That is to small to even notice. Previously 68% protein from meat, now 77%.

Nutro Pro contained blood meal prior to the change. I just took a picture of the bag I have. It was the 4th ingredient, now it's the second. Previously it was 10% protein from grains and veges. Now it's 8% from grains and proteins. Same ingredients, different order.

 

[crittersitter]

Obviously it's your choice to feed the newly formulated Victor or not, loyal (who'd a thought that word would make so many people defensive) to Victor or not. But those that are concerned about the change in formulas should read this: https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/newsevents/cvmupdates/ucm613305.htm

 

[crittersitter]

I did not say people were "blindly loyal", as you quoted. And yes it is my judgement based on what I've seen on this forum over the years that SOME people will remain loyal to Victor and defend whatever changes they make. We are all entitled to our own opinions which by the way are "judgements" based on the facts we see.

 

[Jax08]

LOL Nobody is defensive. Our point is that making a choice to not drop a food based on internet chatter does not make us "loyal...perhaps to a fault" (there I actually DID quote you, before I did a translation based on the implication of your sentence )

BTW...I feed raw to my working dogs. I feed Victor to the Husky and use Victor for training. So definitely no "loyalty" here.

General Post:

Per my friend, who works in the animal food industry, AAFCO made changes in the way things are being labeled. Many foods are having to change their ingredient list so it appears different but there are zero changes to the food. So when you look at your food, Victor or not, make sure you contact the company directly and not just take the word of internet chatter.

 

[Jake78]

I used Victor Lamb and Rice bcs when ours was young, it was the only thing that didn't give him loose poop. After a year and a half we just switched from them even before I heard this, as a trial just for pure cost. Wolfgang won't eat any dry without it being topped with hot chicken so we went to Costco beef formula, since he's already chowing down a whole Costco rotisserie chicken per week anyway on top of his dry. So far so good with the poop situation.

 

[tc68]

Obviously it's your choice to feed the newly formulated Victor or not, loyal (who'd a thought that word would make so many people defensive) to Victor or not. But those that are concerned about the change in formulas should read this: https://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/newsevents/cvmupdates/ucm613305.htm

I'm concerned with the changes too. Didn't say I wasn't. But I'm not so fickle. If my dog doesn't do well on the new formula, yes, I will change. But until then, I'll stick with Victor only because my dog likes it. Have you ever had a dog that is very picky about what he likes to eat? And on top of that, you had to go through 10 different brands/formulas before you find one that he likes to eat. How about this...when your dog doesn't like the food and he won't eat? Then you're constantly worried about it getting enough food to stay healthy. And when it doesn't eat, it won't have a regular poop schedule. Then you're waking up at odd hours to take it out because he won't go at his usual times.

Loyalty is usually a positive word. So when you used it as a fault, how can people not be defensive?! You may not have used the words "blindly loyal," but you certainly did imply it. This isn't about loyalty to Victor. This is about convenience and here's the phrase you hear a lot in the dog food world, "going with what works." Right now, it's working for my dog.

 

[Jenny720]

People should call the company direct to get information they need about any common concerns they may have, after any changes made in the food they feed. I also use Fromm and I had call them in the past a few times. It can be then decided what you want to do when you get those answers whether they are the ones you want or not. I’m always looking for additional foods to rotate with and to accommodate my dogs with what they need and fit into my budget at the time. I do not like feeding the same thing on a consistent basis there is no perfect kibble.

I did call again today. I was told the exact same thing that was told to me the previous two times- that I had already mentioned in past post. In addition - the tetrasodium pyrophosphate and vegetable oil was an added addition to their formula to make improvements. The blood is removed and processed with the chickens using a high heat. Vitamin packs are used in their formula to balance vitamins and minerals which are sourced in the USA.

 

[mmags]

The protein from animal sources went up in the Nutra Pro all life stages with the change.

The animal protein increase is only because of the increased use of blood meal in the products, not because they are actually using more meat. I didnt mind blood meal in some of the formulas but now they are just overusing it as a means to still claim certain protein percentages without actually using meat meals. Blood meal is a cheap way that still appears as protein just like a meat meal when tested due to the amino acids present. But it is not the same and too much could cause organ stress due to the extreme amount of iron, phosphorus, and other things.

 

[mmags]

Which formulas in both brands are you interested in?

Rotating all of the Ancient grains formulas as well as the large breed from Muenster. And for Beaverdam ill do the high energy 26/18.

 

[Jax08]

People should call the company direct to get information they need about any common concerns they may have, after any changes made in the food they feed. I also use Fromm and I had call them in the past a few times. It can be then decided what you want to do when you get those answers whether they are the ones you want or not. I’m always looking for additional foods to rotate with and to accommodate my dogs with what they need and fit into my budget at the time. I do not like feeding the same thing on a consistent basis there is no perfect kibble.

I did call again today. I was told the exact same thing that was told to me the previous two times- that I had already mentioned in past post. In addition - the tetrasodium pyrophosphate and vegetable oil was an added addition to their formula to make improvements. The blood meal is processed with the chickens using a high heat. Vitamin packs are used in their formula to balance vitamins and minerals which are sourced in the USA.

I suspect that the labeling changes are driving the whole blood meal order in the ingredients. My understanding, from a conversation with someone actuallt working in the industry, is If the blood is in the chicken then it has to be listed seperately now. Weird rules on when they can say water and when they can broth. The high heat, per the info I read over the weekend, would make the blood meal all but useless and would not increase the protein levels in the food. The increase in grains over veges might though.

Did they say if they actually changed their formulas other than the oil and tetrasodium. Personally, I add corn oil to Seger's food when he's trialing for the fat so vege oil doesn't bother me at all. And it could be they have to list thst instead of saying vitamin e, which comes from vegetable oils.

 

[Jax08]

The only reason the animal protein content went up is due to the increased use of blood meal, not any meat meal products. I didnt mind blood meal in some of their formulas but now they are overusing it to still be able to claim certain protein percentages without actually using meat.

It went up 2%. Was it due to the blood meal? Did you call and ask? Or are you assuming? And again, if they need to increase the protein just slightly without creating and imbalance of other nutrients/minerals, there is nothing wrong with that.

Blood meal is no more evil than poultry by-products that are necks/hearts/feet/livers/etc. All things I feed to my dogs as part of their meals. And if blood meal is processed in high heat then it's rendered virtually inert per the nutritional information I found, in that case it added nothing but still has to be listed as an ingredient.

Bottom line is...to each their own. I will again advise people to call the manufacturer, with the added knowledge of label changes required by the AAFCO, to verify what exactly was changed and why.

 

[dogfaeries]

Rotating all of the Ancient grains formulas as well as the large breed from Muenster. And for Beaverdam ill do the high energy 26/18.

I’m always interested in adding a food into the rotation. Thanks!

 

[Jenny720]

@Jax08 The does makes sense with the blood meal and high heat. I can understand this view especially at the same time in regards to labeling especially after all the dogs with food related or unknown cardiomyopathy. AAFCO would up set higher guide lines which is good to know. It is a bit more upsetting if ingredients are not listed even if minut- I’m not sure how that is decided. Is that the norm in dog food companies - I feel like I need to become a biophysicist/nutrionist / chemist myself to see what determines this. When i did pick up a bag of food Saturday, the owner of my local feed store Was a bit baffled when I asked about the food. They were not notified of any changes and always are so that all started to made much sense -what you had mentioned.
I am very careful as I can be to use the staff’s words at Victors words by verbatim. I do urge people to call and ask questions also. They did say change and a few times. It was said they always put the ingriedents listed on the bag regardless whether that is the political answer-could be and makes sense. I would rather them be upfront if that is not the case above all else. I don’t know why they put tetrasodium pyrophospate in the food or was it fact in there to begin with. I am still trying to learn the best about my foods and skin care etc. what safe what’s not back different views. It can be a challenge to like everything they put in something -even my favorite things in case with many variables. I do now make sure I change things up even if I like everything in it.

 

[Jax08]

@Jenny720. Thank you for calling! I'm swamped at work right now and cant.

 

[theajackson]

Thanks for the heads up! What will you be switching to?

 

[Jenny720]

@Jax08 sure!

 

[Katsugsd]

Rotating all of the Ancient grains formulas as well as the large breed from Muenster. And for Beaverdam ill do the high energy 26/18.

A warning for Muenster's Large Breed formula - the kibble size is rather large if you haven't seen it yet. Maybe a Nickle/Quarter sized disc. Makes it easier to train with in a way. I would have kept with it but the fish formula works best for my two.

 

[NancyJ]

I have been feeding Victor (primarily the high energy formula) for a number of years and it is the first food that gave Beau solid stools and a slick coat. I talked with them about the changes too and will watch for impact when the food comes out. The blood meal does not bother me, particularly if it gives a better calciumhosphorus ratio. The removal of flax DELIGHTS me. .....

I have had excellent blood panels on the food and will continue to test annually and evaluate knowing that changes have occurred. The vegetable oil is very low on the list and, I also do add fish oil to the dogs' diet.

EDIT: FWIW they did tell me they plan on putting the General Analysis back up on the page once they have enough batches of the new formula go through testing to get typical numbers

 

[iswantoseo]

blood meal

would make the blood meal all but useless and would not increase the protein levels in the food

 

[NancyJ]

Personally, I add corn oil to Seger's food when he's trialing for the fat so vege oil doesn't bother me at all. And it could be they have to list thst instead of saying vitamin e, which comes from vegetable oils.

Interesting! Corn Oil (high in linoleic) is good for energy burn and for detection dogs (studies on that one with working dogs) I add grapeseed oil (also high in linoleic but no GMO risk and I use for high temp cooking because it is quite heat stable) in addition to the grapeseed as they can get a little dandruffy even with the high fat formula.

My dogs tend to do better on beef and most dog foods are chicken based. Beef tends to burn cooler than chicken (even though lamb and venison burn hot) I like having three protein sources in the food as well so not jonesing to run away particularly now that they got rid of that flax (which goes rancid very fast - so much that in my house I grind flax seeds in a grinder immediately before I consume them) and dogs get little benefit from ALA in the first place. Rather give the DHA and EPA from a quaility fish oil.