I used Victor Lamb and Rice bcs when ours was young, it was the only thing that didn't give him loose poop. After a year and a half we just switched from them even before I heard this, as a trial just for pure cost. Wolfgang won't eat any dry without it being topped with hot chicken so we went to Costco beef formula, since he's already chowing down a whole Costco rotisserie chicken per week anyway on top of his dry. So far so good with the poop situation.

 

People should call the company direct to get information they need about any common concerns they may have, after any changes made in the food they feed. I also use Fromm and I had call them in the past a few times. It can be then decided what you want to do when you get those answers whether they are the ones you want or not. I’m always looking for additional foods to rotate with and to accommodate my dogs with what they need and fit into my budget at the time. I do not like feeding the same thing on a consistent basis there is no perfect kibble.

I did call again today. I was told the exact same thing that was told to me the previous two times- that I had already mentioned in past post. In addition - the tetrasodium pyrophosphate and vegetable oil was an added addition to their formula to make improvements. The blood is removed and processed with the chickens using a high heat. Vitamin packs are used in their formula to balance vitamins and minerals which are sourced in the USA.

 

People should call the company direct to get information they need about any common concerns they may have, after any changes made in the food they feed. I also use Fromm and I had call them in the past a few times. It can be then decided what you want to do when you get those answers whether they are the ones you want or not. I’m always looking for additional foods to rotate with and to accommodate my dogs with what they need and fit into my budget at the time. I do not like feeding the same thing on a consistent basis there is no perfect kibble.

I did call again today. I was told the exact same thing that was told to me the previous two times- that I had already mentioned in past post. In addition - the tetrasodium pyrophosphate and vegetable oil was an added addition to their formula to make improvements. The blood meal is processed with the chickens using a high heat. Vitamin packs are used in their formula to balance vitamins and minerals which are sourced in the USA.

I suspect that the labeling changes are driving the whole blood meal order in the ingredients. My understanding, from a conversation with someone actuallt working in the industry, is If the blood is in the chicken then it has to be listed seperately now. Weird rules on when they can say water and when they can broth. The high heat, per the info I read over the weekend, would make the blood meal all but useless and would not increase the protein levels in the food. The increase in grains over veges might though.

Did they say if they actually changed their formulas other than the oil and tetrasodium. Personally, I add corn oil to Seger's food when he's trialing for the fat so vege oil doesn't bother me at all. And it could be they have to list thst instead of saying vitamin e, which comes from vegetable oils.

 

@Jax08 The does makes sense with the blood meal and high heat. I can understand this view especially at the same time in regards to labeling especially after all the dogs with food related or unknown cardiomyopathy. AAFCO would up set higher guide lines which is good to know. It is a bit more upsetting if ingredients are not listed even if minut- I’m not sure how that is decided. Is that the norm in dog food companies - I feel like I need to become a biophysicist/nutrionist / chemist myself to see what determines this. When i did pick up a bag of food Saturday, the owner of my local feed store Was a bit baffled when I asked about the food. They were not notified of any changes and always are so that all started to made much sense -what you had mentioned.
I am very careful as I can be to use the staff’s words at Victors words by verbatim. I do urge people to call and ask questions also. They did say change and a few times. It was said they always put the ingriedents listed on the bag regardless whether that is the political answer-could be and makes sense. I would rather them be upfront if that is not the case above all else. I don’t know why they put tetrasodium pyrophospate in the food or was it fact in there to begin with. I am still trying to learn the best about my foods and skin care etc. what safe what’s not back different views. It can be a challenge to like everything they put in something -even my favorite things in case with many variables. I do now make sure I change things up even if I like everything in it.

 

@Jenny720. Thank you for calling! I'm swamped at work right now and cant.

 

Thanks for the heads up! What will you be switching to?

 

@Jax08 sure!

 

I have been feeding Victor (primarily the high energy formula) for a number of years and it is the first food that gave Beau solid stools and a slick coat. I talked with them about the changes too and will watch for impact when the food comes out. The blood meal does not bother me, particularly if it gives a better calciumhosphorus ratio. The removal of flax DELIGHTS me. .....

I have had excellent blood panels on the food and will continue to test annually and evaluate knowing that changes have occurred. The vegetable oil is very low on the list and, I also do add fish oil to the dogs' diet.

EDIT: FWIW they did tell me they plan on putting the General Analysis back up on the page once they have enough batches of the new formula go through testing to get typical numbers

 

blood meal

would make the blood meal all but useless and would not increase the protein levels in the food

 

I know a lot of people think that Orijen is too expensive but since it is so nutrient dense with real ingredients, you feed so much less and it really does not end up being that much more. They dont have to add a bunch of vitamin supplements that the body doesn’t absorb well because their ingredients are so amazing the food is complete- I swear by Orijen!! And the company and customer service is amazing as well!!

 

Keisha1, have you been following the changes in Orijen over time? Truth About Pet Food did a really eye-opening piece on it not long ago:
https://truthaboutpetfood.com/is-change-in-pet-food-a-good-thing/

 

GrapeSEED oil is not toxic even though the grape skins etc are. It is actually quite a good source of vitamin E.

RE Orijen - I tried this food with my own dogs a few years back and was not pleased with the results and waiting it out did not produce good stools. When they started adding legumes, it reinforced my own concerns........

 

GrapeSEED oil is not toxic even though the grape skins etc are. It is actually quite a good source of vitamin E.

........

Great to know! Thankz!

 

I wonder about the entire Legume thing. Peanuts are legumes and yet we've been advocating peanutbutter for our dogs as long as I can remember. I was wondering if it were the potatoes in grain-free, which is a nightshade.

 

They're saying it may be potatoes and legumes. It could be peas and such have some different things in them than peanuts do. But even if they don't we don't feed the dogs peanut butter for every meal. An occasional treat is different from constantly taking something in at high quantities which is what some of the grain free diets are doing with peas etc.

 

They are also saying that it may be caused by not feeding the food with the correct calories per cup for the dog so the dog is deficient due to being feed less than the recommended amount. They do not know what is causing the heart issues, only the correlation.

 

I think as of right now they're pretty sure something is blocking taurine absorption. Because the dogs can have adequate taurine but don't absorb any of it. So just supplementing or feeding more doesn't help the dog get better because taurine absorption is actively being blocked. But maybe there are multiple causes resulting in the same condition?

 

I wonder if it is something totally unrelated. Given the breed commonalities I wonder if it's a genetic predisposition, only.

Affluent people tend to feed specialty foods. So far, findings may only prove correlation between being more wealthy, owning a purebred that wealthy people in suburbs tend toward, and feeding "the best" food possible. Perhaps rich golden retriever owners are all buying from somewhat common lines that carry an as yet unknown genetic propensity to DCM.

Just throwing that out there...but I think it could make sense.

 

I definitely think there is a genetic component.

 

@Magwart - yup. You read what I read.

 

Can someone give me the TLDR version of this thread? Should I continue using Victor?

 

LOL, Arathorn -- depends whom you ask:


Version 1: They added more legumes and took critical nutritional info off the website, so they seem to be hiding something; it might kill my dog by giving it a heart disease that the FDA warned about being linked to legumes in dog food; I must find a replacement food without legumes because I don't trust this company any longer.


Version 2: I called and talked to Victor, found out changes were minimal, necessary to appease AAFCO due to a rule change, and the website info will come back in a few weeks after the lab verifies it; nobody's proven any ingredient connection with that FDA warning and I'm not buying into Internet scare mongering until there's solid science supporting it; I still trust them, so I'm going to keep feeding it as long as it keeps agreeing with my dogs.


You must decide for yourself whether it's working for your dog, where you fall on the legume controversy, and how it works for your dog. Reasonable people here are coming to different conclusions.

 

Not all Victor dog food contains legumes to clarify - only the Grain free products.

 

My pet feed store still carries the original bag of victor right now so I happy. I noticed even the original fromm bag when they made some changes. They must have huge stock.

 

Is there anyone feeding the new victor- happy or have complaints?

 

I just recently switched to the Pro formula (the formula that my breeder uses for her adult GSDs) from the Hero Canine formula and the Nutra Pro formula. He's on his first bag of that. I just ordered 2 more bags yesterday. The Pro formula is much cheaper at $45 per 40 lbs bag. Under 50 bucks, I don't get the free shipping so I had to order 2 bags. Hard to tell from just one bag, but so far so good. No problems. No diarrhea yet. Poops are good. No allergies. Dog is happy. Btw, I don't know if the Pro formula changed or not.

 

I am about 3 days away from breaking into the new bag but am actually happy with the changes they made so we will see

 

Switched from Fromm to Victor about 3 months ago, because my dog got disinterested with the former. Ever since then, he eats all his meals, and seems to enjoy it much more. Got 2 big bags recently, and noticed no difference in his appetite and demeanor towards it. Victor and its sensible price compare to others, has worked for us, and unless there are reports base on factual evidence; or issues with this product and its new formulation, we are not changing his current food. :|

 

My dogs have both done very well on all the Victor formulas we have tried. I've fed Hi-Pro Plus, Ultra Pro and am currently feeding Nutra Pro. They have done equally well on all of them.

I, personally, see no reason to consider switching foods at this point. Fact is, Victor is still a privately owned company that manufactures their own foods and has an unblemished record for quality control. They have been around for many years, have always manufactured their own foods, and have never had a recall. Unless I see this change, or my dogs no longer do as well as they do on their foods, I don't see any reason to change.

My local feed and supply store, which is where I buy their foods, still has the old bags/formulas in their supply chain. We just opened a 40 pound bag of Nutra Pro a few days ago, so it will be a little while before I see the reformulated version. I don't anticipate it being an issue when we switch to the reformulated version, but will update on our experience if there's a compelling reason to.

 

I am pretty well into the transition and was concerned the removal of monmorillonite clay would have an adverse impact on Beau's stools as it "seemed" to be the magic ingredient for him. So far I have noticed no change. He eats the 24/20 high energy blend. We do our annual blood panels in July but that won't really be enough time for assesment I don't think

 

Thanks everyone.

It does make sense what Colorado mentioned. That is why it is important to go by how your dog looks and feels and overall health.
Fromm is a food I use in rotation it is a good company. The food has cheddar cheese listed pretty far down in the ingredient list so if it makes the food more edible and a good fatty acid I am okay with that.

 

Oh the cheese does not bother me. Just that people are all upset about blood meal (though I do gather some of the new hi pro formulas really use a lot of it); it is not so much in the classic formulas

 

I have 2 dogs on it and a boarder on it. I assume mine are eating the new stuff....I'm honestly not sure but they go thru it pretty fast and I am always getting new bags from Chewy. Things have been so crazy I couldn't swear if the bag is different or not....?

My two and my boarder are doing great-- my boarder I suggested Victor to the owner to improve stools, and it has done that very well just like it did for my dogs.