I have two dogs on Victor. Check out their prices. Better food for about $1/lb.

Some of it is hype. Some of it is not. Just like everything else, you have to find the happy medium.

Purina and Iams is garbage as far as I'm concerned.

 

I understand that many think that these brands are garbage, I also see my dogs doing well on them. I was hoping for something a little more specific, such as any studies or personal experiences that those brands make dogs sick, shorten their lives or cause poor health as opposed to the specialty brands. This would be excluding dogs that do have genetic issues or allergies and must have special diets.

I have read all the articles I could find, but I see none that actually refer to studies that have documented any proof. They say the ingredients are crap but it ends there....

 

This is and has been a tough decision for me. I prefer to feed raw for their general diet and a good kibble once in a while. But then on the other hand: a friend of mine has a malinois who is 15 years old and has always been fed Iams. Never had major health issues and still goes on walks. I recently met a Bassett Hound of 18 years!!!! He was fed Purina all of his life. Another friend who had champion racing Whippets in the past had fed them Eukanuba. So go figure.

 

I've seen the same. So far, it sounds like a personal preference. Like the difference between having a burrito or a steak for people. I understand less volume and less bulk with dog food, but that is just a convenience.

 

One simple way is to see what comes out after feeding, I have noticed after started uisng Acana, the size of the poop has decresed (no corn fillers), coat looks pretty good and shiny. Bottom line is, check the ingredients and where ist is made.

 

Isn't this mostly a reduction of fiber which they need and does not harm them?

 

I have five dogs. I feed Diamond High Energy. All my dogs get a raw chicken leg in the morning (except my Miniature Dachshund). At night, I feed the following amounts of kibble:

Golden Retriever: 1 1/2 cup
GSD: 2 Cups
Lacy: 1 Cup
Beagle: 1 Cup
Mini Doxie: 1/2 Cup

All of my dogs are in very good shape. All are healthy. No skin problems. No itching. Their waste is very minimal, and hardly no stench.

So, I pay a little more. I feed less. I have healthy dogs. I clean up less poop.
Win/Win

 

You must also look at the quality of the company.

When people like Diamond, Nestle, P&G KEEP making the same mistakes over, and over again, constantly having to recall products... why trust them? Most food companies will have a recall, its a part of being in the food industry. But look at the way they handle them, the number they've had and what the causes are... and perhaps most importantly, how they deal with them once they've happened.

Purina's got to be one of the worst in that respect, while I could say P&G, despite numerous recalls, has always been relatively responsible about them. Its all relative.

Or, besides the point entirely, why not just feed a food like Fromm Classic or Victor, which net about the same cost as either, come from vastly better companies, and don't use as many crappy ingredients.

 

That's a good point on the recalls however, I just checked the petfoodadvisor website. Many were "natural recipies", Diamond or Iams. Out of 96 recall listings Purina had 1 and Blue Buffalo had 1. Where are you getting your #'s on the excessive recalls on Purina?

 

You also feed less with the better foods. That makes the cost not as high as just looking at the price of the bag.

 

I think you can choose to feed your dog the Purina and Iams, but why try to push buttons belonging to the people that choose to feed RAW and "premium" brands?

Some of the low-end companies have been dragged, kicking and screaming, into producing better quality foods based on public education and outcry (like rancid meats, euthanized dogs and cats being used in the feed [not a current practice], dead and down animals etc.)

Some of us don't want to feed our dog some of the ingredients in these foods. That is not hype, that is making an informed choice. If you are happy, that is fine.

 

I'm not trying to push anyone's buttons. All of the comments thus far are questions I raised myself when trying to decide what to feed this pup. If you read my original post, you will see that I was asking for information from anyone that could point me to comparative nutritional studies or personal experiences with the higher and lower quality dog foods.

My pup will be 6 months old soon and I need to do as much nutritional research as possible to decide what her regular diet will be. I am not sure which comment upset you. This is a controversial subject to be sure and I am not trying to upset anyone.

RAW is one of the first diets I looked at. That's why I became familiar with the Dr Becker videos. It is not possible for me to provide a RAW diet to my pup. I am not against upgrading her food if I can read a study (by a neutral 3rd party) that shows it is superior for the health of the dog. I want to read the studies and trials so I can discuss them with my vet on our next visit in 2 weeks.

As the moderator, are you aware of any sites that I could look at that do comparative studies of the different foods as to long term health? Have the ingredients changed a lot in the Purina products in the last few years? (That would negate the fact that my previous dogs did well on their product)

 

I know that I'll never feed Purina to my dogs. My mom bought Purina and fed it to our beagle when I was growing up. It caused her to go blind from SARDS at the age of 3.

 

Thank you. This is the kind of info I need. I was not aware that Iams changed their recipe. I feed only the "Iams super puppy" and none of their other products. I found it on the petfoodadvisor site and they actually scored just this specific Iams product with a "B". Even they were suprised at the quality according to their review.

 

Every owner feeds their dog according to affordability and convenience of the food, and how well the dog does on it.
I'll tell you why I don't find those studies helpful: each dog is different.
For example, Fromm is considered to be a fantastic food. For my dog, it was a disaster, because chicken makes him sick. Even raw chicken and other poultry caused bad stools, itchy skin, and vomiting.

One dog can live a long time on Purina but the dog being "fine" is in the eye of the beholder.
My mom fed kibble, I don't know what kind. Her dogs smelled terrible and had bad breath, and one constantly licked his paws, but she thought they were healthy and fine. To this day she doesn't admit they smelled bad. Could be that when you live with an animal, you get used to it and he doesn't seem smelly to your nose.

Ultimately, the best food is the one you are happy with, and the one you consider to be keeping your dog healthy and full of energy, whatever your definition of that is.

PS-- When I tried to feed freeze-dried raw for two weeks, my dog's hair started falling out at an alarming rate, and I understood then why people think German Shepherds shed.
He also acted as if he were starving all the time, probably because he was used to eating meat that fills his stomach.

When I switched back to raw, he stopped shedding and was no longer acting as if he hadn't eaten in weeks.

That is my experience.
Your mileage may vary.

 

Agreed, I think it's something you have to make a decision on yourself. Don't let anyone force their opinion on you, as there is no one who is the final authority on how you should go about your life. I think the best food any dog I grew up with had was Hill's Science Diet. Our Aussie had allergies, and it was the only brand that did not make her chew all the hair off her butt. It's also got to depend on what your dog will eat. I currently feed dry food (nothing against raw, just don't have the time or the space to keep a good supply going, plus the quality of the meat can be questionable in my area). My girls are on TOTW Pacific Puppy formula. They love it. I wanted to try Fromm's, but I'm not going to pay more for the small bag of food that I will have to go and replace in less than a week (they only sell the little bags of puppy food around me ugh). They do not like Blue Buffalo and neither do my cats. So far, TOTW has worked for MY pets, but this may not be the case for yours. I would experiment more, but my girls stools are nice, and I also notice I don't overfeed as much with the dry since I can measure it out. Will try raw at some point, but waiting until my stock pond is more established, or I can find a better local supply of quality meat.

 

one pup from my girls litter ws fed a garbage diet and too much of it. At 10 months old it was basically unrecognizeable from the rest of the litter. It probably weighed 75 lbs and my girl is 56.

 

Thank you for the information. I missed reading about Purina's negligence on a problem product.

 

Reasonably priced food for a puppy. Look at the reviews on Fromm. Excellent company with log solid history. nothing radical. No recalls and excellent HACCP program.

 

:thumbup:

 

Thanks for the info. You certainly have been aware and switched foods accordingly.

I cannot drive (seizures) and am limited to where I can travel routinely to get dog food without an expensive taxi fee. Safeway is right across the street from where I live.

My pups sire and dam are 80lbs & 120lbs and the breeder recommended I put the pup on adult food as a precaution to growth issues. I am only adding 25% Iams super puppy to her diet, just as a precaution in case the purina dog chow is lacking in minerals and other essentials. The yogurt is recommended by the vet (for now) and the lean chicken pieces are his "treats".

My vet has ok'd this diet, but I am looking forward a few months to try to find something that will work for the long term.

 

Is the Iams large breed puppy? I understand GSDs need to be on specific LBP formulas.

Most places online can deliver food to your house if you are in the US. That might be an option if you're looking to switch it up.

 

Whenever people talk diet, most of the evidence is going to be anecdotal. It's hard to quantify the long-term impact of eating one type of food versus another. For example, have we been able to answer whether organic food is definitively better than none?
Organic foods: Are they safer? More nutritious? - Mayo Clinic
According to Mayo, which I consider reputable, we have not.
This is in human food, which I would argue most of the world cares more about.

My own anecdotal evidence is here:

I fed Puppy Orijen Large Breed Puppy growing up. Friend with puppy fresh from the shelter fed Blue Buffalo (or Buffalo Blue?). Both dogs get together, and my dog's body smells GREAT. Her dog had a distinct doggy scent. That dog went on to be a raw-fed dog, and now the scent on that dog is gone too.

2. Puppy was fed Orijen. I noticed her dental health was not what I was comfortable with. I switched her to raw. Her overall condition is comparable, but her teeth are much better.

In my mind, kibble is a convenient way to replace having to assemble a nutritionally balanced meal every day for your dog. So, in an ideal world, the ingredients list should read that way. If you would naturally not feed your dog alot of corn, or only chicken, then maybe it doesn't have a place in your kibble either.

 

Thank you for your post. I could not find any trials either. Plenty of info by the pet food companies on both sides. You would think that by now there would be an independent study done.

I always knew that dog food (and hot dogs pretty much) was primarily grain (fillers) and disgusting animal parts. I've been trying to keep up on GMO results in humans but it still sounds inconclusive to me.

The preservatives used concern me, but have they been there all along? Or are they using types now that are of greater concern than in the past 20 years or so. I don't even know how to query a search for preservative changes in dog food in the last 20 years.

Several good points, making a list for my vet!

 

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From what I can see, just as an example; Blue Buffalo 15 lb 32.99 - Purina dog chow 15 lb 12.99.

I will probably use that method if I need to. I still have to see something that definitively shows that her health will be damaged if I don't use another brand. Thanks for the suggestion!

 

Thanks for the link. 54.99 for 30 lbs of Victor. That's a better price. Added to my list of resources.

 

I hope you don't find out AFTER she develops health problems.

 

My pup will not be a sled dog. She won't be running a 4 mile trail as a sled dog. She is not high drive. I live in the city. I understand that you are commenting based on your experience. I am commenting on my experience. This is not my first GSD. Your comment "I hope you don't find out after she has health problems" is not useful in any way.

 

I honestly don't understand this.

Just because your dog is not a sled dog and lives in the city does not mean he doesn't need nutrition.

Same as with humans. Just because you are not an athlete does not mean it will be healthy for you to eat all junk, every day.

 

I no longer have sled dogs but I do have a GSD that can easily run 5 miles a day, work and train and still have energy to spare. This is a working breed.
The problem with your way of thinking is, the damage may very well be done before your aware.
A good diet supports your dog's Immune system, a weakened immune system allows alot of problems to take hold. Some may not be reversable thus IMO makes this information useful and important..
It makes no difference to me should you choose to feed your pup crappy food. Perhaps it is all you can afford but I would like other members who are looking for feeding options, see what promotes good health.
I believe a dogs diet is the foundation to a healthy life.

When you pay $12.99 for a large bag of dog food, common sense tells you it's crap, after all they are still making a profit on that.

 

Anecdotally, dogs smell better and need fewer baths and have better breath on good quality food. I personally have seen dogs go from needing frequent baths to almost never needing baths when their food was changed from Purina dog Chow or Beneful to Solid Gold or Victor. I have witnessed this with my own eyes multiple times after convincing friends and family to give it a try. I live in a one bedroom apartment with two adult German Shepherds and I have had non-dog-owning friends tell me that if they didn't see the dogs they'd never know they were there. There's nothing proven one way or the other as far as long-term health but for me, living in an apartment with 2 large dogs, the easy to pick up poops and the lack of doggie odor is enough.

My dogs eat Victor Grain-Free which I buy from my local feed store: $45 for a 30lb bag.

 

As I said in my original post. My last GSD lived to be 14.5 years old. The 2 prior to that lived to be 13.5 and 13 years old. All fed on Purina. They were healthy and happy.

It is very apparent that you believe in a RAW diet. I'm glad your dogs are doing well. There are many others who do not feed RAW and still have healthy dogs. You can read their comments and what they feed.

This is how the thread started, we have moved on from there.

 

Thanks. Your the 2nd person to recommend Victor. It certainly is more affordable than some of the other brands. My dogs never had body odor but I have petted GSD's and my hand just reeked.

Victor will be the one I discuss with my vet if I decide I need to change.