[onyx'girl]

I am one of those novice handlers and I agree with you 100%. I am working on holding the lead tightly and I have never let it go yet! My decoy always says...you better hold on to that lead...can't say I blame him. My girl is 70 pounds at 1 year old and I weigh in at 115. I have strong legs and I am short so I have good center of gravity. Yesterday was my first time working with an agitation harness and she was a lot stronger on that than the agitation collar so I will be continuing to work out to stay in shape to do this sport.

It's not so much just holding the line but not moving to give the dog closer access to the helper. My 90# dog has popped me off my feet more than once on a flat collar, and I keep my legs bent, body low, it still happened.
I had to go to a prong to have more control, didn't set my dog back whatsoever.

 

[Shaina]

I am a naturally clumsy handler. With my club, we had me handle my girl and we were trying to get her to target the sleeve properly. With me learning something new, and HER learning something new, there was way too much room for human error. Next session, I asked if I could back tie her, let her learn what SHE is doing and then work me into the equation. Sure enough, the next run with me handling the leash was MUCH better. Sometimes you just gotta let people step back and watch what the dog is SUPPOSED to be doing so that they can handle them correctly. It can be hard to handle a lunging dog, especially for smaller handlers

 

[bocron]

I equate it to teaching someone to drive and pointing them to a stack of car parts. It is very hard to learn a skill while teaching (which to the dog, the handler is a teacher, that is where they are getting their queues). You also end up with a screwed up car to some extent . So we tend to step in pretty frequently if it looks like the dog is getting confused.

 

[onyx'girl]

When I first started training, I didn't have a dog to work, so was observing everything others were doing. Then when I got a pup the next club I was in was training a new helper, so I was able to gain information while spectating(my pup was too young). Unfortunately they ended up using me & my puppy to help train the helper. It didn't hurt anything, but surely didn't help either. It was always supervised and directed by the experienced one, but I regret it.
Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it.
Luckily I had a good dog that was fine with it....and when we went elsewhere the lightbulb came on that showed how stagnant our beginning training was.

I did learn alot, though about my handling skills and the timing...when the dog should be rewarded and not. So it wasn't all wasted time.
If any handler has an opportunity to go to helper seminars, it is so worth it, even if it is a trial helper type seminar. I think everyone who is new to the sport, should learn from a helpers perspective before handling a line.

 

[hunterisgreat]

When I first started training, I didn't have a dog to work, so was observing everything others were doing. Then when I got a pup the next club I was in was training a new helper, so I was able to gain information while spectating(my pup was too young). Unfortunately they ended up using me & my puppy to help train the helper. It didn't hurt anything, but surely didn't help either. It was always supervised and directed by the experienced one, but I regret it.
Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't have done it.
Luckily I had a good dog that was fine with it....and when we went elsewhere the lightbulb came on that showed how stagnant our beginning training was.

I did learn alot, though about my handling skills and the timing...when the dog should be rewarded and not. So it wasn't all wasted time.
If any handler has an opportunity to go to helper seminars, it is so worth it, even if it is a trial helper type seminar. I think everyone who is new to the sport, should learn from a helpers perspective before handling a line.

Someone asked me yesterday if I wanted to work my dogs he could wear the sleeve while I handled... I was like "... uhh.. i appreciate the offer, but being a helper not just being a bite object.". Actually last saturday was the first time my dogs have ever been handled by anyone other than me... by our club president lol

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

Good post and ...*sigh* trust me it's not any easier when you're 48 years old.



I at least have TONS *pun intended* of experience handling 1000 pound plus horses so I knew how to center myself and hold on fairly well......but the nuances of it all - interaction between dog, handler, helper.....still a work in progress for sure.

Hopefully we'll get to keep working on it again soon though.....

I also think it's safer to back-tie until the handler can fully understand the concept on how to work the line during protection. That way neither the helper or the dog gets screwed over in the work because it's all in the control of the helper.

I had no idea what I was doing when I first started and no one ever explained to me how I (a 17 year old girl) was supposed to correctly post myself to hold back my 85 pound dog. Needless to say, I moved around quite a bit, because its awful difficult to not move when you're holding the leash with two hands completely extended

The first time I was ever told otherwise was at my last club's fall trial almost a year after I had started in Schutzhund. The judge was doing some helper work after the trial had ended and I brought my dog out. He told me to be a post or he'd whip me.

Guess who got whipped. But seriously he was the first one to explain to me a better way to hold my leash, and had me wrap around and pretty much sit on it, and it made a world of difference (obviously). Three years later, I will approach any stranger working their dog who is holding the leash incorrectly At at club, trial, etc, and I'll show them how I was told to hold the leash. If I can hold back my dog, then they can definitely hold theirs. And all the time, I'm told that they were never given that advice before.

So just make sure you're not assuming that the handlers all know exactly what to do. It's scary enough already, being new to the sport, and a lot of people aren't being properly informed before they start.

 

[hunterisgreat]

Im going to start back tying handlers. Or putting an ecollar on them and having someone stim them if they move

 

[hunterisgreat]

I could see an experienced helper/handler pair being able to both know when a bite was appropriate, but if I told any of our lesser experienced members that we'd have way too many "sorry, thought you were giving him a bite" moments. I'll just never publicly say that and roll with it for those that can read me well.

 

[GatorDog]

Im going to start back tying handlers. Or putting an ecollar on them and having someone stim them if they move

I got hit with a whip because I moved. And let me tell you right now that after a pissed of teenage girl was done going up one side and down the other of that helper, I still knew nothing more about posting than I did before it happened...and my a$$ hurt.

People learn differently. Some have to physically be shown how to do it, some have to watch others, and some just need a good explanation. Gotta find out what works for some people before you get too angry. That's what training is all about.

 

[Shaina]

I could see an experienced helper/handler pair being able to both know when a bite was appropriate, but if I told any of our lesser experienced members that we'd have way too many "sorry, thought you were giving him a bite" moments. I'll just never publicly say that and roll with it for those that can read me well.

I prefer the decoy be verbal when he works my dog. I like to hear "miss... miss... GRIP!" so I know when I'm suppose to give a lil slack.

 

[hunterisgreat]

I prefer the decoy be verbal when he works my dog. I like to hear "miss... miss... GRIP!" so I know when I'm suppose to give a lil slack.

I think dogs will pick up on that. Watched one of mine learn in about for interactions a light tap on a wall meant I was getting ready to give him "pass auf" just yesterday

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

No way!

Good for you for letting the helper have it.

I got hit with a whip because I moved. And let me tell you right now that after a pissed of teenage girl was done going up one side and down the other of that helper, I still knew nothing more about posting than I did before it happened...and my a$$ hurt.

People learn differently. Some have to physically be shown how to do it, some have to watch others, and some just need a good explanation. Gotta find out what works for some people before you get too angry. That's what training is all about.

 

[onyx'girl]

clik this~the first video w/ s. house

 

[Gwenhwyfair]

I've seen top German Dressage trainers put clinic riders in tears.

 

[Smithie86]

I got hit with a whip because I moved. And let me tell you right now that after a pissed of teenage girl was done going up one side and down the other of that helper, I still knew nothing more about posting than I did before it happened...and my a$$ hurt.

People learn differently. Some have to physically be shown how to do it, some have to watch others, and some just need a good explanation. Gotta find out what works for some people before you get too angry. That's what training is all about.

This is an excellent post. Just because some one is a good at...... (insert here)... does not mean they are good trainers, teachers, instructors. Sometimes the best trainer/teacher/instructor is not the best helper, trainer, etc. It is the person that knows how to read people, the best communicator, and what best works for that person in training.

To me, the best instruction is ahead of time and what is expected when you step out onto the field. There should be little to no correction of the handler during the training - if so, they were not explain to what was expected.

This is from dog training to work training, etc. to teaching.

 

[hunterisgreat]

Just found out today in a few months I'll probably be the primary (only) helper at our club ;-)

 

[onyx'girl]

That will be a work out for you...hope you don't get burned out! Is there anyone you can mentor? Too few helpers in this world.

 

[hunterisgreat]

That will be a work out for you...hope you don't get burned out! Is there anyone you can mentor? Too few helpers in this world.

Its already a workout. 3 new puppies today. Puppies are sooooooo much more work than a SchH3 dog lol.

Fortunately yes. I'll be/have been learning from a few of the best out there. A few people on here know who I train with, but I've interestingly found that the all the really awesome people prefer that their names or likenesses never be used in a public capacity lol. So I honor their wishes and have never/will never acknowledge anything regarding them

 

[onyx'girl]

What I meant was~ start training/groom someone who may be interested in helperwork. Now that you have some experience you don't want to over work yourself...so pass on your knowledge as has been done for you.

 

[hunterisgreat]

What I meant was~ start training/groom someone who may be interested in helperwork. Now that you have some experience you don't want to over work yourself...so pass on your knowledge as has been done for you.

Oh lol.. I'm too new to think in that capacity. I was actually thinking about that today.. and as far as regular club members go, no one comes to mind who is a) interested enough, and b) capable... so I guess I gotta go hit the streets and recruit me a lackey lol.