Dingo vom Haus Gero and a modern day GSL.
A Comparison Worth Noting(no showline bashing)
HeidiGS
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The only thing I can say[ A friend showed me comparison pics. and I go by my memory!] is that most GSD dogs of the 50's, 60's and before that were leaner, lighter and their rear quarters were noticeably more parallel to the ground lacking HD.
Just about every breed has been over bred because of selfishness, greed and the lack of doing what is right.
There are numerous pics. demonstrating this from the 1930's on the website germanshepherd100years.com/centennial-blog.
Ciao,,,Roberto
Capo "Cochise" Mazur-b.12.26.2010-Siberian Husky
Cochise Von Mazur-5.27.82-5.20.97-GSD/Malamute
Baron Von Mazur-6.5.65-7.20.77-GSD
Just about every breed has been over bred because of selfishness, greed and the lack of doing what is right.
There are numerous pics. demonstrating this from the 1930's on the website germanshepherd100years.com/centennial-blog.
Ciao,,,Roberto
Capo "Cochise" Mazur-b.12.26.2010-Siberian Husky
Cochise Von Mazur-5.27.82-5.20.97-GSD/Malamute
Baron Von Mazur-6.5.65-7.20.77-GSD
the dog you show has no period of suspension . 3 on the ground .
see illustration C http://workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm#chitika_close_button
see illustration C http://workingdogs.com/lshaw1.htm#chitika_close_button
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341 Posts
The only objection that I have to that article is that is doesn't simply state that there are beautiful exceptions in the show lines. I've seen some gorgeous Showlines. And, forgive me, but there are working lines who have too straight of a back. Not trying to start an argument, and a lot of its true, but I think they should state that there are exceptions. Here are some modern dogs I like, ambassadors for each line. I'm aware that these dogs don't fit the standard perfectly, I just like how they're built.
A German Showline I Like:
V (BSZS) Tinka von der Waterkant
A American Showline I like:
CH. (US) Breezewood's Genuine Damascus Steele
A Working Line I like:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...UunqMIK9rQHNloGADw&usg=AFQjCNFCE3cD6swoKbZQTWWdxd8f4mK8YA&bvm=bv.53371865,d.aWM
A German Showline I Like:
V (BSZS) Tinka von der Waterkant
A American Showline I like:
CH. (US) Breezewood's Genuine Damascus Steele
A Working Line I like:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...UunqMIK9rQHNloGADw&usg=AFQjCNFCE3cD6swoKbZQTWWdxd8f4mK8YA&bvm=bv.53371865,d.aWM
here is a good one - Shawlein Fine Art & Purebred German Shepherd Dogs
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I agree with you! Just waiting to hear back from the authority here. I'm really intent on illustrating that ASL can have just as much to offer in movement as the touted Dingo. Any other folks are also welcome to critique her movement, of course.
thank you for waiting , so here you go -- look again
Dingo v h Gero was chosen as an illustration of balance in motion
balance in movement , OPENING of SHOULDER , head level with back , no lifting , which makes reach look greater because you have brought the muzzle back- no lifting of front end.
Look at picture # 5 , that is beautiful economy of movement !!!!! nice long upper arm for that reach . Level topline . Picture #4 shows thrust from rear leg for propulsion.
again "von Lord Fandor"
buy yourself the Sue Barwig book the encyclopedic book This is the German Shepherd and look at Hessians Baldur , the reach of GV Hessian's Vogue (rom) , Hessians Tinsel for examples of excellence - reach and drive.
A US judge Ann Mesdag told me that you should be able to picture a wine glass on the dogs back and not a drop being spilled --- level ---
Dingo v h Gero was chosen as an illustration of balance in motion
balance in movement , OPENING of SHOULDER , head level with back , no lifting , which makes reach look greater because you have brought the muzzle back- no lifting of front end.
Look at picture # 5 , that is beautiful economy of movement !!!!! nice long upper arm for that reach . Level topline . Picture #4 shows thrust from rear leg for propulsion.
again "von Lord Fandor"
buy yourself the Sue Barwig book the encyclopedic book This is the German Shepherd and look at Hessians Baldur , the reach of GV Hessian's Vogue (rom) , Hessians Tinsel for examples of excellence - reach and drive.
A US judge Ann Mesdag told me that you should be able to picture a wine glass on the dogs back and not a drop being spilled --- level ---
no lifting - (from Fred Lanting article)
![Image]()
often you see dogs with 3 feet on the ground , no opening of hock for thrust , too much angles, too long , too heavy , too soft - lacking conditioning
rarely do you see suspension as in this example , given by Fred Lanting
![Image]()
often you see dogs with 3 feet on the ground , no opening of hock for thrust , too much angles, too long , too heavy , too soft - lacking conditioning
rarely do you see suspension as in this example , given by Fred Lanting
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Carmen not to go OT, but whatever happened to "Trommel?" I spoke to him many years ago, was going to get a dog from him, but he didn't have anything at the time, he was such a knowledgeable person, and I LOVED the dogs he was producing
I sent one of my females to a Trommel heavy male -- I'll have to dig my files because I took a chance and lost the gamble -- no pups .
About two years later a man , bought two males from me to add to his lines carrying von Trommel .
I'll dig for those names and see if I can't connect you.
the person knew I used Yoncalla's Mike and Arco and Bodo Grafental , which was his cross, so had anything come of the breeding they also would have been interested in the litter for themselves
They had bone, conformation, balance and could work.
they are in my background
About two years later a man , bought two males from me to add to his lines carrying von Trommel .
I'll dig for those names and see if I can't connect you.
the person knew I used Yoncalla's Mike and Arco and Bodo Grafental , which was his cross, so had anything come of the breeding they also would have been interested in the litter for themselves
They had bone, conformation, balance and could work.
they are in my background
If you want to make a comparison to Dingo I would say "Jasmin" is pretty darn close .
The picture of Atrice Klammle shows a very dramatic, exciting flying trot -- something which got the ASLs into the predicament they are in now , meaning the emphasis on side movement -- . Flying trot is meant to be an over drive , not the automatic movement. Even so I can not ever recall having seen a dog in flying trot to run down the decoy, make an apprehension, catch up when running down the road to join me . That would be a gallop .
The balance of the body for a workman like all day comfortable trot is important . Just as , even more so, is a balance in mind and character .
Enjoy the dogs not so long ago --
1963 Select Gallery
enjoy looking at the older Kirschental herding dogs (till around the late 1980's when there was a shift)
Zwinger vom Kirschental und vom Haus Kirschental - history Karl Füller
The picture of Atrice Klammle shows a very dramatic, exciting flying trot -- something which got the ASLs into the predicament they are in now , meaning the emphasis on side movement -- . Flying trot is meant to be an over drive , not the automatic movement. Even so I can not ever recall having seen a dog in flying trot to run down the decoy, make an apprehension, catch up when running down the road to join me . That would be a gallop .
The balance of the body for a workman like all day comfortable trot is important . Just as , even more so, is a balance in mind and character .
Enjoy the dogs not so long ago --
1963 Select Gallery
enjoy looking at the older Kirschental herding dogs (till around the late 1980's when there was a shift)
Zwinger vom Kirschental und vom Haus Kirschental - history Karl Füller
ms Jakoda you were asking about von Trommel and I said I would flip through my files to find the pedigree of a breeding which I very much hoped for , as did the owner of the stud .
The stud dogs name was Dutch Hill Zial ---
His sire was Trommels Cobra , a son of Degen who was son of Bodo Grafental !
pedigree of Cobra Trommel's Cobra
here is where some following is required . Cobra was bred to Trommels Symphony who is a daughter of Neumann's Jim V CH (US) Neumann's Jim
there is a listing for Symphony but the information for her dam Obba has not been provided, but is available through her littermate brother Otto v d Trommel Otto von der Trommel
the female I sent down was Carmspack Kimarli
we had guide dog schools keenly interested in the offspring . no pups. none with 'marli , none with other females -
The stud dogs name was Dutch Hill Zial ---
His sire was Trommels Cobra , a son of Degen who was son of Bodo Grafental !
pedigree of Cobra Trommel's Cobra
here is where some following is required . Cobra was bred to Trommels Symphony who is a daughter of Neumann's Jim V CH (US) Neumann's Jim
there is a listing for Symphony but the information for her dam Obba has not been provided, but is available through her littermate brother Otto v d Trommel Otto von der Trommel
the female I sent down was Carmspack Kimarli
we had guide dog schools keenly interested in the offspring . no pups. none with 'marli , none with other females -
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Can I ask this - WHY the elongated stack? Why the entire hock placed on the ground? It makes a dog look WEAK. What could it ever positively emphasize? Just visually those 1963 selects looked night and day from the 2002 selects.
I understand a stack is just that - a stack. However if you're constantly having to defend the dog's TRUE conformation against every non-show ring person, and frankly if everyone but the few conformation people think it makes the dog's conformation look horrendous, unhealthy, and undesirable, then why do it?
(Note I'm not bashing showline dogs, I'm criticizing the extreme stacks they are put into that IMHO do no good for their overall appearance)
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I understand a stack is just that - a stack. However if you're constantly having to defend the dog's TRUE conformation against every non-show ring person, and frankly if everyone but the few conformation people think it makes the dog's conformation look horrendous, unhealthy, and undesirable, then why do it?
(Note I'm not bashing showline dogs, I'm criticizing the extreme stacks they are put into that IMHO do no good for their overall appearance)
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it isn't just the stack , the dog has a disproportionately lengthened lower thigh of the leg - taken from Fred Lanting called “AKC type.”
![Image]()
Most modern AKC-type GSDs have been bred for an extremely exaggerated length of lower thigh and a placement of the metatarsus (when vertical) that is much further behind the pelvis than the founders of the breed specified. Since front-limb angulation cannot possibly match this exaggeration, and the last 40 or more years has seen “AKC GSDs” become almost totally lacking in front-limb angulation, such dogs often move with a high “goose-stepping” gait in front, and incomplete extension of the hock at the end of that rear limb’s extension, thus wasting time and effort in a breed whose claim to fame and utility once was its efficiency of movement, in addition to its character. (See other articles of mine on gait and structure.) I have also seen “locked hocks” in Afghan Hounds and other breeds. In some cases it is indeed an inability of the ligaments to allow full extension, and in others it is merely the result of an upright shoulder/upper-arm combined with overdone stifle angulation—the dog must waste time by lifting (“goose-stepping”) in front while the rear limb finishes its longer stride.
so what Lanting shows is the 3 on the floor - no suspension , compare to "Jazmin" or Dingo.
a competitor at the 2011 Westminster
![Image]()
add this http://www.leabashiba.com/fashion.vs.GSD.htm
Most modern AKC-type GSDs have been bred for an extremely exaggerated length of lower thigh and a placement of the metatarsus (when vertical) that is much further behind the pelvis than the founders of the breed specified. Since front-limb angulation cannot possibly match this exaggeration, and the last 40 or more years has seen “AKC GSDs” become almost totally lacking in front-limb angulation, such dogs often move with a high “goose-stepping” gait in front, and incomplete extension of the hock at the end of that rear limb’s extension, thus wasting time and effort in a breed whose claim to fame and utility once was its efficiency of movement, in addition to its character. (See other articles of mine on gait and structure.) I have also seen “locked hocks” in Afghan Hounds and other breeds. In some cases it is indeed an inability of the ligaments to allow full extension, and in others it is merely the result of an upright shoulder/upper-arm combined with overdone stifle angulation—the dog must waste time by lifting (“goose-stepping”) in front while the rear limb finishes its longer stride.
so what Lanting shows is the 3 on the floor - no suspension , compare to "Jazmin" or Dingo.
a competitor at the 2011 Westminster
add this http://www.leabashiba.com/fashion.vs.GSD.htm
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Well.... I was TRYING not to bash by avoiding outright asking why dogs with such extreme rear ends are even being considered, but since the usual defense is "it's just the stack" I figured I would ask then why do we out them in such an extreme stackit isn't just the stack , the dog has a disproportionately lengthened lower thigh of the leg - taken from Fred Lanting called “AKC type.”
![Image]()
Most modern AKC-type GSDs have been bred for an extremely exaggerated length of lower thigh and a placement of the metatarsus (when vertical) that is much further behind the pelvis than the founders of the breed specified. Since front-limb angulation cannot possibly match this exaggeration, and the last 40 or more years has seen “AKC GSDs” become almost totally lacking in front-limb angulation, such dogs often move with a high “goose-stepping” gait in front, and incomplete extension of the hock at the end of that rear limb’s extension, thus wasting time and effort in a breed whose claim to fame and utility once was its efficiency of movement, in addition to its character. (See other articles of mine on gait and structure.) I have also seen “locked hocks” in Afghan Hounds and other breeds. In some cases it is indeed an inability of the ligaments to allow full extension, and in others it is merely the result of an upright shoulder/upper-arm combined with overdone stifle angulation—the dog must waste time by lifting (“goose-stepping”) in front while the rear limb finishes its longer stride.
so what Lanting shows is the 3 on the floor - no suspension , compare to "Jazmin" or Dingo.
a competitor at the 2011 Westminster
![Image]()
add this http://www.leabashiba.com/fashion.vs.GSD.htm
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