German Shepherds Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

60 minutes

Jump to Latest
21K views 71 replies 24 participants last post by  Nelly  
#1 ·
Wonderful reporting on the elite dogs in our military with some good factual information in terms of type dogs, uses, and requirements to be successful for this vocation. As a German Shepherder person it saddens me, but was not surprising at all. The good thing is sometimes it takes reporting like 60 minutes to open up the eyes of many of our breeders. To that I say Thanks!
 
#2 ·
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
X
#4 ·
#5 ·
I think it is a worthy business. Former Navy Seal and the guy has a heart, not a show-boater.
He also takes retired military dogs for placement as K9 LE's or will place them in a forever home. I didn't get the feeling he is in it for the $ or ego boost.

Well spoken in the interview and you could tell he didn't see the dogs as equipment or tools, but as a partner to be utilized with the talents of a good K9.
Are you able to view the segment x11? Hopefully it will be on Hulu
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#6 ·
#8 ·
CBS morning news is doing a segment/ interview with Mike Ritland this morning.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#11 ·
Unfortunately, the segment on the elite protection dogs clearly indicated that the Belgian Malinois is found to be superior these days by the military. Many of us that work in LE are aware of this being the trend for quite some time. The legacy of the GS and the reality of today's breed are very much different for the most part.
 
#13 ·
It was a good show.

My worry is that the Malinois will become what the Doberman was in the 70's, the Rottweiler was in the 80's, and the Pit Bull is today... a breed that is sought after by bad people for the wrong reasons, and bred indiscriminately by byb's to make a buck... I foresee lots of poorly-bred, unstable Mals running the streets, ending up in shelters, biting people, and getting a bad name.

I dearly hope that this does not happen. It's really up to the breeders to be extremely careful who they sell to, and it's up to all dog-savvy people to educate the general public about this breed. They are a fantastic working dog and belong in the hands of knowledgable, responsible people who have a job for them. I would hate to see this breed get ruined!
 
#14 ·
Freestep said:
It was a good show.

My worry is that the Malinois will become what the Doberman was in the 70's, the Rottweiler was in the 80's, and the Pit Bull is today... a breed that is sought after by bad people for the wrong reasons, and bred indiscriminately by byb's to make a buck... I foresee lots of poorly-bred, unstable Mals running the streets, ending up in shelters, biting people, and getting a bad name.

I dearly hope that this does not happen. It's really up to the breeders to be extremely careful who they sell to, and it's up to all dog-savvy people to educate the general public about this breed. They are a fantastic working dog and belong in the hands of knowledgable, responsible people who have a job for them. I would hate to see this breed get ruined!
Click to expand...

Unfortunately it's already happening. After the seal team stuff and pits getting harder to rescue and breed regulation and all. In some bad neighborhoods in LA you're already seeing GSD's and such. Pits are fading out:(. You know they are not coming from stable dogs either.
 
#15 ·
I personally think that Mals are being used more because of their size and less because its getting harder to find good GSDs. If the military wanted, they could breed GSD and make them exactly what they want. A mal is smaller, easier to carry, cheaper to maintain (less food), and yes, quite driven. But I've also seen Mals that are less driven than my boy and after speaking with the owner was surprised to find out that there is also a show/working division in that breed.
 
#20 ·
I believe what the man on sixty minutes said, I believe what I see today and that is the third most popular breed in world can no longer consistently supply LE/military with good dogs. Size has very little to do with why these agencies don't use GS as much as Mali's. it's the ability to work under stress and health issues. Ask anyone that trained military or police dogs why the Mali is becoming used so much. Why is German police and military using Malinois....surely it is not because they don't have available German Shepherds in Germany. For some it is hard to acknowledge what the breed has become, but for people like police/military, they don't deal in wishes and fishes, they want the best working animal they can get .....simple as that. I know one of the breeding kennels that provides the military many of their dogs, Mike Suttle of Loganhaus kennels. He breeds GS and Malinois for military uses. He KNOWS why the military has relied more on Malis than GS these days.
 
#22 ·
OH, don't worry. The Mal is already going down the pooper. Just takes a little popularity and TV air time to ruin a breed. I've seen quite a few of the showline type Mals lately that are just as bad if not worst than the showline type GSD's people complain about. A guy just came out to our club with his new Mal he got because of his BYB GSD. The dog cowered behind the owner with it's tail tucked between its legs when the helper tried to get the dog to play with the tug. The military might have an easier time finding Mals that fit their niche because there are a handful of good Mal breeders who are producing what they want. But they too are just one TV show away from being in a worse state than GSD's IMO.
 
#23 ·
The GS has a giant population to chose from, the BM is very small in numbers, the Mals are becoming or have become the go to dog. I am not a BM fan, other than immense respect for their working ability....but it is easy to see why the GS is not the supreme utility dog anymore....not even the best sport dog in the sport that was made for them. Check out statistics when these two breeds compete head to head. As long as people have their heads in the sand ( especially breeders ) about the loss of working ability of this breed, the pendulum will not swing back. There is a reason that the breeding kennels that the military has invested in is primarily Mals. I understand the sentiment, and the emotions, but the stats are what they are.
 
X
#24 ·
i have witnessed arguments here on this board where people flatly deny that there are more mals than gsd in leo & mwd, cos they know someone who knows someone who works near a millitary base or police station and they seen a bunch of gsd running around.

i guess the first step in any solution is acknowledging there is in fact a problem.....but then again what problem? a good show line gsd is worth a lot more money in puppy sales and stud fees than two dozen working mals currently serving on the line.

carry on.
 
#25 ·
The fact is that for dual purpose dogs it is easier to find the ball drive we need in mals and dutchies along with the temperament for patrol work. They are cheaper and plentiful overseas. Germans have done away with DPO/WPO and sport is watered down. Those who breed for KNPV are producing what we need in general.
 
#27 ·
I didn't even think of that but as an accountant I always follow the money trail. And that's right, the German imports have a much larger market, with people willing to pay much more for a sport dog than a police department can afford to pay for that same dog to become a patrol dog. And we all know that those sport people aren't switching to Mals out of principle rather than performance. People like to work with breed X and they'll continue to do it and they have the money to afford those good GSDs where the police departments don't. Simple supply and demand, so the police departments will go with a substitute since they don't have a strong feeling towards breed X.
 
#28 ·
Police often pay as much as 7500 dollars for dogs....go to any site that sells to police/military....like AK9 and see how much police will pay for dogs. Or better yet talk to a vendor that supplies to police/military ....you can get a good sport dog for 5, or 6000 dollars....so that is not primary reason ....sure some PD have limited budgets, but many pay top dollar.....Ladylaw gave primary reason and it is supply and demand....that is there are more of the Mals that are capable percentage wise of doing this work....so they meet the supply.
 
#31 ·
Lol dogs capable of dual purpose work are generally above the 7k mark. They are definitely not a cheaper option. Like Cliff says more mals capable of working to a level required by Military and LE. Size is just an added bonus not a deciding factor. I believe Mike Suttle said that he stopped breeding GSDs a while back and only does mals and dutchies. There is a message there for those who want to hear it.

That being said I think the money will keep a lot of breeders in GSDs. You cant just go out and start breeding LE quality Mals and sell them for 5k each.
 
#29 ·
A local police department was just trying to raise $15000 to get a dog. I'm assuming an older what would be considered "green" dog. They ended up having a few very large donations and are now getting two dogs. I'm not sure how much of the $15000 is actually the price of the dog and what part is for training of the handler for the first few months, but I know a person that was offered $15000 for her "green" dog that is about to go for his SchHI this summer.

I remember a post from a while back where someone imported a dog from Germany for 5 figures...it was just a green dog, about 1 year old and clearly not trained in any type of advanced protection or even Schutzhund. The forum ripped apart the video of the dog biting a flirt pole and taking a sleeve and the person left knowing they probably over paid for the dog. Sure...a knowledgeable person would've known to only pay $5000 to $6000 but then there is a whole slew of people that think its cool to import a dog and will pay anything for it.

I once met a lady at a dog park that imported a GSD bitch. I asked her why she imported and she said she just wanted a cool/good pet. Told me the price she paid for her too...$5000. That dog was no different than my boy or any other well bred GSD you could get in the United States. She wasn't getting her because of a special pedigree, or because she was doing some sort of special work with her. She got her because she could afford to and then she could tell people that she had an imported dog. Basically, the "cool" factor. Sadly the police departments have to compete with that cool factor and as of yet, the Malanois hasn't entered that point.
 
#30 ·
Check out KNPV videos and you'll understand why malinois are the breed of choice for military/police.

There is no question that there are GSD out there that are capable of the work, but malinois are much more specifically bred for the work these days. I believe the "breed test", if that is the right term, for malinois is KNPV or ringsport which fairly directly transfers over to what is needed for a military/police dog.

There already are pet malinois out of show-lines. They are a very different dog. I hope those looking to get a malinois will go to the show lines and not working lines. That would be an ideal solution to what people are worried about.
 
German Shepherds Forum
posts
2.7M
members
149K
Since
2002
A forum community dedicated to all German Shepherd owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bloodlines, training, breeding, service dogs, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Information Pictures! Pictures! Pictures! Health Issues General Puppy Stuff General Behavior