Have they tested for Giardia or Coccidia? Oops, I just read that you have. What kind of Giardia test was it? I hear there's a few different types.

 

Yes, three times. I think they've run every fecal test they can run. We've had over $500 dollars worth of tests done on his poop. They even ran a culture and there was no significant findings.

 

My vet ran just the typical fecal ova, parasites, and giardia test, but then we also ran the ELISA giardia test just to confirm.

 

Is it a pudding poo or watery liquid? I would look at the diet. If the tests are all coming back with normal results, your pup may need digestive enzymes, probiotics to get the flora back to normal. Get off the drugs for a bit and rest the system, bland diet. I am no vet tech, but common sense tells me the gut may just need some adjusting. I would suggest a raw diet just to see if this may help, but you wouldn't see immediate results/ his tract is probably raw itself! So cooked ground beef/rinsed well& rice, maybe pumpkin and probiotics for a few days?

 

We actually did a 2 week course of probiotics, early on, and they made no difference. I'm definitely up for trying them again. Is there a particular brand you recommend?

We also just bought SeaMeal (?) by Solid Gold, to see if that helps at all. We started that last night. Given that his food has been EN for so long, we figured a little extra supplement wouldn't hurt.

Thanks for your suggestions! =) We will try anything to get this poor guy's tummy back to normal. It's been a frustrating couple of months!

 

is he on puppy food? maybe its to rich for him and you should get him on adult food. if everything has been checked out, worms, intestinal issues, etc. the food change may do it.....

 

He's on Purina EN, which is an easily digested prescription food. We had him on puppy food for the first couple weeks, but when the diarrhea started, he hasn't been on it since.

I'm thinking we may try one of Wellness' allergy diets with the limited ingredients, to see if that helps at all. It definitely can't make things any worse right now. =)

I've been doing a lot of reading on EPI, but I haven't been able to find any info on its diagnosis in puppies. Are puppies ever diagnosed, or is it always later onset?

 

I would go with a bland diet for a week or so, see if things change. Your appt w/ internist will be helpful, but I am not sure they will even look at the diet. In your practice, do the vets know very much about nutrition?
My opinion is NO puppy food, go to an adult blend, and no corn or chx, maybe a lamb & rice. There are alot of opinions on kibble and many threads here in the nutrition section. I feed raw, so my opinion on kibble is not relavant. I agree with the richness of the food, or overfeeding, causing pudding poo's. And if I overfeed w/ raw, it gets runny.

 

I was going to ask about EPI - I know of a Shepherd that had the same symptoms for months and months as a pup - tests were inconclusive until he was about 8 months old and it did turn out to be EPI - there are some good EPI forums out there. Perhaps join one and ask questions. EPI is treatable but can be costly.

There is a lot of talk on some groups that dogs on a raw diet can help with this type of symptom also. That maybe something that you want to research as well.

Hope that you get to the bottom of the problem soon for both you and the pup. It is always sad when a pup has issues.

Has your vet given you any idea what he or she suspects it could be that is causing this?

 

Originally Posted By: onyx'girlI would go with a bland diet for a week or so, see if things change. Your appt w/ internist will be helpful, but I am not sure they will even look at the diet. In your practice, do the vets know very much about nutrition?
My opinion is NO puppy food, go to an adult blend, and no corn or chx, maybe a lamb & rice. There are alot of opinions on kibble and many threads here in the nutrition section. I feed raw, so my opinion on kibble is not relavant. I agree with the richness of the food, or overfeeding, causing pudding poo's. And if I overfeed w/ raw, it gets runny.

The EN is a bland diet - and when we tried to feed chicken and rice, he refused to eat. He also was on Hills I/D early on, and that didn't help either.

We will definitely consider raw, but I had done some research that seemed to indicate that puppies can sometimes have trouble digesting raw diets, and that it's often better to wait until they're a little older to start feeding.

The vets I work for know the basics about nutrition, but I don't think that they have much more knowledge beyond that. The owner though has been involved with shepherds for years, so she does have a good amount of knowledge on their particularities.

 

I've done a lot of research, but I haven't read any of the forums. I'll have to look into that. My vet seems convinced that EPI is not the root of the problem, because of the fact that he seems so healthy otherwise. She doesn't have any ideas at this point what's going on though, so that's been frustrating. That's why she referred us to the internist, who she has worked with for years, and is a very good diagnostician. We're hoping he might have some new ideas.

Luckily, Jones is such a happy and energetic puppy. That makes me feel a little better that we're taking so dang long to figure out what's wrong with him. It's not for lack of trying though!

Originally Posted By: CalemberI was going to ask about EPI - I know of a Shepherd that had the same symptoms for months and months as a pup - tests were inconclusive until he was about 8 months old and it did turn out to be EPI - there are some good EPI forums out there. Perhaps join one and ask questions. EPI is treatable but can be costly.

There is a lot of talk on some groups that dogs on a raw diet can help with this type of symptom also. That maybe something that you want to research as well.

Hope that you get to the bottom of the problem soon for both you and the pup. It is always sad when a pup has issues.

Has your vet given you any idea what he or she suspects it could be that is causing this?

 

I don't have any recommendations but just want to say how very sorry I am!

Our pupster is 4.5 months, and my heart goes out for what he and you are going through!

You'll do anything to keep them happy and healthy!

I'll be praying for him!

Tanya

 

Thank you so much for your sweet thoughts! =)

We really would do anything if we could fix what's going on, so it's been so frustrating to not be able to find anything that helps. =(

Originally Posted By: caviewI don't have any recommendations but just want to say how very sorry I am!

Our pupster is 4.5 months, and my heart goes out for what he and you are going through!

You'll do anything to keep them happy and healthy!

I'll be praying for him!

Tanya

 

http://www.flintriver.com/Probiotics-Overview.htm
I don't give powderd probiotics, just a natural yogurt w/ active cultures and fresh green tripe which has natural digestive enzymes and probiotics. http://www.greentripe.com/ I get mine from http://www.aplaceforpaws.com as I am located nearer than the first link I posted.
I just read that a goat yogurt may be better, as cow's milk is hard to digest for some dogs. But a spoonfull of yogurt per feeding is beneficial

 

Originally Posted By: onyx'girlhttp://www.flintriver.com/Probiotics-Overview.htm
I don't give powderd probiotics, just a natural yogurt w/ active cultures and fresh green tripe which has natural digestive enzymes and probiotics. http://www.greentripe.com/ I get mine from http://www.aplaceforpaws.com as I am located nearer than the first link I posted.
I just read that a goat yogurt may be better, as cow's milk is hard to digest for some dogs. But a spoonfull of yogurt per feeding is beneficial

Thanks so much for the information! I'll do some looking around, and see what I can find. Even if probiotics don't solve this problem, I know that they're good for him.

 

Change the diet to a higher quality food after a week or so on a bland diet. Sorry to hear about your puppy!! Hope he feels better soon!

 

You could always try digestive enzymes, if they help, then most likely you're looking at
EPI. I wouldn't trust the vet intuition on this - too many GSDs on this board tend to break the rules. It is not common on this board to see pups with EPI, but it happens - I was just reading about it in an article last night.

By bland diet, I would mean a homeprepared diet - no commercial food. If rice and chicken doesn't help it, I would try a different protein.
And then, as a last resort, I would see if Tylan controls it. I would rather use tylan long term than flagyl.

 

I think we're going to switch him back onto a higher quality food, since he seems to have diarrhea no matter what. He wouldn't eat the bland diets that we prepared though, so that doesn't seem to be an option. =(

Is there any reason not to try enzymes without a diagnosis of EPI? Any potential side effects?

We'll definitely talk to the internist about Tylan, and about EPI.

 

There is a sticky on probiotics, and there maybe some EPI threads imbedded in it. The sticky is in this forum. I would get some green tripe and try it. Can't hurt and you have a source of it in your state. There are many EPI dogs on this board. Hopefully some of the more knowledgable members will chime in. Jones(love his name!)weight is good, which makes me think it may not be EPI.
http://www.google.com/search?q=EPI+in+do...ex=&startPage=1

 

Originally Posted By: onyx'girlThere is a sticky on probiotics, and there maybe some EPI threads imbedded in it. The sticky is in this forum. I would get some green tripe and try it. Can't hurt and you have a source of it in your state. There are many EPI dogs on this board. Hopefully some of the more knowledgable members will chime in. Your dogs weight is good, which makes me think it may not be EPI.

Excellent, I'll definitely read the sticky on probiotics. =)

Is green tripe something you order online? I must admit, I'm totally clueless about that.

And my vet keeps saying that his weight wouldn't be as good if it was EPI, but I'm just worried that we're in the early stages of it and it just hasn't progressed.

I think working in a vet hospital dooms a person to always having pets with weird problems and chronic conditions! =)

 

Yes, in my area anyway I can only order the green tripe from the internet. You can get canned, but to me I would rather go w/ fresh/frozen and make sure the natural enzymes are active. I only feed a heeping spoonful per feeding so if you get some it will stretch out. It stinks like a barnyard, and the dogs love it or hate it. If your pup doesn't like it then I would maybe give it in a frozen meatball form or mix it w/ raw egg. Wow, overwhelming info in the last hour for you. I hope tomorrow Jones has a firm poop and you can focus on the fun things in sharing your life with a GSD! I suggest starting another thread with the title EPI pup? and you may get more exposure, link this thread to your OP. We have lots of q's on poop!!!

 

Originally Posted By: onyx'girlYes, in my area anyway I can only order the green tripe from the internet. You can get canned, but to me I would rather go w/ fresh/frozen and make sure the natural enzymes are active. I only feed a heeping spoonful per feeding so if you get some it will stretch out. It stinks like a barnyard, and the dogs love it or hate it. If your pup doesn't like it then I would maybe give it in a frozen meatball form or mix it w/ raw egg. Wow, overwhelming info in the last hour for you. I hope tomorrow Jones has a firm poop and you can focus on the fun things in sharing your life with a GSD!

Hahaha...it is all a bit overwhelming! There is so much information out there, it's hard to know where to start. And while I've had dogs my entire life, he is my first shepherd, so that has been a big transition. He's been a hellbeast (as my boyfriend affectionately refers to him). =)

And we do try to make sure that he is having lots of fun, despite his tummy problems. Lots of trips to Petco, off leash hiking, puppy classes, and every toy his little heart could possibly desire. =)

 

Try substituting sweet potatoes and potatoes and oatmeal for the rice.

Be sure to double cook any grain you use (twice as much water and cook for twice as long.

I puree the chicken. You can also add in an egg or two as the mixture is cooling (I put everything together) and that will give additional flavor and help bind things. If you can find the tripe I'm sure that will get your dog going with the homemade food. They love it!

I am able to get tripe locally here. It comes in a can. I know Solid Gold makes it and a couple of other companies do too. I would avoid yogurt while he has diarrhea because that can make the problem worse. Honestly, 1 tsp. of yogurt will have very little benefit.

I would also try digestive enzymes and some of the things that beneficial to healing the gut. This is my favorite on line store for that sort of thing:

http://search.onlynaturalpet.com/search.aspx?searchterms=diarrhea&mf=0

The GI support is excellent. The Vetri-Science fast balance works as well as Metro (and the VetriScience Acetylator also looks good) and the Homeopet Digestive Upsets works better than metro and has no side effects. Take a look around there and read the reviews.

Have you tried going grain free with your dog in case it's a grain allergy? Feeding a homemade diet without grains would be a good way to tell if that is the problem.

 

The reason we all have such detailed advice is because gsds have notoriously bad digestive systems. When I adopted my first gsd puppy 22 years ago I went through the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!

 

What color is the poop? If it is a yellowy tan he probably has coccidia which is very common in San Diego! I just had two fosters who stool was great, went to another foster home and within a week had the runs. The only thing that will clear up the coccidia is Albon. I would suggest just trying it since it can be hard to diagnose.

You can buy green tripe from Green Tripe.com They are in California and their products are great. There are several raw resources in San Diego, Dexters Deli sells a variety of ground products, SoCal Barf is a group where you can join and order food monthly, and there are a couple Food wholesale places that you can buy cases of food cheap.

I have weaned all my litters on raw, switched dogs and raised a lot of puppies on a raw diet. There are several good books that can give you good information on feeding a balanced diet. I would recommend ordering some of the green tripe products and adding them to his diet. There is also a product call Prozyme which is an enzyme which can help get their digestive tract working correctly again. I have adopted a couple dogs in the past with horrible diarrhea that this helped along with getting the correct medications to knock out the parasites.