Orijen Formula Changes

MrLeadFoot · Jul 4, 2009

Just thought all the Orijen feeders might want to know that Orijen has made some changes to their existing products. Here are some things that have changed:

1) Some ingredients have been removed altogether
2) New ingredients have been added
3) Amount of some constant ingredients has changed
4) Protein has dropped
5) Calories per cup has dropped by approximately 8%
6) Large Breed Puppy formula calcium levels have increased slightly
7) Large Breed Puppy forumla phosporous levels have decreased slightly
8) Glucosamine has doubled in some formulas
9) Chondroitin has increased up to tenfold in some formulas
10) Some, if not all, now list DHA and EPA as a result of deboned salmon. Something to note is that previous formulas also contained the salmon, albeit lower down on the list, but made no mention of DHA and EPA.

While some changes seem minute on paper, some are quite significant, and both myself and my supplier are quite surprised that Champion did not say a word to my supplier, when Champion normally ALWAYS informs suppliers when they change something.

With all the different types of changes, and added listings of benefits in regard to those ingredients that did NOT change, such as the salmon mentioned above, regardless of nutritional pros and cons, I can't help but wonder if the motivations of the changes is purely for marketing (all bags now carry the stamp that they are recognized by the US Glycemic Institute), and to lower costs.

In either case, so far since I've fed the new formula, my dog has had a couple of looser stools, but that does not necessarily mean it's from the formula changes, so I'm just keeping a watchful eye out for now.

marksteven · Jul 4, 2009

I hope they dont pull a CANIDAE and ruin a good food.

Lucy Dog · Jul 4, 2009

Originally Posted By: markstevenI hope they dont pull a CANIDAE and ruin a good food.

I bet canidae lost so much business because of their "improved foruma" that they never let their customers publicablly know about kind of like how orijens doing now. Not an orijen feeder, but i was a canadae feeder. Key word being "was" a canadae feeder

MrLeadFoot · Jul 4, 2009

Apparently, Canidae did a darned good job with its marketing hype to get positioned among the top foods. Canidae is the number 1 seller for one of my suppliers by a LONG shot (on the order of 5x sales of other foods), because of it's low price among "holistic" foods, even though it may not really belong in the category with the likes of Orjien, TOTW, Instinct, EVO, etc.

While it is a GOOD food, it simply is NOT in the same class as Orjien, or some of the other organic, or grain-free foods (although Canidae does have a grain-free formula).

Winkin · Jul 4, 2009

I agree 100% LeadFoot. I fed the old Canidae formula and am now feeding Orijen. You couldn't beat the old Canidae formula in bang-for-buck (even compared to Orijen, in my opinion).

The problem with the Canidae formula change was that they moved to much lower quality ingredients. It doesn't appear Orijen has done that, as the ingredient list is still an All Star Cast. But like you, I am surprised that they did not announce the changes, given Champion Pet Foods previous stance on revealing pretty much anything that pertains to the company and its products.

That said, the changes don't appear to be negative - either positive or neutral, so maybe they didn't think it was necessary. An 8% drop in calories per cup may look negative, but food is sold and fed based on weight (measuring pet food by cups is done for convenience, but not accuracy).

Deejays_Owner · Jul 4, 2009

I have a old bag (Adult), & from the web-site looks like the amount of fresh lake whitefish is only big change.
They have now added fresh pacific salmon, herring meal & fresh northern walleye.
Also moved up on the list sweet potato & peas before the lake whitefish, the northern walleye falls behind the whitefish.

Was 483 kcal/250ml cup, with 45% from protein, 25% from fruit & vegetables and 25% from fat.
Now 450 kcal/250ml cup, with 50% from protein, 25% from fruit & vegetables and 25% from fat.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein (min.) 40.0% was 42%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 2.5% was 3%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%
Calcium (min.) 1.5% Was Calcium 1.5%
Calcium (max.) 1.7%

Phosphorus (min.) 1.2% Was Phosphorus 1.3%
Phosphorus (max.) 1.4%

Omega-6 (min.) 3.0% was 1.5%
Omega-3 (min.) 1.1% was 0.7%

Does not look like a bad change on paper, still have the old bags in the stores here.

MrLeadFoot · Jul 4, 2009

There are also some ingredient changes farther down, too, like where they list the licorice roots and stuff. I don't remember offhand, and not even sure if they're significant or not, but it sure would've been nice to know about ahead of time.

I mean, what if you're someone who's dog had some allergies, and they subtituted something you didn't know about, and your dog goes into anaphylactic shock or something. That would not be kosher. They should AT LEAST have something on the bag that said something like, "Look! Now with xxxxx!" or even "New and Improved". Even if it's only improved in the glucosamine and chondroitin, it's not a lie, but more importantly gives consumers a fair heads up.

But, by saying nothing, some yokel like me gets a hold of it and thinks Canidae all over again, and voices his disagreement with the Champion MBA-thinking, and possibly negatively influences others' perspectives about the company.

On the other hand, to Champion's credit, I noticed that Orijen Red is coming out, which includes red meat proteins. IMHO, I believe that red meat contains more of the amino acids that a dog needs than chicken, and a mixing or rotation of formulas wouldn't be a bad idea, either. Interestingly, the glucosamine and chondroitin levels in the new Red are WAY below other Orijen products; I wonder why. Something else to note is that Red is probably more appropriate for full-blown adults, although I believe a mix with the other lines would probably serve to tone down some adult-targeted levels.

Heather · Jul 4, 2009

Quote:...both myself and my supplier are quite surprised that Champion did not say a word to my supplier, when Champion normally ALWAYS informs suppliers when they change something.

Interesting. I'm a retailer and they informed ME weeks ago about the upcoming changes.

MrLeadFoot · Jul 5, 2009

Maybe the Canadian reps are better than the US reps. Sounds like some housecleaning may be in order.

shets114 · Jul 5, 2009

I would only ask the same as I learned about BG from Merrick. Is the 70% meat before cooking or as fed?
If it is as fed great, if not than it is no better then most grocery store brands other than marketing....

Barb E · Jul 5, 2009

Where the meat lands doesn't make it as bad as teh grocery store brands - nothing can be that bad

Heather · Jul 5, 2009

I have a customer who was feeding Pro Plan Performance to one of her Aussies that plays flyball. She was reluctant to change his food because he was "doing so well on it". She tried a bag of Acana's "Sport and Agility" formula and within two weeks came back to tell me that his ears were no longer "full of gunk" every day and he loved the food.

The Pro Plan was waaay more expensive, and NOT worth the price for what was in it, IMO.

MrLeadFoot · Jul 5, 2009

While I agree with you that Acana is better than Pro Plan, I'd be curious to hear about other changes with that customer's Aussie.

To me, less ear wax doesn't indicate much and could only be a coincidence, and whether or not a dog likes a food or not is not any indication of whether a food is good or not.

I mean, I hear from clients, and see so many posts on this forum, all the time aboout dogs that are "picky" eaters, etc. Obviously, in nature there really is no such thing as a "picky" eater, and this post is not meant to address how we humans are really the ones that create finicky eaters. But, finicky or not, many dogs will devour crappy grocery brands and that doesn't mean the food is better. And, even the most finicky eater will eventually adjust to the taste of a food anyway.

What WOULD be cool is if she could give you more details on other, more significant improvements she notices after the dog's been on the Acana for a bit longer. Typically, I look for things like:

Stool consistency

Coat condition

Altertness

Eyes - brightness, discharge, etc.

Energy (not the same as altertness)

Weight condition

Thickness of skin and subcutaneous fat layer - even if a dog has the proper size and weight ratio, it's easy to see if it's eating too much junk food by the way its skin jiggles - Yecch! :-(

My pup was on Pro Plan when I got her and while I went through quite a few foods with her to find a good one that matches her nutritional needs, I am now on Orijen and I've seen quite a bit of differences in many aspects. Her seemingly high production rate of ear wax is one thing that I can say hasn't been curbed, and unfortunately for my wallet, I'm having to feed upwards of the max portion recommendation to keep weight on her, which goes against the grain (no pun) of what everyone else has said about needing to feed a lesser amout of the "better" foods.

For example, my dog is a bit on what I think the dog "experts" would consider an active dog, although I think her activity level is what it SHOULD be. She does training demos and is a jumping frisbee dog. She gets regular exercise everyday on a rotation which includes a few hours at a dog park, frisbee, fetch, training, and swimming the likes of what a true water dog would do. And, I can't believe I have to feed her 5-6 cups of Orijen a day! If I don't, she drops weight. For example, although she's still a pup coming up on one year in the next few days, at 4 1/2 cups a day she dropped 10% of her weight in less than 30 days! That may not sound like much to notice, but if you think about the fact that she's still growing skeletally, she should be gaining weight, if not at least maintaining weight through growth spurts.

What I'm getting at is, due to what I'm seeing in my particular dog, I can't even IMAGINE what it would be like to fee a less nutritious food. OK, I can imagine it, but would feel I was being cruel to the dog to feed it a grocery store brand, or even one of the many "better" foods carried at PetsMart and Petco (not saying that all their good foods suck, just most of them).

FWIW, I'm awaiting the Orijen Red, because I think my dog might do better on those red meats. In the meantime, I've recently moved to mixing in with the Orijen some TOTW Bison and Venison.

Heather · Jul 5, 2009

Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot... my dog is a bit on what I think the dog "experts" would consider an active dog, although I think her activity level is what it SHOULD be. She does training demos and is a jumping frisbee dog. She gets regular exercise everyday on a rotation which includes a few hours at a dog park, frisbee, fetch, training, and swimming ...

If your dog doesn't have issues with some of the ingredients in the Sport & Agility formula (ie. oatmeal & brown rice), you might want to consider trying that one. I don't normally suggest that one unless the dog is TRULY getting lots of exercise to burn off the 30% fat content.

I have another customer with 2 labs that was feeding the regular adult formula (Acana) but the young lab (a recently acquired rescue) was losing a bit of weight on the Adult formula. They switched that dog to the Sport formula and he's starting to put weight on.

MrLeadFoot · Jul 6, 2009

Thanks for the info. Question:

I can see how the Sport and Agility formula fares over the rest of the Acana line, but in YOUR opinion, do you think it would better serve my dog's needs, who is already on the higher-touted Orijen line?

I see that S&A has brown rice. I previously thought my dog had issues with barley and rice during my travels to find a food that suits her, but I'm not positive, so I am willing to try S&A, especially since it's void of all other grains besides whole oats, which I've learned has the lowest instance of negative reactions as far as grains are concerned.

FWIW, it appears that S&A has only 24% fat, not 30%.

Thanks again.

CarLooSHoo · Jul 6, 2009

Thanks for the info. I recently switched my pup to Orijen

Heather · Jul 6, 2009

Originally Posted By: MrLeadFoot ... in YOUR opinion, do you think it would better serve my dog's needs, who is already on the higher-touted Orijen line?

I think it's worth a try. Orijen is a great food, but some dogs just need something different.

Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootI see that S&A has brown rice. I previously thought my dog had issues with barley and rice during my travels to find a food that suits her, but I'm not positive...

What I would suggest is feeding some brown rice every day for a week or ten days while your dog is still on Orijen (and not changing anything else, like treats) and see if there's any kind of reaction. If all looks good, then I'd say it's worth trying the Sport formula.

Originally Posted By: MrLeadFootFWIW, it appears that S&A has only 24% fat, not 30%.

Oops, my bad. Sorry!

larrydee33 · Jul 16, 2009

Thanks for the info on Orijen.

Orijen Formula Changes

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