Gee there's a surprise

And just like everything else, the rotten eggs will spoil it for everyone else who is legit.

 

i've seen several sites that will do that. Though i never saw one that didnt at least require you to get your vet to sign off that the dog is healthy and your doctor to sign off that a service dog would be beneficial...

 

The article states that there is no law against faking a service dog. I thought that the ADA did include fines for getting caught faking?

 

The article states that there is no law against faking a service dog. I thought that the ADA did include fines for getting caught faking?

Contrary to what many think, the ADA doesn't really address the topic of Service Dogs. It is the Dept. of Justice which has authority over Public Access issues (among many other issues) that deals with SDs.

Some states have State Statutes against faking a SD.

In addition you can be taken to court on Fraud and violations of Health Codes.

And there are companies that sell certifications and ID based on an individual just checking off a box "to verify" that they are disabled and their dog is a SD. Oh, and yes -- they also need a check or access info to your credit card.

 

In addition you can be taken to court on Fraud and violations of Health Codes.

I can not speak for other states, but this is not true here in Indiana. There is currently nothing on the books regarding faking a service dog, it does *not* fit the statue for fraud here, and police can not do anything against a citizen for violation of a health code.

 

These IDs and vest do not make the dog a service dog though. For one thing IDs and vest are not required for service dogs. For another, for a dog to be a service dog the handler must have a disability and the dog must be trained to mitigate it.

 

For the most part that was a really good article. I was surprised, generally I cringe before reading such an article. I think many actually make the problem worse, stating inaccuracies that can influence the type of people that try to fake.

But the law is not so clear about what a service dog is and what a disability is.

"There's always gray areas with all this, and there's a lot of litigation over what's a disability," Melissa said.

This part bugged me, while I do think there needs to be more law on what is and is not a service animal, there IS a lengthy write up on the definition of disability. This is the type of inaccuracy I was just talking about, we see it frequently where people claim that there is not a definition of disability and therefor just because their dr says they're disabled they are protected under the ADA. Its not true, there is a definition and not every medical problem is legally disabling.
Section 902 Definition of the Term Disability

I'm also bothered by their choices of places to test bringing in the fake dog. They state earlier in the article that health codes are broken with fake service dogs... Then they go break them? And admit it in an article? That seems pretty stupid to me. I think they should have chosen places without food involved.

I also wish they had put more emphasis on what CAN be done, and a little less on what cannot be done. I guess its more dramatic though focusing on "nothing can be done!!" But thats another inaccuracy I find dangerous. We see it constantly on here, those who are not fully familiar with the law think that nothing can be done. But things can be done, and the best protection is being familiar with the law instead of focusing on "woe is me, nothing can be done."

Know the law. Know what can and cannot be asked. Know what consequences are involved. Even an actual service dog can be asked to leave if they are causing a disturbance. If the owner asked the right questions and is in doubt, IMO they should ask the person to leave. If its a valid team they have protected themselves. The business owner can sue the individual faking. The individual can be punished for fraud in some states. They can be in trouble for breaking health codes.

How about some dramatic focus on what CAN be done to scare away those fakers?

 

this is disturbing news. So any yahoo dog can become a service dog in the state of ILL.? dangggggggggggggg.

 

It is very unfortunate. People who abuse the system leave those who need a service dog in an uncomfortable situation. There was even an issue in South Texas as well, where an elderly couple were thrown out of their RV lot.
Winter Texan tangles with park over service pup | service, tangles, texan - TheMonitor.com

 

Winter Texan tangles with park over service pup | service, tangles, texan - TheMonitor.com

There are a lot of red flags in that article. Just registering the dog somewhere doesn't make it a service dog, and there was no mention of the training required but just that the dog noticed blood sugar changes by smelling her breath.

If pets are not allowed at the RV park, she either knowingly got a pet dog anyway or already had the dog when she moved there because she did not acquire the dog as a fully trained service dog. If she knowingly got a dog when they don't allow them, she deserved to be kicked out. If she moved in with a service dog without telling them and arranging things in advance, she deserved to be kicked out. And then of course according to the article the RV park says she sold the mobile home and it had nothing to do with the dog, so who knows whats really going on here.

You can't just move somewhere and then say oh yea and I have a service dog. The law is all about reasonable accommodation. When moving somewhere if you have a service dog you arrange things in advance. If they try to deny your service dog, you write a formal letter requesting accommodation under the law. If you are denied this and believe that what you were requesting is in fact reasonable, then you can sue for discrimination. But having a service dog isn't some magical thing that lets you hide or spring things on your landlord.

 

Thats VERY bad. Horrible manners. And yes that could be grounds for having trouble with those in charge of your housing. You can't just spring that on those in charge like that. He definitely could have been kicked out, and then would have had to go to court over it like the lady in the article.

I'm always appalled and shocked when I see people online that think they can just get a service dog or ESA and everything will be ok without actually having to do anything just because they're protected in housing. You still have to go through the correct channels. And if someone is hiding the information, it does make you wonder what else they're hiding. If the dog is actually a service animal and everything is on the up an up, why was it hidden?* Acquiring the SD from a well known and respected organization would at least help in this matter. But with an organization you definitely had plenty of time to inform your housing that you were receiving a SD so thats ridiculous to not give notification. And an organization dog isn't a guarantee, so many "well known" organizations with fancy websites and 501.3(c) status are known in the SD community for churning out undertrained dogs.

*Its like someone going to court to defend their service dog of x years when the landlord, Drs, etc have never heard of the individual having a service dog before this. Does not sound on the up and up. Sounds like someone is faking and just finally got caught. There is NO valid reason to not have your Dr know you have a service animal for your disability, or your landlord to not know you live with a service dog. In the latter example it sounds like someone finally got caught with a pet and is trying the SD excuse.

 

If the dog is actually a service animal and everything is on the up an up, why was it hidden?* Acquiring the SD from a well known and respected organization would at least help in this matter. But with an organization you definitely had plenty of time to inform your housing that you were receiving a SD so thats ridiculous to not give notification. And an organization dog isn't a guarantee, so many "well known" organizations with fancy websites and 501.3(c) status are known in the SD community for churning out undertrained dogs.

My BIL's dog is from one of the well-known guide dog schools.

 

I don't know what the requirements are for someone to have a Service Dog in their rented home - whether they're required to inform the landlord beforehand or not - but I do know what the laws are regarding ESA's because I've researched it a while back when the subject has come up repeatedly on this forum.

There is an exception that allows people who have an ESA to keep their ESA in housing that is otherwise "no pets". However, in order to do so, they are required to request reasonable accommodation from the landlord - in writing. This is usually done by submitting a letter asking for accommodation under the law along with a letter from your doctor stating that you would benefit from an ESA.

You most certainly can NOT just bring an ESA into the home and not tell the landlord, or only tell the landlord after the fact.

From what I understand, a person with a Service Dog may also need to request reasonable accommodation from a landlord prior to moving in with a Service Dog or obtaining a Service Dog while living in a rented home or apartment.

 

They didn't try to hide the dog but they didn't put in a request or ask their landlord if they could have a guide dog, or at least that's what I was told (that they weren't going to ask him ahead of time)... I am sure the landlord would have tried to deny them, but I thought the laws say that you can't deny a service dog? I never knew you had to ask for reasonable request to bring a service dog in your apt, does that mean the landlord can just say no?

 

I thought the laws say that you can't deny a service dog?

Correct. When you are a landlord, you have to make reasonable accommodations for a disabled person who uses a Service Dog, just like you are required to make reasonable accommodations for other tenants with disabilities. Such accommodations may include installing a wheelchair ramp, or hand-holds next to the toilet, for example.

I never knew you had to ask for reasonable request to bring a service dog in your apt, does that mean the landlord can just say no?

No - if the service dog is a legitimate service dog, then the landlord can not say no. The way the laws are written protects both the tenant who has a disability and needs a service dog AND the landlord. A lot of landlords are faced with people who bring in a dog and, if challenged, say, "But he's my Service Dog."

Normally, when someone asks for reasonable accommodation, this is done in writing and often accompanied by a letter from the person's health care professional stating that the person has a disability and that the dog does x types of work and tasks for them to mitigate that disability. This gives the landlord proof that the dog is a real Service Dog and gives him plenty of notice to ensure that not only this tenant can be accommodated but also other tenants in the building. For example, if this is an apartment complex and there is someone with severe dog allergies in the same building as the person with the Service Dog, the landlord would need to accommodate both so they can enjoy the premises they are renting.

Make sense?

 

The laws are all about reasonable accommodation. Thats the basis for housing, public access, etc. For example, if someone tries to claim 3 service dogs (been done, there is a news article about a woman who was refused access to a restaurant because her 3 yorkie service dogs and feels she was discriminated against) is that reasonable? No, its really not. You could try to make an argument saying each dog does something different and explain why one dog can't do it all or why the individual can't acquire a dog that does it all. But probably not going to get you very far.

Springing a SD on your landlord.... While you may make a case for it in court, is seriously bad manners and really not helping you or others with service animals. You request all accommodations (as Chris stated, wheelchair ramps, hand holds, and SDs are all considered accommodations) in writing if the landlord turns you down when having a verbal conversation. Its also probably a good idea to get everything in writing anyway so you don't run into problems down the line. I've never had an issue, I've had landlords say wait we have to charge you a pet deposit for your SD too... But after I explain the laws they backed down. I actually dislike this, I would rather they take me up on the offer to bring in the laws and discuss the matter formally. Taking me at face value can leave them vulnerable to be taken advantage of by someone who doesn't have a SD.

If you request your reasonable accommodations in writing and are denied, then you can go about with a case for discrimination. But as I said, proper channels must be followed. You can't just go ahead and bring a SD in anyway because they're protected. Yes in the end the judge will probably rule that the dog cannot be denied, but you'll have to fight for it and may also result in leaving a bitter landlord who now has an issue against those with service animals. And while waiting for a judges decision, you may be left finding another place to live or dealing with any other sort of illegal activity on behalf of the landlord (as someone who had to sue their ex landlord, some just plain don't care if what they're doing is illegal. Even AFTER having been arrested...)

And like I said earlier, and then Chris pointed out as well, a lot of people just try to hide their dogs and then suddenly say "but he's a service dog.." when caught. It happens. There is NO reason for someone with a valid service animal to be hiding it, so if they are hiding it then it begs the question what else is being hidden or why is it being hidden. Not bothering to inform your landlord because you think its "easier" would be incorrect, because once you're caught and having to defend your need for a service dog and your dogs status as a service dog in court to stay living somewhere with a landlord who now probably not only distrusts you but dislikes you is not going to be easy! Frankly if I was in that situation, I'd move rather than deal with the landlord afterwards.

 

I have a question.... does a landlord have to make accommodations for any disability and if so, are they responsible for the cost? I'm thinking of the place we used to live, a double-family owned by someone in our community, not for-profit company with several properties and a property manager just one guy who moved to a bigger place after having kids and couldn't sell the old place so now he rents it. If someone wanted to live there but needed a ramp, or a special shower, or wider doorways, would the landlord be obligated to provide these things at his own expense? What happens if a landlord genuinely can't afford it? I'm guessing they can't turn down the tenant since wouldn't that be discimination, since basically they'd be denied because of their disability?

Also do you know if Service Dogs are excluded from laws that limit the amount of animals on a property? When we rented, the township allowed three dogs and we had three. What if someone moved in with their Service Dog and now there are four dogs?

Hopefully these questions make sense. Just a few things that came to mind I was curious about.

 

I have a question.... does a landlord have to make accommodations for any disability and if so, are they responsible for the cost? I'm thinking of the place we used to live, a double-family owned by someone in our community, not for-profit company with several properties and a property manager just one guy who moved to a bigger place after having kids and couldn't sell the old place so now he rents it.

No the landlord does not have to make accommodations for any disability. Since accommodations are under the ADA, to start it falls under the definition of legal disability. So the issue has to be something that affects major life activities. Then because it all boils down to whats reasonable, if its something thats not reasonable they do not have to do it. For example take a super old building with no elevator, add in it being historical, maybe buildings bordering it with no space between them. If someone is renting out an apartment on the top floor, it would not be reasonable to install an elevator for a tenant in a wheelchair.

I was just recently reading a thread somewhere about wheelchair accessibility in new york and there were great examples for this. An example in the thread was wheelchair ramps; its not reasonable to build a ramp to a 3rd story walk up restaurant in new york, but it IS to build a ramp to a first floor restaurant that only has 3 steps in front.

Housing falls under the HUD Fair Housing act. There are differences in accommodation depending on who owns the property and what type of property it is. For example, if someone is renting out a bedroom in their own property where they live they are NOT required to accept a disabled tenant or accept a service dog. I'll have to look up the specifics, but there are guidelines for things such as how many properties a person owns, whether or not they live on the property with the tenants and so forth. So rules aren't always the same for the commercial landlord, the individual renting out their dead parents house, or the individual renting out their basement for extra income.

As for who pays... Unfortunately I'm not sure on that. I have some ideas but I don't want to say anything without knowing for sure.

Also do you know if Service Dogs are excluded from laws that limit the amount of animals on a property? When we rented, the township allowed three dogs and we had three. What if someone moved in with their Service Dog and now there are four dogs?

Hopefully these questions make sense. Just a few things that came to mind I was curious about.

This would be another thing that falls under whats reasonable. So there isn't a black and white answer. You could make an argument for both sides, and I think the way you got to the problem matters. For example, were you living on the property that allows 3 dogs and had 3 dogs and then acquired a service animal, or were you living there with your service animal and then acquired 3 more dogs? If its the latter, what did that extra dog have to offer that the first 2 and the SD did not?

Its a similar situation to limited pet housing with a emotional support animal. Say you live in an apartment that only allows one pet, and you have a cat. You want to get a dog as an ESA. What does the dog have to offer as an ESA that the cat could not? Is it reasonable that you need an additional pet to provide the job of an ESA? Or if you're in that housing that allows one pet and you have an ESA, is it reasonable to get a second pet and then just say "the first didn't count, they were my ESA"

I don't think there is a solid answer to this one, at least its not one I've come across if there has been. Since I have 2 GSDs with one being my service dog, I always have to look for pet friendly housing anyway. What I typically do is ask if they allow pets, and if so what is their pet policy. If they said for example they allow dogs and no size limits but no more than one dog, I would say ok but at that time not say anything more. If I was then looking into that property more seriously, I would discuss with someone at the appropriate level that I have a service dog as well. At this point we are only discussing accommodation of the service animal, the approval for my non SD dog has already been taken care of. But like my earlier posts, I would never just go ahead and move in to said property with 2 dogs and wait until I was asked something to say "oh the second dog is my service dog." Everything is arranged in advance.

Your questions make sense, hope I was able to help answer them somewhat!

 

Thanks Lin! I just got to thinking about my previous landlord. He was a nice guy. We had three dogs. I just wondered what would happen if we still lived there and he had a prospective tenant for the other side of the property that had a Service Dog. It's all hypothetical, but I was wondering if he would have to deny the prospective tenant because of the SD because we already had three dogs (on our lease agreement) because zoning only allows three dogs per property in that township, or if he would have to allow the SD and get rid of one of my dogs..... just my mind wandering!