[wuneyewilly]

We just got xrays today and would like some opinions before I state what we were told. We're having them sent in for preliminary analysis as she's 1.5yrs old and will get 2nd/3rd opinions.

 

[wolfstraum]

the hips are not symetrical....the right socket looks odd and the left is much tighter/has little space around it....really have not looked at a lot of elbows - but think there is something wrong there....not sure what it is called, but it does not look like so many others I have seen

Lee

 

[KZoppa]

I'm not an expert by any means and I'm likely way off the mark but looking at the hips, I'm seeing a shallow socket on the dogs left side. The ride side looks okay to me. The positioning on the xrays could also be better though which can effect the view. Elbows, I haven't seen enough to venture any kind of helpful statement but I don't like the wider gaps between the joints. They should be hugging each other and to me, it just doesn't appear they're fitting right. BUT again, I'm not an expert and could very likely be way off the mark.

 

[NancyJ]

Is the gap in the elbows an united aconeal process? I am no expert, just learning. They bother me more than the hips.

The hips...The dog's left hip looks off to me (right on the x-ray) but both heads seem thin with long necks but I know angle is everything with hip x-rays and I have not looked at a ton. It seems to me they look like they would be pretty liveable though without any kind of intervention. I have certainly seen a lot worse.

 

[NancyJ]

Edit I meant "un-united" What did the vet think?

 

[wuneyewilly]

Here's a bit more background and what we were told. Took her in for a left rear limp that has come and gone over the past month. No lameness prior aside from a bout of rear pano and another in the front 5+ months back. We've always fed low calorie, kept her thin, no jumping or jogging aside from grass or dirt, tried to keep calcium/phosphorous levels low and correct ratio, kibble/raw dinners/breakfast, Springtime Joint, Ester-C, salmon oil, Sea Meal, Vit E, etc...she eats far better than us.

We explained her symptoms of rear limp and cracking/popping front, and his initial observation of her walk made him think she'd have HD issues so he palpated and manipulated her prior to conscious xrays. He was surprised that she had full movement and didnt complain. He did the manipulation test for HD that I've read of but cant recall the processes name ???

Rear xrays were surmised as fine, well seated with minimal luxation. Front xrays exposed UAP as jocoyn noted. So, clearly she's in for two front surguries but he explained the rear limp as her over-compensating weight to the rear due to the UAP in the front, which I ponder on. The hip xrays arent the best, and you can tell her left isnt quite parallel to her right, making that leg appear shorter and thinner in the neck into the ball. The initial 'brighter' xray has them a bit more parallel than the 'real' xray. From what human xray technicians I know have said (I know many in the field) about the rear is they look fine enough to not cause her issues, not excellent but not dysplastic, which matches the vets observations. Planning to send the min for prelims.

So her limp. I'm left needed another opinion. When she's on her back relaxed for a rub, slightly twisting her feet, the left knee seems much more loose than the right. Vet noted she's using her right more, has more muscle tone. He checked all her ligaments including her knees and said her back-end was fine, no concerns.

Thoughts on over-compensating the rear to help take some of the "60%" burden off the front?

 

[NancyJ]

I have never dealt with ED myself. It sounds plausible. I know when they get arthritic in the back, the front will compensate and I have had some older ones look like the incredible hulk up front with the muscles wasting away in the back. So it seems if the front was weak the back would try to compensate but the front of the dog is what is designed to carry most of the weight in the first place........so it is probably harder on the back to do that job as well.

I assume you are going to an ortho specialist? It would be worth working with one of them because they can probably do these surgeries blindfolded.......and they may give you insights.

When I had one with HD in the rear, the best investment I made was in a doggie rehab vet. She showed me how to properly excercise and stretch my dog to maximiize muscle mass and stability and how to excercise her without stressing her too much. It was money well spent.

I am sorry for your issues. That kind of thing is heartbreaking. [Memories of how I felt when one of mine was diagnosed with severed HD] Do you have insurance (like Pet Plan)?

 

[carmspack]

the OP's

 

[carmspack]

put the OP's and Nancy dear Grim who was still good at 8 1/2 years up for a comparasin

 

[wuneyewilly]

Yes, the xraying vet came highly recommended but isnt our normal vet. They do ortho surgeries but arent as local as another ortho clinic that is supposed to be 'the spot' for our area, SFO (vetortho/Dr. Brown). We'll definitely be getting their opinion and will likely use them for procedures.
I also compared against OFFA.org and considering the quality level of the xray comparitively and with all hip diagnostics received, I'm really not concerned with hips today. Her elbows are obvious and I suspect she may have gotten a luxating patella or perhaps hyperextended her leg from a rolling body slam her BFF may have given her (they play rough and body roll/slam each other but merely hypothesizing).

Compared to the ~9yr old's xray, I can tell that male is much more heavy boned, and there clearly are structural differences btwn working and German show. She's flucuates in the low 70lbs.

Would a hyperextended knee from the side still be considered a luxating patella?

Next ortho apt/opinion is Monday...

 

[BlackthornGSD]

The pelvic positioning is very straight, but the knees/legs aren't really in the right position--they need to be pulled down more.

However, I don't think the hips are a problem.

In all the elbow xrays I've ever seen the elbows are fully bent. Here's a couple of good images showing what to look for:

Michigan Veterinary Specialists - Ununited Anconeal Process of the Elbow

I think almost anything is possible as far as causing the rear end discomfort--it could be pano or an injury or a compensation issue.

Christine

 

[NancyJ]

Yes, not sure why Carmen posted my dog's x-rays so maybe she can clarify. Actually that was an x-ray looking for spine problems, not a hip shot (same knee position though) but I did post it in another thread to see if anyone else could see anything on the spine and commented on how nice those old 8.5 year old hips looked because he was run hard and put up wet.

So that is why I said I had not seen enough hips to know. But you have several replies by breeders who would def know more. The post by Christine on the UAP is a nice one.

 

[gsdlover91]

I notice a UAP in the elbows.

 

[wuneyewilly]

My brief UAP research has so far highlighted three procedures to remediate UAP. 1) cut the leg bone to let the plates catch up and close yet this is only for young pups, 2) remove the ununited spur bit, 3) screw together. I havent seen any procedures describe the spur was removed and also screwed together. I'm not sure if that is a given when going the screw route or if those procedures are exclusive to each other.

As serious as the UAP surgeries are, I find myself more worried why she's favoring her left rear so much that the muscle mass is sharply declining. The popping and clicking in her front started maybe 2-3 months back and I didnt think much of it since she didnt favor a leg...and I pop and click. The elbows were a total surprise and we always anticipated rear issues, with her being SL. She's always been described as all muscle as we are really active so I can easily feel the difference btwn the legs. Hopefully the next ortho vet on Monday can shed more light. Also, we had just gotten Pet Plan a month ago so not sure how that'll play/pay out. Stay tuned