German Shepherds Forum banner
21 - 31 of 31 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
5,859 Posts
Sure,
Seizures, Cancer, Skin problems, Neurological issues, Allergies, Weakened immune systems leading to vulnerability to other illnesses like Lyme etc..
Not to mention what they can do to the humans that live in close quarters to these poor animals, especially children.
Im not looking to get into a debate over this, Ive seen enough with my own eyes and no one will change my mind on this subject
I'm interested in what you have actually witnessed, not internet stuff.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,497 Posts
Sure, most notably flea and tick medications.
Seizures, Cancer, Skin problems, Neurological issues, Allergies, Weakened immune systems leading to vulnerability to other illnesses like Lyme etc..
Just want to let you know, my 11 year old dog was never on any meds because we lived in a place that had no fleas, no ticks, no heartworm.
She has all of those issues.
It's not always as simple as you seem to think.
If you lived in a borderline area, with moderate risk, your plan would be good. But not in a place where it's so high risk. Because your argument that healthy, well bred dogs on a good diet are better able to fend off these things holds some water, in a lower risk environment. If you were in Canada, not in Florida.
Good luck to your dog. Hoping he does not pay the price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,908 Posts
Sure, most notably flea and tick medications.
Seizures, Cancer, Skin problems, Neurological issues, Allergies, Weakened immune systems leading to vulnerability to other illnesses like Lyme etc..
Not to mention what they can do to the humans that live in close quarters to these poor animals, especially children.
Im not looking to get into a debate over this, Ive seen enough with my own eyes and no one will change my mind on this subject
I agree with this. Not a fan of flea and tick meds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,629 Posts
I don't think you look for advice but to confirm that you are right. Would you trust a vet to do a fecal or would you rather do that yourself?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,908 Posts
What is confusing to me in all of this, is that OP wants to deworm dogs that might or might not need it.

At the same time, there is a serious distrust in veterinarians because supposedly they medicate unnecessarily 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,356 Posts
Panacur (fenbenzadole) is a very safe, broad dewormer. I've given Panacur liquid to a lot of foster dogs with my vet's approval. She has us do 3-5 days of it, usually. The canine granules do not require a RX and are easy to dose using the instructions on the package. If your dog doesn't need it, it's wasted money.

If you don't want a relationship with a vet because you don't trust any of them, how about just going to a feed store clinic event? You don't have to ever see them again, but they'll run a HW test for you and script out appropriately dosed monthly prevention -- or even do the calculation for you if you're using a large-animal formulation. If you like ivermectin, you can get the right dose of it to give to a HW-negative dog, with a low dose of dewormer already in it.

Generics like Tri-heart Plus and Iverheart will save you a lot over the name-brand Heartgard. You can even order them online from Allivet.com or another reputable pharmacy for around $5 per month. If you get the "plus" type, your dewormer will be covered too.

That way, you're only paying for the test and the meds -- you won't have to sign up for anything else you might not want, since the feed store clinics only offer basic services. Tractor Supply runs these sorts of things about once a month. Maybe you'll meet a vet at one that you think more of -- farm vets sometimes are more "down home" than "city vets," which suits some clients better.

Here's the thing with heartworms -- which are rampant in Florida -- prevention only works for the first 3 months of the HW lifecycle. After that, the worms are too big to be killed by Ivermectin (though it may shorten their lifespan and cause them to die in a couple of years). The actual treatment for HW infections is a ghastly ARSENIC-BASED drug, and the damage done to pulmonary arteries by HW is believed to be PERMANENT (= possibly life shortening, forever-damage). In weighing the risk of injecting the dog with arsenic vs. a small dose of monthly ivermectin in Heartgard-type pills, I'll choose the prevention pill every time. The arsenic-based treatment cost about $1500, and the shots are excruciating, requiring an overnight stay and pain meds. Some dogs can't walk on the leg that got the shot for a week or more. They are lethargic and sick after getting those shots. Most people who've been through that with a dog would do anything to not do it again -- I've done it too many times with foster dogs, and sometimes the HW+ dogs die during treatment even when your vet does everything right.

Ignore the HW infection because you don't want to treat it? It's one of the worst deaths I've ever seen as a rescuer. It's not a good death for any dog. It's slow, painful, progressive, and they drown in their own fluids.

As for DIY with farm-animal ivermectin, please know that overdosing a dog with a farm-animal formulation can cause irreversible neurological damage -- I fostered a dog whose math-impaired owner unwittingly caused brain-damage by using undiluted cattle Ivomec at too high of a dose. One little dosing mistake destroyed his dog. Farm vets often will help with proper dosing for clients who have both dogs and also farm animals -- diluting it and then still dosing it in drops, not CCs. However, once there are actual heartworms, high doses of Ivermectin really should not be given -- vets won't treat demodex or other problems with the usual high dose ivermectin in HW+ dogs because of the risk of a fatal lung embollism. Using liquid ivermectin is no-go for those dogs. That's why they run a $30-ish heartworm test before giving it -- safety for your dog.

One of my best friends is a vet -- a really stinking good one who's in the trenches in Louisiana in destroyed communities doing emergency work in shelters because she really cares. If she could be my primary care physician, I would trust her over any MD I've ever met. I very much hope that someday you find a vet you can trust -- there are some really excellent ones out there, and some really bad ones too. We all need a veterinary partner we can trust for our dogs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,356 Posts
I am now looking into a dose of Fenbendazole for tapeworms.
Oops--just spotted this. Fenbendazole doesn't cover tapeworms -- it covers lots of other kinds, but not tapes. For tapes, you need Praziquantel. Or prescription-strength Drontal Plus from the vet has both. Any dog with tapeworm segments in its feces needs to be on a flea-prevention regimen. Tapeworms are transmitted by fleas.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,793 Posts
Oops--just spotted this. Fenbendazole doesn't cover tapeworms -- it covers lots of other kinds, but not tapes. For tapes, you need Praziquantel. Or prescription-strength Drontal Plus from the vet has both. Any dog with tape worm needs to be on a flea-prevention regimen. Tapeworms are transmitted by fleas.
This is why if I suspect an issue, I will use two different types.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
It's not unusual to see no sign of worms since the eggs are microscopic.Fleas are the biggest spreader of tape worms, which sometimes segments show up in their poop that look like rice.Are your dogs getting year round heartworm preventitve? They will need it being in Florida. Legally they must be vaccinated for rabies every three years. Time to schedule vet appts. and go over all of this with a professional.
Hello,
I have a 2 year old German Shepherd and he is perfectly healthy but I would like to de-worm him.
I haven’t seen signs of worms, admittedly I have not looked much. He has spent most of his life eating chicken poop, he has a strange addiction.
last summer we also had a male goat and he was also addicted to eating his poop as well.
He got his normal shots as a puppy but that was all, nothing since.
We live in Florida now from upstate NY and here we have fleas.
I have heard that fleas can cause problems with worms also, so with all of these factors I imagine it would be smart to de-worm him.
We also have a 15year old little terrier dog that hasn’t been to the vet in a long time, and I heard that you need to worm both dogs at the same time?.
All advice is very welcome and appreciated! Thank you



View attachment 578399
I believe you have your dog in a no win situation here. Heart worms are very real and they thrive in the SE. my rescue is being treated for them as I write this. It’s a lot cheaper and SAFER to prevent the infestation.
DE may help with intestinal parasites but not heart worms. Heart worms kill many dogs and the treatment is not cheap or safe for the dog.
I understand your reluctance and always get titer tests for the annual so called vaccines the Vets make all their money on. Please understand the cost to the dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I don't think you look for advice but to confirm that you are right. Would you trust a vet to do a fecal or would you rather do that yourself?
I would absolutely trust a vet to do this, as I cannot do it myself and there is zero risk to the dog. Lets be reasonable here..


What is confusing to me in all of this, is that OP wants to deworm dogs that might or might not need it.

At the same time, there is a serious distrust in veterinarians because supposedly they medicate unnecessarily 🤷🏻‍♀️
Exactly, I dont NEED to worm my dog because there are no signs of any problems, but here I am trying to take some steps to keep him safe. I have boundaries, that's my personal choice. This is a discussion zone, if people want to help me find options within my personal limits please do. If not, also fine. I appreciate all of the advice. Ive learned a lot here.


Panacur (fenbenzadole) is a very safe, broad dewormer. I've given Panacur liquid to a lot of foster dogs with my vet's approval. She has us do 3-5 days of it, usually. The canine granules do not require a RX and are easy to dose using the instructions on the package. If your dog doesn't need it, it's wasted money.

If you don't want a relationship with a vet because you don't trust any of them, how about just going to a feed store clinic event? You don't have to ever see them again, but they'll run a HW test for you and script out appropriately dosed monthly prevention -- or even do the calculation for you if you're using a large-animal formulation. If you like ivermectin, you can get the right dose of it to give to a HW-negative dog, with a low dose of dewormer already in it.

Generics like Tri-heart Plus and Iverheart will save you a lot over the name-brand Heartgard. You can even order them online from Allivet.com or another reputable pharmacy for around $5 per month. If you get the "plus" type, your dewormer will be covered too.

That way, you're only paying for the test and the meds -- you won't have to sign up for anything else you might not want, since the feed store clinics only offer basic services. Tractor Supply runs these sorts of things about once a month. Maybe you'll meet a vet at one that you think more of -- farm vets sometimes are more "down home" than "city vets," which suits some clients better.

Here's the thing with heartworms -- which are rampant in Florida -- prevention only works for the first 3 months of the HW lifecycle. After that, the worms are too big to be killed by Ivermectin (though it may shorten their lifespan and cause them to die in a couple of years). The actual treatment for HW infections is a ghastly ARSENIC-BASED drug, and the damage done to pulmonary arteries by HW is believed to be PERMANENT (= possibly life shortening, forever-damage). In weighing the risk of injecting the dog with arsenic vs. a small dose of monthly ivermectin in Heartgard-type pills, I'll choose the prevention pill every time. The arsenic-based treatment cost about $1500, and the shots are excruciating, requiring an overnight stay and pain meds. Some dogs can't walk on the leg that got the shot for a week or more. They are lethargic and sick after getting those shots. Most people who've been through that with a dog would do anything to not do it again -- I've done it too many times with foster dogs, and sometimes the HW+ dogs die during treatment even when your vet does everything right.

Ignore the HW infection because you don't want to treat it? It's one of the worst deaths I've ever seen as a rescuer. It's not a good death for any dog. It's slow, painful, progressive, and they drown in their own fluids.

As for DIY with farm-animal ivermectin, please know that overdosing a dog with a farm-animal formulation can cause irreversible neurological damage -- I fostered a dog whose math-impaired owner unwittingly caused brain-damage by using undiluted cattle Ivomec at too high of a dose. One little dosing mistake destroyed his dog. Farm vets often will help with proper dosing for clients who have both dogs and also farm animals -- diluting it and then still dosing it in drops, not CCs. However, once there are actual heartworms, high doses of Ivermectin really should not be given -- vets won't treat demodex or other problems with the usual high dose ivermectin in HW+ dogs because of the risk of a fatal lung embollism. Using liquid ivermectin is no-go for those dogs. That's why they run a $30-ish heartworm test before giving it -- safety for your dog.

One of my best friends is a vet -- a really stinking good one who's in the trenches in Louisiana in destroyed communities doing emergency work in shelters because she really cares. If she could be my primary care physician, I would trust her over any MD I've ever met. I very much hope that someday you find a vet you can trust -- there are some really excellent ones out there, and some really bad ones too. We all need a veterinary partner we can trust for our dogs!
I have a vet that I trust fairly well. The thing is, I dont let vets tell me what to do, and for those that do let that happen, good for them.
I listen to what the vet has to say, then I do my own research and go from there. Second opinions are valuable. Having the internet we can do so much research and there are usually many angles and pathways to the same end-goal.
I chose to use the Ivermectin on my dog. I decided that the risk of him already having heartworms was low enough where he would be fine to treat now and start the preventative maintenance..
I am very good with directions, math, and calculations, and felt confident enough to make the diluted medicine and give it to him. I used a low dose since it was his first time and there was a possibility of him having the mutant gene. He doesn't, and all is well.
I WILL be giving him Ivermectin regularily enough to prevent an infestation.
We do not live in the south full time. We have only been here for a few months. Last winter and every winter of his life was in an extremely cold environment.
We are not here permanently.
Ill look into Paz for tapeworms and plan to get a fecal test fairly soon.
I appreciate your input :)

Fleas are pure evil.
They really are!
I believe you have your dog in a no win situation here. Heart worms are very real and they thrive in the SE. my rescue is being treated for them as I write this. It’s a lot cheaper and SAFER to prevent the infestation.
DE may help with intestinal parasites but not heart worms. Heart worms kill many dogs and the treatment is not cheap or safe for the dog.
I understand your reluctance and always get titer tests for the annual so called vaccines the Vets make all their money on. Please understand the cost to the dog.
I am using Ivermectin for heart worm meds as a preventative now :)
 
21 - 31 of 31 Posts
Top