German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been working on recall with my dog increasing the distance for recall and now have a problem with her stay command. First I have her sit and stay in a position so I can walk a distance away from her in order to call her to come. I am using food and lots of praise to reward her when she comes. When she comes she will sit in front of me as the conclusion of the come command. I think she now anticipates the reward and will start to come before I call her so I have to put her back in her starting spot and try again. Maybe I have created a pattern so I have to undo this. So now I am back to working on her stay. So I will put her in a sit stay and walk a short distance before she tries to follow, then return to her to reward her stay. My plan is to increase the distance in order for her to work to the stay rather than the recall, then proceed to recall. Does this make sense or is there a better way to do this? And yes I know if I put her in a sit, the stay should be automatic :).

Glenn
 

·
Moderator who has gone to the dogs
Joined
·
14,619 Posts
When I am working on TRAINING the recall I never use a "stay" command. I will use "WAIT" which in the human context has the dog in the same position UNTIL another command is given.

I would go back and mix up the recall and returning to the dog without a recall. GO back to using shorter distances and continually mix up both AND work on some other commands too. Routines are too easy on a GSD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,577 Posts
Jax does this with me too. She's anticipating my next command so i have to mix it up.

When I tell her to Come she does an automatic heal because that was always my next command. I can't seem to break her of it so I'm going to have to come up with a different command to stop her at the front.

I wish my dog wasn't smarter than me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,237 Posts
I very rarely do a stay and the long distance recall together.
I may walk out the 40 paces and then return to the dog, then walk out again and do a recall.
 

·
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
Joined
·
13,571 Posts
The dog anticipating the next command, and thus breaking the stay in order to jump the gun on the recall is very common. Though it's a short term thing and simply due to the dog anticipating the command that has been worked on the most recently.

I prefer to work on recalls in situations other than where I place the dog in a sit or down stay and then call the dog for this very reason, as recalls will often screw up the stays for a while. When I do a recall from a stay, I *always* make sure to vary not just distance but how many times I stop before I actually give the recall command. I may stop and turn to face the dog, then turn back around and walk further out, 3 or 4 times before I get around to the recall. This way the dog doesn't know when the command will come and doesn't start to assume that it will come as soon as I stop and turn, because usually I stop and turn several times first. So the dog is ready for the command when it does, but is less likely to anticipate and jump the gun the very first time I turn to face him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,840 Posts
I think that is a good start. A couple of other things I might try to add ( have a feeling you've probably tried a few)

Mix up your motion (and your commands) while Juli's in a stay. Go off to the right, to the left. Return to her walk around and walk right back out away from her. Dance a little jig.

When you get back to doing the recall, do it from a shorter distance and do not always recall. Tell her to down (and if she does walk in and praise!). If you're using "come", pick out some words that are similar and proof her with them by saying something else.

Be very aware of your body/head motion on the recall as well.

Think about the command words for both parts of the recall. If I use stay, it says I plan on returning to the dog. I use wait to communicate that something else is going to occur- another command, a break, I might return etc. I also use the word front if I want him to come all the way into me. If I plan on doing something like a drop on the recall, then I use the word come.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,348 Posts
Originally Posted By: Chris Wild When I do a recall from a stay, I *always* make sure to vary not just distance but how many times I stop before I actually give the recall command. I may stop and turn to face the dog, then turn back around and walk further out, 3 or 4 times before I get around to the recall. This way the dog doesn't know when the command will come and doesn't start to assume that it will come as soon as I stop and turn, because usually I stop and turn several times first. So the dog is ready for the command when it does, but is less likely to anticipate and jump the gun the very first time I turn to face him.
We do like Chris has said, also we add crazy words, makes them think also.
They will also anticipate on your voice as well.
So you can stop turn yell out "peanut", the dog should not move,
sometimes use "come" or turn & walk back or father away.
My daughter has had me laughing so hard some nights with the crazy words she uses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Thank you all for the excellent advice. I do have to mix things up more so she will not learn that she only has to come after a sit stay command. I also use her ball for reward and will call her after she retrieves the ball which is challenging for her since she already has a reward. She already knows the wait command. In the past I use it when on a casual walk on 15 foot line and she gets too far ahead and I want to catch up to her and put her in heel position. I could use recall for that as well. I will start to mix it up more so she has to wait for command instead of following a pattern.

Glenn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,348 Posts
Reward with the ball too, and don't always have them sit, free them a few feet from you.
You will get a faster recall that way, also don't have them finish to often after a front sit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
This is what I do (and how my trainer taught us) and it works wonders. NEVER RELEASE THE DOG FROM A STAY UNLESS YOU'RE AT HEEL POSITION AND MAKING FOCUSED EYE CONTACT. That was a rule my trainers instilled on us from day 1 and it really helps.

I'll tell Marshall to "wait" and use a recall out of that sometimes...but make sure he can differentiate that in a "wait" he may be released from somewhere other than heel position. A "stay" requires heel position and eye contact to be released.

If you train it that way, the dog won't anticipate getting released from the stay until you're back at his side and he's making eye contact. It really takes that frustration away from them IMO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,577 Posts
Oh...what a great way to do that!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
Originally Posted By: Jax08Jax does this with me too. She's anticipating my next command so i have to mix it up.

When I tell her to Come she does an automatic heal because that was always my next command. I can't seem to break her of it so I'm going to have to come up with a different command to stop her at the front.

I wish my dog wasn't smarter than me!
This happened with Dante as well, so for a time I did them in the house in the hallway and I stood with my left side pressed to the wall so he couldn't get into the heel position


Once in awhile he'll do it now if I've gone too long without working on it - now I just turn myself to be in front of him, give a small reward and do it again, he's not yet done the heel position more than once.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
693 Posts
Have you tried stays with a 25 long line, and gently tugging the dog towards you and making sure she stays (and praising her when she stays planted)? That is something I do because I think it helps build restraint into the stay, since they have to actively work to stay there, rather than getting bored and thinking of something else to do.

As far as overcoming the breaking stay problem, I'd try the tugging/rewarding, and continue working on the stay while adding other distractions. I think if you strengthened the stay command (with distractions, stay when ball is thrown, stay with tugging, etc.) then you could do stay->recalls all day long with no breaking of the stay in anticipation of the next command. After all, the command at hand is to STAY, period.

I train my dogs myself most of the time, and do stay>recalls as part of the routine (also do throw ball and recall back to me, then release to get ball) and they are very solid with stays, no matter how many repetitions of stay->recalls we do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,577 Posts
I tried what Christian2009 suggested last night and it was an amazing difference. She was starting to relax in the Stay and was more alert in the Wait. I really like the whole concept.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I worked on Juli's stay and recall last night and she is already doing much better. I put her in a stay and instead of just going out to my spot for recall, I will walk in a random manner, even circle around her while she keeps looking at me for the next command, then I called her at some point and she came, or I will returned to her and rewarded her stay. Also I had my daughter with me to help training. This was interesting because I wanted to see how she would respond to my 13 year old daughter Alexis. At first Juli was a little confused because I usually train her alone or with my trainer so when Alexis called her she looked back at me as if to say do I have permission to go or am I still under your control. I released her to go to Alexis and she understood the game. We did some recall back and forth and she had a lot of fun with that. Also tested some of her basic obedience with Alexis and Juli did very well. It was very helpful to have Alexis work with me on training and it was fun for all of us!

Glenn
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top