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is there any difference in physical appearance between the two?? b4 i joined this site i didnt know that there was a difference. i just thought that a german shepherd was a german shepherd not a showline or a working line. and haveing that is there a physical difference between american breeds and german breeds czech etc etc or is it just where they come from??
 

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I was like you Steve, and suspect that the majority of people aren't aware of the differences between the types. I used to think that a German Shepherd was a German Shepherd, was a German Shepherd. They came in Black and Tan, short coat, long coat, and sometimes in black or in white.

The first time I saw a sable and a bi-color working-line, I did not recognize them to be German Shepherds. Their structure and overall look seemed so different to me.

This board has been a real education!
 

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LOL - I can tell you that my blanket black female WGr Working lines female is "crossed with a doberman" and my male dark sable Czech dog "has wolf in him"
 

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Originally Posted By: Nancy JLOL - I can tell you that my blanket black female WGr Working lines female is "crossed with a doberman" and my male dark sable Czech dog "has wolf in him"
Hey, mine too! How weird is that!


And of course, our solid blacks are all Lab mixes......
 

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The guy who lives beside me has a wolf hybrid. That's what he calls it, but its a GSDx Timber wolf. Looks mostly like a wolf. he isn't shy or timid or agressive....dog thinks he is toy poodle sized and should be on your lap. The weird thing about him is he wont consider you a friend unless he can sniff the top of your head. once he does that he's fine....weird dog.
 

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Originally Posted By: RomanceThe guy who lives beside me has a wolf hybrid. That's what he calls it, but its a GSDx Timber wolf. Looks mostly like a wolf. he isn't shy or timid or agressive....dog thinks he is toy poodle sized and should be on your lap. The weird thing about him is he wont consider you a friend unless he can sniff the top of your head. once he does that he's fine....weird dog.
No offence but what does that have to do with this thread?


You do realize that Nancy and Chris were being sarcastic and not literal.
 

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Great Article Chris, when is the book coming out?

Just loved the part on American Backyard Bred
 

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To expand on the wonderful information already posted, a working line is about as close as you'd get to the originally envisioned GSD. The American line is what you would normally see on the Eukanuba and the Westminster dog shows, but they are pretty far from the originally intended GSD. German showlines, well some are close and some are not.

American line German shepherds are judged against the AKC standard. All other lines are judged against the FCI standard which the SV (original breed club based out of Germany) uses. Unfortunately, tastes and big names have influenced how the standard is interpreted by a judge.

Someone on the GSD Pedigree database summed it up very well. To paraphrase: The showlines (American or German) hold physical appearance and movement above all else. Working quality is considered in the German lines to a higher degree than in the American lines. The working lines put ability above beauty and movement and feel that the ability to work and work well will grant the structure and movement to make that ability possible. Do note that this is a general rule- there are showline dogs that can work very well and there are working lines who do their best work while on the couch.

You will find strong biases with almost anyone who is "into" the breed. I am a working line person and that goes any dog. Be it GSD, terrier, border collie, rottie, or springer spaniel, give me a dog that is bred to do what it was designed to do, not one bred to an idealistic version. I make no apologies for my bias and I sure don't hide it.
We have diehard show people on here too which is an excellent balance. If you have a question on ANY line or type of GSD, there will be an expert here to help you out. Even if you have questions on a specific dog or breeding, chances are someone here will know.

Steve, I think you are probably within driving distance of a schutzhund club. You may be able to see working lines and German showlines at a schutzhund club. Go to a GSDCA (GSD Club of America) club/show and you'll be able to see the American lines. I highly recommend that anyone who has a question on lines to go see each one in person. You may go into the club or show liking one line and come out loving another.
 

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Yup, the best thing to do is to see the differences with your own eyes. Don't spend too much time on the Internet "researching".
Attend a shutzhund trail. It's often easy to see working lines and SV showlines showing in the same trial.
Attend an AKC show to see AKC showlines in person.
I was once a member of a GSDCA that had working line, SV showline and AKC showline people as members. The club held free obedience classes twice a week and you could see all the different types of GSDs that members brought to the classes in the same place. It was really a great group, people didn't say negative things about other people's dogs. A lot of people owned GSDs of different types. One thing noticeable though is that a lot of the AKC show people, even the breeders, ended up owning a working line dog a few months after joining the club - they just couldn't resist LOL.
 

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I can attest to the value of seeing all sorts of GSDs in person! I just adopted a show line GSD with a LOT of angulation in the rear. Never having seen a dog like this in person, I totally freaked out thinking he was crippled and was walking funny.

I was only used to more moderately angulated dogs, so seeing Ruger was startling. I'm used to it now, but it really struck me as "What's wrong with this dog??" It's different looking at pictures and seeing them in person.
 

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Hey Steve

That page was taken from The Illustrated Standard Of The German Shepherd Dog by Linda Shaw.
If you read the whole thing it breaks down all the parts (head, back etc.) & Movement within the 3 Sub groups.

(A High-line with good Working Ability is the closest to the Breed Standard)
 

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Quote: (A High-line with good Working Ability is the closest to the Breed Standard)
I have to disagree with you there. I have seen more working line GSD's that I would want to incorporate into my breeding program than High line. I just love Angela's Diesel (sp?) and several of Anne Kent's dogs as well have the type and movement I could do well with in the AKC allbreed show ring. That way I would have a dog that can work (by my definition) and show at the same time, like I do know.
 

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Daphne

The OP asked about difference in physical appearance.

And we are taking in general, and I added the Working Ability to what Linda Shaw said.

Quote: West German Show (High Lines). This is the breed type most popular in Germany, and which at its best probably comes closest to the Breed Standard.
And I agree, I have seen some GREAT working-line dogs


Linda Shaw, did a lot of work studing the standard (I beleve she has working-lines) but based on the FCI. Standard in general they are the closest to the Breed Standard.
 

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Where, specifically, does the workingline dog tend to deviate more from the actual written standard than the showline and not just someones "interpretation" of the standard?
 

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My interpretation of what I have read from may sources, is that most of it comes from the angle of the croup in working-lines
in General have very short and STEEP croups and this determine the dog's under-reach and follow-through.
The angle and length of the croup (and those of the upper and lower thighs) determine the angles of rear follow-through and under-reach.
The dog's angle of rear follow-through is equivalent to the dog's reach in front.
 

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Interesting...................I think I have seen more showlines dogs with steep croups than working line dogs but I could be wrong. The *main* thing I have heard on working line dogs is insuffiicient front angulation.
 
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