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Discussion Starter #1
Hey,


I'm planning to get a working line GSD in 2020, and I am trying to find the perfect breeder. If anyone knows of any good breeders in AZ, please let me know.


I have my eye on this breeder, and I would love to know everyone's thoughts.

I can't link it, but it is Alpine K9 Kennels in Arizona.



Thank you, Willow
 

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Do you mean this kennel?

Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9

I do not like that they sell puppies on a first come/first served basis. How do they know that that puppy would be a good fit for that specific home based purely on a deposit? They wouldn't. That sounds like a selling point for them and not them worrying about the best homes for their dogs.

Their dam, Cindy vom AlpineK9, has hips but is missing elbows. How did that happen? Those are done at the same time, so I would be worried that she failed for elbows. I would definitely triple check on that and other clearances done by them before you get a puppy. I am certainly not the best at figuring this stuff out, and I don't know bloodlines too well, but some others should come along and comment with suggestions.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!
 
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Are you planing on working in IPO wiht the puppy?

There is a well regarded breeder in AZ - but it would depend on your level of experience and goals as to whether he would have a suitable puppy for you.

Lee
 
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Oh, I see that. I will definitely do a lot more digging, I do have a while before I need to get onto a waitlist. I will also hopefully visit Alpine K9. Yes, he will be doing IPO and possibly dock diving. I didn't notice the missing elbows, but that is worrying. I want a completely transparent breeder. I may contact him about it.
Thank you all, Willow
 

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Actually, if I were you, I would be getting in touch with breeders soon. You want to have a good relationship built with your breeder, and a lot of the good breeders have really long waiting lists. I have been speaking with a breeder since August last year and might not have a puppy until next June. Most of our conversations have been about my home, what I expect from my dog, what kinds of things I like to do, how I plan on training, how she raises her puppies, etc. Those are all really good things to have discussed in detail in advance. You are more likely to get a dog from a breeder that way!

Of course, sometimes you can get lucky and get a puppy from great breeder within a month, but that is pretty uncommon. If you are looking for a sport puppy, I would be talking to breeders sooner than I would be if I was looking for "just a pet," but I would be talking with them months in advance for sure.
 

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Oh, I see that. I will definitely do a lot more digging, I do have a while before I need to get onto a waitlist. I will also hopefully visit Alpine K9. Yes, he will be doing IPO and possibly dock diving. I didn't notice the missing elbows, but that is worrying. I want a completely transparent breeder. I may contact him about it.
Thank you all, Willow
Please do some more research and be very careful of falling for the "hype" and stories that some vendors / brokers / breeders tell. If your looking for a dog for IPO then there are some excellent breeders that will provide you with a solid dog for sport or work. I'd keep looking if I were you. There are no top IPO competitors that have dogs from the breeder you mentioned. There are many reasons for that.
 
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I will be contacting any breeders I find within the next two to three months and I will ask those questions and more. Thank you. I will continue looking until I find the right breeder for me, and I unfortunately may not be able to go out of state. If I could, I would. If I can't find a good breeder in AZ, I will absolutely go out of state/
 

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You can always have a puppy shipped to you from another state if the breeder is willing. My puppy will likely be shipped to Colorado all the way from Michigan. I can't handle an 18-20 hour road trip with a puppy very easily, so shipping is the best option for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hey,


I'm planning to get a working line GSD in 2020, and I am trying to find the perfect breeder. If anyone knows of any good breeders in AZ, please let me know.


I have my eye on this breeder, and I would love to know everyone's thoughts.

I can't link it, but it is Alpine K9 Kennels in Arizona.



Thank you, Willow
Do you mean this kennel?

Czech German Shepherd Dogs from Alpine K9

I do not like that they sell puppies on a first come/first served basis. How do they know that that puppy would be a good fit for that specific home based purely on a deposit? They wouldn't. That sounds like a selling point for them and not them worrying about the best homes for their dogs.

Their dam, Cindy vom AlpineK9, has hips but is missing elbows. How did that happen? Those are done at the same time, so I would be worried that she failed for elbows. I would definitely triple check on that and other clearances done by them before you get a puppy. I am certainly not the best at figuring this stuff out, and I don't know bloodlines too well, but some others should come along and comment with suggestions.

Welcome to the forum, and good luck!
You can always have a puppy shipped to you from another state if the breeder is willing. My puppy will likely be shipped to Colorado all the way from Michigan. I can't handle an 18-20 hour road trip with a puppy very easily, so shipping is the best option for me.

Thank you for this, it has helped me decide to look out of state. I'm a mess with this forum since I can't quite figure everything out, but I am currently looking at two breeders in California. I will try to drive if possible but he may need to be shipped. :)
 

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Thank you for this, it has helped me decide to look out of state. I'm a mess with this forum since I can't quite figure everything out, but I am currently looking at two breeders in California. I will try to drive if possible but he may need to be shipped. :)
You also have a great breeder just over in Kansas.
 

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Agreed. Heck, what are some of the best breeders in the USA?

AGAIN! What are your plans, goals and experience....you may have a great litter in CO or NE to suit you...or the other breeder in AZ might be great....what is suitable for you is a 2 sided equation....!!! Someone who has been driving 2 months does not need a Ferrari and someone who has years of experience can handle more than a Ford Focus!


Lee
 

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AGAIN! What are your plans, goals and experience....you may have a great litter in CO or NE to suit you...or the other breeder in AZ might be great....what is suitable for you is a 2 sided equation....!!! Someone who has been driving 2 months does not need a Ferrari and someone who has years of experience can handle more than a Ford Focus!


Lee
This is my first GSD. I have a GSD mix and I am aware that he is, in no way, even close to the energy and drive levels that a working line GSD has. My plans are to do Schutzhund and possibly dock diving with him when he is old enough. I want a dog that is healthy and has good hips and elbows, as well as good temperament that will work well for schutzhund. His breeder and the schutzhund trainer I'll be working with will determine a pup with the best temperament for what I need.
 

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If you don't mind going out of AZ, check out Van Den Heuvel K9. They are in Washington state and Dari, the owner, is very knowledgeable and wonderful to work with. She has this unique talent of matching up a puppy with your needs but be prepared to be quite thoroughly interrogated about you experience level with WL GSD dogs and what your goals are. I got my first WL GSD from her and he has turned out to be exactly what I wanted. If a current littler is not right for you she will let you know and will try to match up a puppy more suitable to your needs and experience level.

Good luck in your search!
 

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This is my first GSD. I have a GSD mix and I am aware that he is, in no way, even close to the energy and drive levels that a working line GSD has. My plans are to do Schutzhund and possibly dock diving with him when he is old enough. I want a dog that is healthy and has good hips and elbows, as well as good temperament that will work well for schutzhund. His breeder and the schutzhund trainer I'll be working with will determine a pup with the best temperament for what I need.

OK - first off - I see breeders cited here who breed for nice looking pets who most often are not going to be able to be titled who will frustrate you if you really get the bug to train. And others who are a bit sketchy in reputation....

There are no guarantees on hips and elbows...no matter what is in the pedigree, there is always a chance to get bad hips on a percentage basis. I bred 19 litters without a failing elbow...and then got one...the sire did not have elbow certs (I was told he had) and I think there are a few that other people got with failing elbows...

de lupus alpha is a kennel in AZ who know what they are doing for working dogs....I am not on a machine I can look him up on right now...but if you are serious about doing IPO, then contact him....if you are already associated with a club and trainer, then go to him for guidance....recommendations here are often from people who have little knowledge or experience and only know they saw a nice dog somewhere....


Lee
 
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I've seen some beauties here. https://www.facebook.com/DDRGermanShepherds/timeline They are in my area but I am currently full here...Good luck.
I would go with a working line breeder that actually works and trains dogs. While a puppy is cute and dogs can be beautiful looking, the OP has stated they want a dog they can possibly do Schutzhund or IPO with. If that is the goal or even a desire, then the best bet is to look for breeders that actually do IPO with their dogs.

DDR or Czech dogs sound great from an advertising or "hype" on the internet. All that glitters is not gold and just because a dog has a few ancestors that were titled does not mean these breeders actually produce dogs that can work or are truly health dogs with excellent nerves and temperament. Again, people who are actually working dogs in IPO are not seeking these breeders out.

As mentioned previously, there is nothing wrong with wanting a certain type of dog because you like the looks of a dog. But, the OP wants to do IPO and may very well be disappointed by getting "the old school" Czech or DDR GSD that looks formidable but simply doesn't work well. I've done Schutzhund for years and actually work dogs. I have had GSD puppies that I have raised, trained and titled in IPO and other real world work venues. Puppies can be a crap shoot, I don't like to gamble so I select breeders that have proven their dogs can do the work that I want to do. I look at their results with their own dogs, not hyperbole on what the dogs "should" be able to do. Or what the dogs great grandfather did or accomplished. If a breeder only trains in their own back yard, has never titled a dog, but discusses how "real" their dogs are, those are red flags to me.

If you have an interest in doing Schutzhund or IPO then get a dog from a breeder where both parents are titled, have hips and elbows OFA'd to start. Ask the breeder if they have kept any dogs back from their breeding and actually worked and titled those dogs themselves. Ask how many dogs that they have bred have been titled in IPO? Ignore all the excuses of not being able to title a working dog, if that is what they claim they are breeding. Also, completely avoid any breeder that immediately knocks or bashes "sport" dogs. Because the next word out of their mouth will be the number of IPO titled dogs there are generations back. Then they will brag about the dog from 20-30 years ago in the pedigree that was titled in SchH or IPO.

It is very frustrating for someone to research and get a puppy with the hope of doing IPO only to invest months and maybe years to find out the dog just doesn't have the desire, ability, nerves or drive to do the work. I've seen this many times at IPO clubs. When you asked a serious, successful person doing the sport about the breeder they got the dog from, the response will be "Yea, their dogs don't work well, or you will never see any of their dogs titled."

The last 4 GSD's that I have raised from puppies have all excelled at IPO and LE work. All had good hips and elbows with strong, stable temperaments and high drive. I simply hedged my bets and went with proven breeders where both parents had been titled and high level sport dogs. I like serious, high drive male GSD's and social, high drive female GSD's. I've never had an issue finding a reputable breeder with GSD's capable of doing any type of work. With strong nerves, a good off switch and driven to work, and they have been "real" dogs as well.

Bottom line is that if you want a dog that can do IPO or anything else, go with a breeder that is successful in that venue with their own dogs. Not a breeder that imports a titled dog and then is unable to even title the dog again and just uses it for a back yard ATM machine. Avoid breeders that knock the sport that you want to do or make claims that they can do it. I would say the proof is in the pudding, simply show me that you can do it and not talk just talk about it. And I don't mean in their back yard, there are a lot of 300 point IPO dogs in breeders back yards that would fall apart on a real trial field. Which is why they never leave their back yard.
 

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I've seen some beauties here. https://www.facebook.com/DDRGermanShepherds/timeline They are in my area but I am currently full here...Good luck.


What is the criteria you use to recommend this breeder for a potential IPO dog? Have you a dog you are training from them? Do you have dogs in your IPO club from this kennel? Do you see these breeders training and trialing dogs from their 2nd - 5th or 6th generations?

People come here with specific needs and questions.....there are lots of gorgeous websites with pretty puppies....I don't even need to look at the link to know this is not going to be a breeder that is breeding for solid IPO titlable puppies.......

I don't have a problem with DDR lines, given you use them appropriately, wisely and have experience with them.....but when recommending a breeder - look at the criteria the poster has cited.


Lee
 
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