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I don't know what gag-reflect you're talking about. All I see is chocking out a dog until it releases.

From the video's author, in the comments: "your chock will establish you as the alpha leader and he will not turn to you afterwards." Tells me all I need to know about this genius.
 

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Looks to me like a good way to get bit in the thigh or the knee---it would be pretty easy for the dog to release the arm and torque itself to nail your leg. Anyone who thinks they can hold the collar tightly enough to prevent that doesn't realize the force and speed a dog engaged in a fight has.

Every person I know who's been bitten breaking up a fight tried to grab the collar -- every.single.one.
 

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I do believe the intention of the video was how to get a trained attack dog to release.

Most dogs naturally bite and release.
 

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I was a on a 1 mile jog yesterday morning with Bella. Where I live there are two dog parks. It was 8am, me and Bella where on the path. We stopped to take a break. We're across the street from the dog park. At first it was a husky by himself. Then a lady with a pitbull mix and a fat lab mix approached the park.

The lab was off leash and I notice that so I started walking away a little. So the lady walked in where the husky and the owner were. All three dogs body postures were straight up it was like who's going to give in and then the lab and pitbull instantly attacked the husky. The husky stood his ground. The owners were two women who were beyond scared to break it up. I almost went over there but then I realize I would be putting Bella at risk so I just stood there. The lady grabbed the pit by by the collar and the fat lab backed off himself and the other husky stopped and his owner grabbed him but he kept barking afterwards.
 

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I don't know what gag-reflect you're talking about. All I see is chocking out a dog until it releases.

From the video's author, in the comments: "your chock will establish you as the alpha leader and he will not turn to you afterwards." Tells me all I need to know about this genius.
Towards the end he touches part of the neck that seems to make the dog do a bit of a gag.
But...yea, he's pretty much just suggesting that you choke the dog until it releases, either by collar or a belt. Then says try touching the throat if it continues to hold the bite. Errrr, if you're mostly relying on a choke....I'd stick with the choke. This video seems to be more intended for strange/untrained dogs that are attacking...so sticking your hand by its mouth....hmmm. Yea, not the best idea. It just may end up releasing the person it is biting--and begin biting your arm instead! Yay, let's have two people being treated for possible rabies now!

And yes...wtf @ that alpha crap?! Yea, go stand over a stray, human aggressive dog and choke it. It totally isn't going to try ripping your face off when you release it. Challenging body language and P***ING it off while it's already highly revved up. Brilliant.



I don't know how truly useful that gag reflex thing is, Stone. You have to get it at the right spot. The dog is going to be thrashing about. We worry about bites from big, strong dogs. Not little yorkies. So it is thrashing about and the recommendation is to try touching a spot on the throat, as you are now trying to restrain it with one hand. If you can't choke it out with both hands to begin with...I wouldn't suggest holding it with one. Again...dog is thrashing. Even if you touch it...you'll be touching it for half a second. Then it's back to attacking. Maybe not the original victim, but now attacking you.


I just wouldn't touch this methodology at all, unless it were a last ditch effort to save an infant (better you bitten up than an infant dying)...but I don't see an infant staying alive very long when dealing with a viscious dog...dead before you have a chance to do anything...
 

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I've only stopped one really nasty nasty bloody fight in my life. It started with 4 GSDs (3 males and 1 bitch) ... I quickly got it down to 3 getting one of the boys into the dog pen. I tried everything I could think of water .. sticks, etc ... nothing stopped them Finally I took off my jacket, wrapped it around Slider's head "blindfolding" him. While I held onto the jacket I punched the other two in the head/face until they backed off. I walked the blindfolded dog to the pen and took off the jacket around his head.

I was livid at all 4 of them. I washed off the blood to make sure no one was going to bleed to death and went into the house to calm down.

The fight's "trigger" was over a toy so I banned all toys from the house since they had run of the house, and only allowed them to play with their toys when they were separated ... Slider and Bruiser in the dog pen and Mac and Faith in the big yard.

This worked until the three boys passed away ... Faith is still alive and I have two new males ... Ledgie and little Scooby.
 

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I do believe the intention of the video was how to get a trained attack dog to release.
He mentioned attacking a child, along with dogs without a collar.

By no means do I claim to have any experience with trained attack dogs working, but...wouldn't a trained attack dog be collared while working? I don't think a trained one is to be randomly attacking a child when 'off duty' or not under command to be doing so.
Plus, trained...I would imagine a couple off commands would be sufficient to get the release. I know they take their job very seriously when attacking, but I can't think of a trained one needing to be choked until it is off.
 

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I do believe the intention of the video was how to get a trained attack dog to release.

Most dogs naturally bite and release.
I agree. I have used the lift technique to get Kavai to release a bite sleeve once released by the agitator. I would not recommend this as something you might want to try unless this was your dog. Maybe better wording could have been used in the production of this.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I tried everything I could think of water .. sticks, etc ... nothing stopped them Finally I took off my jacket, wrapped it around Slider's head "blindfolding" him. I walked the blindfolded dog to the pen and took off the jacket around his head.
This is the thing I'm working on, wetsuit fabric shaped in a "muzzle/eye cover with velcro to quickly attach. That- with the throat push to invoke the gag reflex......
 

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Towards the end he touches part of the neck that seems to make the dog do a bit of a gag.
But...yea, he's pretty much just suggesting that you choke the dog until it releases, either by collar or a belt. Then says try touching the throat if it continues to hold the bite. Errrr, if you're mostly relying on a choke....I'd stick with the choke. This video seems to be more intended for strange/untrained dogs that are attacking...so sticking your hand by its mouth....hmmm. Yea, not the best idea. It just may end up releasing the person it is biting--and begin biting your arm instead! Yay, let's have two people being treated for possible rabies now!

And yes...wtf @ that alpha crap?! Yea, go stand over a stray, human aggressive dog and choke it. It totally isn't going to try ripping your face off when you release it. Challenging body language and P***ING it off while it's already highly revved up. Brilliant.



I don't know how truly useful that gag reflex thing is, Stone. You have to get it at the right spot. The dog is going to be thrashing about. We worry about bites from big, strong dogs. Not little yorkies. So it is thrashing about and the recommendation is to try touching a spot on the throat, as you are now trying to restrain it with one hand. If you can't choke it out with both hands to begin with...I wouldn't suggest holding it with one. Again...dog is thrashing. Even if you touch it...you'll be touching it for half a second. Then it's back to attacking. Maybe not the original victim, but now attacking you.


I just wouldn't touch this methodology at all, unless it were a last ditch effort to save an infant (better you bitten up than an infant dying)...but I don't see an infant staying alive very long when dealing with a viscious dog...dead before you have a chance to do anything...
This reminded me of an incident a number of years ago, when I was working a an RN on pediatrics in NY state. We had a little boy , about 6 years old, admitted to our unit with severe dogbites- one of which came within a micron of tearing through his larynx. This little boy and two other kids were playing on the porch, where the family's newly acquired Rottie was chained. He was accustomed to the kids running up and down the porch stairs since he had joined the family. For some reason, he grabbed that little boy and nearly killed him. His 12 year old sister screamed and tried to get her brother free by pulling on his legs. But this made the dog grab even harder on the boy's head and pull back. The mother ran out, pulled the boy loose, then choked the huge Rottie to death with her bare hands. Have you ever seen the size of a Rottie's neck circumference?! Talk about adrenalin and a mother's protective instinct! Even the local police were marvelling at that. Luckily, the boy survived, but he was quite torn up. I will never forget that.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Seriously you guys.... I'm in the R & D design for this thing.... and there is another component to it which I cannot disclose - but just this component...

It was explained to me here that a dog really can't do two things at one time... that said - if someone could safely get to the gag reflex area - with a blinding wrap in place - could that work? The video at 1 minute 20 shows an immediate reaction. I think if this area could be accessed without threat of a bite - this might be effective. What do you think?
 

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He mentioned attacking a child, along with dogs without a collar.

By no means do I claim to have any experience with trained attack dogs working, but...wouldn't a trained attack dog be collared while working? I don't think a trained one is to be randomly attacking a child when 'off duty' or not under command to be doing so.
Plus, trained...I would imagine a couple off commands would be sufficient to get the release. I know they take their job very seriously when attacking, but I can't think of a trained one needing to be choked until it is off.
At 1:16, "he says that if the attack dog does not open...", is that because english is not the first language? I don't know.

There have been numerous cases of off duty police K9s attacking children in the news lately.

Logansport Police K9 bites teen girl | CBS 4 - Indianapolis News, Weather, Traffic and Sports | WTTV

4-year-old attacked by dad's police dog in Hesperia | abc7.com

Police K-9 bites, injures 7-year-old girl in Lake County, officials say | Local News - WESH Home

If the handler is not there to off the dog, that could be a problem.

Regarding dog fights NOT between pack members and on neutral ground, I have yet to see any dog that is not a fighting breed, or a mix of one, that holds and grips and needs heroic efforts to remove it from its victim. I am sure it happens, but it is not the norm.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Seriously you guys.... I'm in the R & D design for this thing.... and there is another component to it which I cannot disclose - but just this component...

It was explained to me here that a dog really can't do two things at one time... that said - if someone could safely get to the gag reflex area - with a blinding wrap in place - could that work? The video at 1 minute 20 shows an immediate reaction. I think if this area could be accessed without threat of a bite - this might be effective. What do you think?
I'm going to go ahead and experiment with the blinding wrap just to see what behavior that will bring and how many seconds it will buy. I have an extremely dog aggressive dog and I am looking for something I can pull out that will only take about 2-3 seconds to attach. IMO, at this point in time - I can see a use for this as an effective "shut down" as opposed to a muzzle where the visual stimulation is still there. I can see no reason where blocking one of the most important sensory triggers(visual) would not stop the behavior. Muzzles are only to block the bite. Visual sensory block would stop the building trigger....:)

LOL - I can see a stepford neighborhood with dogs walking and then there is an out of control - aggressive dog - and the fellow dog walkers would say "wrap your dog please"....until the encounter has passed.:eek:
 

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If you are talking about something that you can use on your dog to keep her from acting aggressively by essentially covering her eyes, there are already such coverings on the market. I have seen them for sell.

But seriously, if you do so, you just might ramp her up.
 

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SV, Saito was talking about police dogs attacking children. Perhaps you should target the correct person, but I have strong doubts that you will.

Off topic
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What happened to your marine air horn solution?
I got it viking! We go on daylight savings time this Sunday and that's when things will liven up around here and I can start testing. My post is "beyond that" primarily when a dog has "locked on" and how to best remove without harming either dog further or if the air horn incites rather than distracts.

I know that where there's a will, there's a way. Most of my life - I've made "ways" that work but aren't the norm.:)
 
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