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Discussion Starter #1
I was always wondering ...

Unless you are K9 police officer or possibly press, you are not allowed to observe a police dog training sessions. I already tried. At least that's how it is here in the state of NY. Why is this? Are the cops scared that criminals are going to pick up on their "secret" training strategies or random john doe's are going to produce cop dogs which go out and bite the public. Does police dog training really have to be kept a secret? How come retired K9 cops are allowed to pursue a career in dog training and share their "secrets" with the public.

What am I overlooking here. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 

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The criminals will find out about the favored rewards and then carry them...tugs, balls, treats.

JK:)

I would have loved to be a K9 LEO handler, wish I wasn't so old now.
 

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I don't know,

Maybe liability

Maybe they do not want just anyone to know the strengths and weaknesses of individual dogs

Maybe they do not want people to see how dogs are trained to track or trail so that people could work on ways to avoid being tracked.

Maybe the individuals have enough to be thinking about and doing that they do not want to be critiqued by the public while doing it.

maybe after training with weed, they all get together at the end of class and have a little party???
 

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I know how they train K9's and it's not pretty. It's why the dogs are wired and hyper, and they don't live very long.
 

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Hang on, there are as many ways to train police dogs as there are police departments. Many, many departments train their own dogs. I think they, for the most part, choose dogs that are high energy and high drive.

Some of them are probably terribly hard on the dogs, to the point of being abusive.

I think that the rest are basically trying to prove those dogs inside and out. It is imperitive that police dogs are under control and perform on command and at the same time stay alert and protect. The rest of us can get away with a 78 or 95% performance. Police dogs have to be on the top of their game all the time.

I would expect that would mean rigorous training, with very little room to move either way.

The dog that came to our class for a demo was nine years and still active. I think that ensuring that those dogs are 100% all the time, might make them live longer than they might otherwise.
 

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I'm sure there are many ways, but I know for a fact that the big departments around here use the same methods, and it is very harsh. I come from a law enforcement family and know several K9 officers.
 

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The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (our federal police service) has there training facility about 40 minutes from where I love and they do training and skills demonstrations every week during the summer. You can see their training grounds from the highway, so I don't think they're super secretive about their training. From what I have heard (my breeder knows many of the trainers there) they run a good program and turn out really good police dogs. From what I understand, their dogs are the first response SAR dogs for the entire country, others get a call if needed. My brothers, however, are with our local police dept and their dogs are not only terrible at actual police work - they sound insane. It sounds like the dogs are just as likely to bite their handlers as a suspect (and then only if they can see the suspect because they can't track! They sound exactly like the dogs wolfiesmom is describing, and these are not dogs I would ever want to encounter.
 

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I know how they train K9's and it's not pretty. It's why the dogs are wired and hyper, and they don't live very long.
Agree with Selzer, you can't make a blanket statement like this and categorize trainers and dogs as all the same.

I watch RCMP dog handlers work their dogs on a weekly basis - some have joined our Schutzhund club and work with our main helper in maintaining and improving the patrol dogs' tracking and fight skills.

They focus on developing a strong relationship with their dogs as their life depends on it. One member brings his young son with him, and we all stand around and watch and cheer on the dog when he brings down the bad guy in training.

As to your question about why? I don't know about the police in your area and their reasoning - I doubt that there is some deep nasty, unspeakable secret going on behind closed doors though - unless one is looking for yet another conspiracy theory. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I know how they train K9's and it's not pretty. It's why the dogs are wired and hyper, and they don't live very long.
I see what you are saying. Good point actually. I haven't thought of it like that. I think somewhere along the lines you are saying that some pro animal activists would have some serious problems with the training practices.
 

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I work in LE and I will tell you that some of the training is not conventional is still the old way of choking out your dog for disipline issues. Honestly if departments are still using this tactic for training which most are, would you want the public seeing you choke out5 your dog. NO. I remember a instence when a k9 dog bite the handler at a demonstration and they handler couldnt do anything because the public was there. I dont thinks its keeping secrets on training techniques as much as how harsh it can be.
 

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I like my weed theory better.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
When I dug up a local K9 officer on Facebook and asked him about the training, public observation blabla, he responded that the public is not allowed for "OBVIOUS REASONS"
I wonder what he meant with "obvious reasons", silly me, I should have asked.
 

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Agree with Selzer, you can't make a blanket statement like this and categorize trainers and dogs as all the same.

I watch RCMP dog handlers work their dogs on a weekly basis - some have joined our Schutzhund club and work with our main helper in maintaining and improving the patrol dogs' tracking and fight skills.

They focus on developing a strong relationship with their dogs as their life depends on it. One member brings his young son with him, and we all stand around and watch and cheer on the dog when he brings down the bad guy in training.

As to your question about why? I don't know about the police in your area and their reasoning - I doubt that there is some deep nasty, unspeakable secret going on behind closed doors though - unless one is looking for yet another conspiracy theory. :)
Did you ever think they do this for show? It's called public relations.Anyhow, I am just speaking of the initial training that they do. Once the dog is trained they do the normal practice that everyone else does. There is no need for any more of the type of correction that is used in the initial training because the dogs get the picture very quickly.

I knew a guy that used to give his police dog, let's just say a certain pleasure as a reward for catching a criminal. He was the best dog in the area.
 

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I work in LE and I will tell you that some of the training is not conventional is still the old way of choking out your dog for disipline issues. Honestly if departments are still using this tactic for training which most are, would you want the public seeing you choke out5 your dog. NO. I remember a instence when a k9 dog bite the handler at a demonstration and they handler couldnt do anything because the public was there. I dont thinks its keeping secrets on training techniques as much as how harsh it can be.
This is what I am talking about. They pick the dog up by it's throat and choke it to the point of it almost losing consciousness when it needs a correction. Yes, they still do it.
 

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From what I have heard and seen the training of these dogs can be quite brutal. I know a guy at the dog park that ended up with a k9 the didn't make it through training. He said when he got the dog it had no fur on its neck where it had been choked repeatedly with a choke chain.

I also saw how the military handlers treat the dogs. In fact the handler I was working with went so far as to choke the #%$& out of my dog with a choke collar he fashioned from her leash. His reasoning for doing it- it was to make her submit and be obedient.
 

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Did you ever think they do this for show? It's called public relations.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Oh Wolfiesmom, THANK YOU For the laugh!!!

That would be like saying that I train with treats and balls for show, because it is well known that Schutzhund people are brutal to their dogs.

Anyways, the RCMP have some of the best-trained police dogs in the world, but I'm sure it might just be one or two dog that they bring out for the public, and keep the rest hidden, LOL!

I have no doubt that there are some LA people out there who are idiots and don't know the first thing about dogs and resort to what others here are talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I also saw how the military handlers treat the dogs. In fact the handler I was working with went so far as to choke the #%$& out of my dog with a choke collar he fashioned from her leash. His reasoning for doing it- it was to make her submit and be obedient.

sad ...that is soo 60's, Koehler method type training ... Are these methods really still necessary to train a good police or military dog?
 

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I think that it is nice to think about police dogs, especially GSDs, the way we think about our pets. But their handlers have to have a special sort of mindset. They HAVE to be able to put that dog in danger -- front of the line type thing in situations, and KNOW that even with bullets flying and whatever chaos that dog will do what he is trained to do.

They have to be aware that the idiots out there might try to sabotage or kill their dog, and be ready to flush the dog if they do. but they also have to go into this whole thing knowing the dog can drop out or be killed at any time.

I think that might make you a little more callous about the whole thing.

And also, lots of cops are x-military. Military wants to get you home alive, not worried so much about how bad you feel in training, they want you to know how to do your job when the shtuff is hitting the fan. And I can see them treating dogs with a similar mentality.

But I would not suggest that all of them are the same.

One fellow was telling me that the dog is not allowed any toys. He has one toy, and that toy he can play with ONLY when he does something really good. They do this starting from a puppy. Another told me her son was training a police dog, and the dog was chewing holes in the walls and they cannot correct it for this, because they might need for the dog to do just that down the line. And another guy told my dad that they switch handlers when they are training police dogs every month or so, so the dog does not get so attached to just one handler.

I think that there are different methods, and different levels of bonding with specific officers, depending on what the dogs are used for and how they are trained and how they are kept.
 
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