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Elk Von Daechsel came from who? Anyone know anything about that line? Good or bad? Thanks in advance
 

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The dog has a CKC registration number, so I'd assume the breeder is in Canada.

Looks like a sport pedigree to my layman's eyes ... a whole lot of Troll/Fero, among a number of other very well known dogs ... Tom, Mink, etc.

I'll let other, more knowledgeable folks fill in more info ... kind of interested in what others have to say about this one, actually.
 

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Aggression on top of aggression and more on top of that.....

Lee
 

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What exactly is it you are looking for? You keep asking about different dogs. are you in a club? Are you active in IPO? If so, why aren't you looking at the dogs around you?
 

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Ralph is very willing to talk dog. If your interested, I would contact him. You can easily find him on FB or through Redline K9.
 

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I have seen this dog trial. Powerful dog who exhibits excellent control.
Mr. Gilby is a very experienced trainer who has competed at high levels - I would expect that he would do very very well with this dog.


Lee
 

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The breeder is Dan Waters from Red Deer, Alberta, Canada. If you google him he's pretty easy to find.
The littermate to Elk, Ellis Von Daechsel, is owned by Cassandra from
hollenhund shepherds if you wanted to find out more about the lines, and i'm sure she could put you in touch with Dan.
 

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Aggression on top of aggression and more on top of that.....

Lee
I agree with you Lee...big time aggression in the lines. Definitely wouldn’t consider this dog genetically as sport breeding but moreso LE breeding. That doesn’t mean the dog can’t do well in sport, but definitely some strong dogs in this pedigree.
With excellent handler/trainer as it is reputed Mr Gilby is, probably a good dog in sport. But for novice owner, this is lot of dog genetically.
 

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Lee, just curious but can you expand on this if you have time. For some of us who are learning, or looking for stable family pets, it may give aid with what to steer clear of.
This thread is a classic example of why recommendations should be taken with a large grain - no a salt shaker full of chunky sea - salt!!!

Several of us who are experienced in breeding and have a more than average depth of knowledge see this pedigree for what it is....while a sport person is seeing a very very well trained competition dog - the finished product so to speak! When that is pointed out, it appears that it is considered validation of approval of the dog for a potential buyer (of a puppy by him is my assumption) while it is NOT a validation at all!

The minute a name is mentioned that is in the pedigree - the members with that dog in a pedigree will all jump on the band wagon and shrill - "My dog with XXX is a wonderful happy loving etc etc dog"......which may well be true! There is a spread of qualities and characteristics in every litter.....Personally, what I see as the negatives in this litter (3 specific dogs) would make me run the other way for breeding....what do I do with the 2 or 3 pups in the litter who are going to be little demonspawns (not used affectionately here at all). It is a percentage thing - but I don't want to have a puppy on my hands that I cannot place with a good conscience! I see too many nervy, inappropriately aggressive dogs who come out of a litter with pedigrees I feel the same way about.


Lee
 

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This thread is a classic example of why recommendations should be taken with a large grain - no a salt shaker full of chunky sea - salt!!!

Several of us who are experienced in breeding and have a more than average depth of knowledge see this pedigree for what it is....while a sport person is seeing a very very well trained competition dog - the finished product so to speak! When that is pointed out, it appears that it is considered validation of approval of the dog for a potential buyer (of a puppy by him is my assumption) while it is NOT a validation at all!

The minute a name is mentioned that is in the pedigree - the members with that dog in a pedigree will all jump on the band wagon and shrill - "My dog with XXX is a wonderful happy loving etc etc dog"......which may well be true! There is a spread of qualities and characteristics in every litter.....Personally, what I see as the negatives in this litter (3 specific dogs) would make me run the other way for breeding....what do I do with the 2 or 3 pups in the litter who are going to be little demonspawns (not used affectionately here at all). It is a percentage thing - but I don't want to have a puppy on my hands that I cannot place with a good conscience! I see too many nervy, inappropriately aggressive dogs who come out of a litter with pedigrees I feel the same way about.


Lee
So could it also be said that the pet owners who have dogs with XXX in their pedigree don't see the negatives (yet) because they never challenge the dogs? Could it be true that the average spoiled pet seldom reverts to demon spawn because no one questions it's right to be a jackass? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just trying to learn. I know I handled horses that showed like a dream and were nightmares to handle. Under an experienced rider they looked fabulous, with a newbie up they looked like the mounts of the four horsemen. Same idea?
 

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Ajay Singh, vom Patiala, bred to Elk twice with two different females (mother and daughter). He would be a good person to contact for information on the dog and how he produces. Ajay is on FB.
 

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Lee, just curious but can you expand on this if you have time. For some of us who are learning, or looking for stable family pets, it may give aid with what to steer clear of.
This thread is a classic example of why recommendations should be taken with a large grain - no a salt shaker full of chunky sea - salt!!!

Several of us who are experienced in breeding and have a more than average depth of knowledge see this pedigree for what it is....while a sport person is seeing a very very well trained competition dog - the finished product so to speak! When that is pointed out, it appears that it is considered validation of approval of the dog for a potential buyer (of a puppy by him is my assumption) while it is NOT a validation at all!

The minute a name is mentioned that is in the pedigree - the members with that dog in a pedigree will all jump on the band wagon and shrill - "My dog with XXX is a wonderful happy loving etc etc dog"......which may well be true! There is a spread of qualities and characteristics in every litter.....Personally, what I see as the negatives in this litter (3 specific dogs) would make me run the other way for breeding....what do I do with the 2 or 3 pups in the litter who are going to be little demonspawns (not used affectionately here at all). It is a percentage thing - but I don't want to have a puppy on my hands that I cannot place with a good conscience! I see too many nervy, inappropriately aggressive dogs who come out of a litter with pedigrees I feel the same way about.


Lee
I see this a lot through both avenues I am involved in.

The new to sport/dog people see big names being thrown around, purchase a puppy and in months are over their head. Same with the breed club... Buy the popular stud puppy or the puppy recommended by someone competing in the sport to a newbie and again, pet dog with stronger character than they even have a clue to deal with.
 

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This thread is a classic example of why recommendations should be taken with a large grain - no a salt shaker full of chunky sea - salt!!!

Several of us who are experienced in breeding and have a more than average depth of knowledge see this pedigree for what it is....while a sport person is seeing a very very well trained competition dog - the finished product so to speak! When that is pointed out, it appears that it is considered validation of approval of the dog for a potential buyer (of a puppy by him is my assumption) while it is NOT a validation at all!

The minute a name is mentioned that is in the pedigree - the members with that dog in a pedigree will all jump on the band wagon and shrill - "My dog with XXX is a wonderful happy loving etc etc dog"......which may well be true! There is a spread of qualities and characteristics in every litter.....Personally, what I see as the negatives in this litter (3 specific dogs) would make me run the other way for breeding....what do I do with the 2 or 3 pups in the litter who are going to be little demonspawns (not used affectionately here at all). It is a percentage thing - but I don't want to have a puppy on my hands that I cannot place with a good conscience! I see too many nervy, inappropriately aggressive dogs who come out of a litter with pedigrees I feel the same way about.


Lee
I tend to agree with Lee on the evaluation of this pedigree. That is not to say this is not a good breeding for some purposes....but for general breeder selling their pups to mostly pet people, I agree with Lee. I could see one, two ,or maybe three pups out of eight that would be very difficult for average family. Now if you are a breeder that has waiting list or clientele that are in sport/work or a club....then these same pups may work out fine. For sure there will be some less active pups that will fit in good with family and the waiting list breeder can make sure they are appropriately matched. But those 2/3 demonspans as Lee mentions....they better go to right hands.
 
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