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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I posted here that I was a GSD snob and had adopted a Aussie X who acted crazy. A few of you told me that perhaps he was not working as he should, and that maybe he would not appear retarded if I got him into herding. Well, this is what I have to say about that (I'm laughing here):



Hmmm..Who was herding whom?



He was most interested in the goat's WATER in their pen -- He LOVED the huge "water dish."


This is just prior to the goat ramming him, which was followed by a goat-dog fight.

Kasey was very tired that evening. It was an exciting and eye-opening experience. I think Kasey will stick to herding lizards!
 

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that is toooo funny! guess he wasn't cut out for herding:)

Love the water one, and the pig checking him out thru the fence LOL..

Maybe flyball? LOL
 

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Goat dog fight haha. Priceless!

At least his nerve is good. Most dogs would not get close enough to a moo cow to let her head butt them.
 

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I like the way those goat are all looking at him and discussing what to do next.

Definitely, try an actual herding lesson or clinic.
 

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"Herding" doesn't mean you take your dog to a farm and put him into a pen with the livestock. It means going to a herding trainer and having your dog evaluated for the sport. A real evaluation is not done in a goat pen with food and water - it's usually done in a round pen to see how much interest the dog has in herding and how easily he can be taught to be directed to move the animals around.
 

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I have no idea the circumstances of the head rub from the cow, but from the photo only, at that point I know a few of my dogs (if they had even gotten close to the cow) would have shut down and quit. Which I think may have been part of the water drinking. Dogs, like people (oooh, I said it! I said it!) need to be built up to be competent and confident in any new undertaking. If they are starting from a point of good confidence already, it's easier. If they are starting lower, it's more difficult. A herding trainer that's good identifies where the dog is at and works to build.

My ShepHERD hated herding. My Chow-Shep and BC-Chow mixes loved it. The latter two started as more confident dogs who were more secure in new situations and that helped.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I took him to a woman who does training and has herding dogs. Kasey had no interest whatsoever. It wouldn't take a trained person to see that. I've had dogs with incredible herding interest before...It's recognizable.
That's fine - It was a fun experience. And I got some good pictures.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I have no idea the circumstances of the head rub from the cow, but from the photo only, at that point I know a few of my dogs (if they had even gotten close to the cow) would have shut down and quit.
His nonchalant attitude fascinated me. Any of my other dogs I've EVER had would have either acted aggressively, openly frightened/scared, or actually gotten into herding. That cow did that to him a number of times. What did Kasey do? He lied down to take a rest in front of the animal. It wasn't a shutting down thing -- It was...hmmm..what's here? Goat poop? mmmm! and bopping around.
 

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His nonchalant attitude fascinated me. Any of my other dogs I've EVER had would have either acted aggressively, openly frightened/scared, or actually gotten into herding. That cow did that to him a number of times. What did Kasey do? He lied down to take a rest in front of the animal. It wasn't a shutting down thing -- It was...hmmm..what's here? Goat poop? mmmm! and bopping around.
The woman may have herding dogs but putting an inexperienced dog in with a cow that repeatedly rams him is not an appropriate test of instinct or first lesson. Everything you mention are signs of stress (laying down, seeming disinterested, eating poop, sniffing, etc) and I'd say it would be pretty normal for any dog to be turned off if that is their first experience with stock. Experienced, knowledgeable herding instructors/testers put inexperienced dogs on extremely dog broke stock which isn't likely to try to put up much resistance. Testing herding instinct and training herding dogs is more than just throwing a dog in with random stock and seeing what happens.

And with adults dogs it CAN take repeated exposure to stock before their instinct "kicks in". I have known adult dogs who showed no interest on their first few exposures to sheep but turned out to be nice workers once they realized what they were supposed to (and allowed to) do.
 

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I am most impressed with the dog. With most Aussies I've seen you would have had more problems calling them off the livestock. Especially for the first encounter. I've had Aussies for many years. The recall off of livestock was one of the hardest commands to teach when they have free run in a pen.

I would be a little concerned with all of the white on the head. That could be an indication that your pup may have some sight or hearing loss due to the double merle gene. I don't know if you've had that tested or not.

I really wouldn't give up on the herding, if that is something that interested you.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
I trust her the woman I took him to, she has a long history, and we did this for fun. Maybe I haven't explained myself: It's really not me that was into my dog herding -- I wanted to see if my dog was somehow missing out on something in life. I see he prefers lizards. Which relieves me in a way ;) The woman's husband offered to have Kasey back to work with some of their dogs to see if he would catch on having experienced herding dogs around him, but I'm not going to do that.
The woman may have herding dogs but putting an inexperienced dog in with a cow that repeatedly rams him is not an appropriate test of instinct or first lesson. Everything you mention are signs of stress (laying down, seeming disinterested, eating poop, sniffing, etc) and I'd say it would be pretty normal for any dog to be turned off if that is their first experience with stock. Experienced, knowledgeable herding instructors/testers put inexperienced dogs on extremely dog broke stock which isn't likely to try to put up much resistance. Testing herding instinct and training herding dogs is more than just throwing a dog in with random stock and seeing what happens.

And with adults dogs it CAN take repeated exposure to stock before their instinct "kicks in". I have known adult dogs who showed no interest on their first few exposures to sheep but turned out to be nice workers once they realized what they were supposed to (and allowed to) do.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I am most impressed with the dog. With most Aussies I've seen you would have had more problems calling them off the livestock. Especially for the first encounter. I've had Aussies for many years. The recall off of livestock was one of the hardest commands to teach when they have free run in a pen.

I would be a little concerned with all of the white on the head. That could be an indication that your pup may have some sight or hearing loss due to the double merle gene. I don't know if you've had that tested or not.

I really wouldn't give up on the herding, if that is something that interested you.
Thanks. That's interesting. We think he has Borzoi in him as well. I'm not interested in herding, but I was fearing that HE might be and that I was keeping him as a house dog and depriving him. I'm actually relieved a bit. I was impressed with his calm during all of this. He has a great attitude about life in general. My vet has stated that he has some congenital issues. He is missing most of his tongue due, apparently, to an infection as a puppy (we adopted him 8 months ago). He seems to have some malformation in his mouth as well as his head. And his feet are turned outward. A neighbor/friend wondered if he's a product of a puppy mill.
Doesn't matter. I love him. :hug:
 

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Thanks. That's interesting. We think he has Borzoi in him as well. I'm not interested in herding, but I was fearing that HE might be and that I was keeping him as a house dog and depriving him. I'm actually relieved a bit. I was impressed with his calm during all of this. He has a great attitude about life in general. My vet has stated that he has some congenital issues. He is missing most of his tongue due, apparently, to an infection as a puppy (we adopted him 8 months ago). He seems to have some malformation in his mouth as well as his head. And his feet are turned outward. A neighbor/friend wondered if he's a product of a puppy mill.
Doesn't matter. I love him. :hug:
Hondo is missing toes on his rear leg due to a whelping mishap. Due to this he walks all goofy in his rear end. I understand what you are saying - we'll never win dog of the year, but he is well on his way to becoming one of the best dogs of my life time.
 

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The woman may have herding dogs but putting an inexperienced dog in with a cow that repeatedly rams him is not an appropriate test of instinct or first lesson. Everything you mention are signs of stress (laying down, seeming disinterested, eating poop, sniffing, etc) and I'd say it would be pretty normal for any dog to be turned off if that is their first experience with stock. Experienced, knowledgeable herding instructors/testers put inexperienced dogs on extremely dog broke stock which isn't likely to try to put up much resistance. Testing herding instinct and training herding dogs is more than just throwing a dog in with random stock and seeing what happens.

And with adults dogs it CAN take repeated exposure to stock before their instinct "kicks in". I have known adult dogs who showed no interest on their first few exposures to sheep but turned out to be nice workers once they realized what they were supposed to (and allowed to) do.
:thumbup: x 2
(that post should be repeated!)

I realize that you have no interest in herding (which is obviously fine, although I personally love it), but people may end up reading this thread, who are interested in herding, and should realize that this was not a normal herding instict test (and I have seen a ton of them). I have never seen livestock challenge a dog during an instinct test.
 

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I think my favorite picture is the one of him drinking out of the goats water...
 

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Thanks. That's interesting. We think he has Borzoi in him as well. I'm not interested in herding, but I was fearing that HE might be and that I was keeping him as a house dog and depriving him. I'm actually relieved a bit. I was impressed with his calm during all of this. He has a great attitude about life in general. My vet has stated that he has some congenital issues. He is missing most of his tongue due, apparently, to an infection as a puppy (we adopted him 8 months ago). He seems to have some malformation in his mouth as well as his head. And his feet are turned outward. A neighbor/friend wondered if he's a product of a puppy mill.
Doesn't matter. I love him. :hug:
Why would you think he'd part Borzoi? :confused:

Jaw, head and limb deformities as well as the lack of pigmentation are associated with "neural crest abnormalities" in animals and humans. It would be worth researching the subject a bit as there are many issues associated with such abnormalities that you may want to be aware of. I would suspect the missing tongue and malformed head are more birth defects associated with something like neural crest abnormalities than due to an infection. Just because he has congential issues doesn't mean he is from a "puppy mill" or even that he was purposely bred.

What about trying trick training with clicker/shaping/all motivational methods for him as a "job". It will give him an outlet for his energy and offer mental stimulation (without having to deal with livestock ;)). Plus it's fun :D.
 

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Why would you think he'd part Borzoi? :confused:

Jaw, head and limb deformities as well as the lack of pigmentation are associated with "neural crest abnormalities" in animals and humans. It would be worth researching the subject a bit as there are many issues associated with such abnormalities that you may want to be aware of. I would suspect the missing tongue and malformed head are more birth defects associated with something like neural crest abnormalities than due to an infection. Just because he has congential issues doesn't mean he is from a "puppy mill" or even that he was purposely bred.

What about trying trick training with clicker/shaping/all motivational methods for him as a "job". It will give him an outlet for his energy and offer mental stimulation (without having to deal with livestock ;)). Plus it's fun :D.
A Borzoi looks like a Greyhound with really long hair, the OP's dog does not look like it has any Borzoi in it.
 
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