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Discussion Starter #1
My GSD is 10 months old. And the trainer said, she don't want to bite (in her biting protection training). Is it because she still a puppy? or her personality?

I'm worry that she will never be a protective dog.

What I know about her:

*Super submissive!
*Fear aggression.
*Barking a lot at strangers.

She likes to be (or pretend) to be aggressive at strangers, by barking strongly non-stop, or heading to them like she wanna attack them. But when the person didn't care and keep heading to her, she get scare and go back "retreating".
 

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Do you really think it's a good idea to attempt to bite train a dog with all those issues?

You really should just be working on her confidence instead of trying to make her more aggressive or a possible weapon.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That what was the trainer doing, trying to give her the confidence by barking at an intruder, and then the intruder will run away (because she was barking) and petting her.
So, in barking she is good, but in biting no.
 

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If I were to train a dog to bite or in protection, I'd want the dog to have the right stuff upstairs. Strong nerves, high thresholds, confidence, a clear mind.

Any dog with poor nerves can bark. It's the ones that can think before reacting that are the ones that are right for real protection training IMO.

Training a dog that is already fearful of people and with a not so great nerve base is just asking for trouble and a possible lawsuit. You're reinforcing her fear. She barks and you're telling her good girl. Do you really think she's going to be able to tell if the person she's barking at means harm to you? If this were my dog, I'd ditch the protection training all together.

Who is this trainer and what credentials does he have in this kind of training?

At this point, she's still young and probably can be worked with. You want to teach her that people are good. You should want her to ignore and not react to everyone and everything. Build a bond with your dog. Let her feel like you're the one doing the protecting... not the other way around. Do you really want a dog who thinks it's actually a good thing to bark at every single person and strange thing she sees out in public? This is what I mean by building her confidence.
 

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No reputable trainer in their right mind would even consider doing bite work with a fear aggressive dog. Protection training does not instill confidence in a dog like that, it reinforces their fear as LucyDog said. You are asking for trouble and a lawsuit. She is not "pretending" to be aggressive. She cannot determine what is a real threat and what is not, because she is extremely insecure. Rewarding her for that behavior only tells her that EVERYONE is a threat.

This person you are seeing is not a good trainer. At all. Find a new one, ASAP. If you want to get into protection work, find a REPUTABLE protection trainer. When they tell you your dog is not suitable for that training, they will be able to help you with what to look for in a future dog. Then, work with your dog on the fear aggression and building confidence the RIGHT way, so that she may live a normal life without constant management and liability on your part...because right now, she's an accident waiting to happen and that's without any real bite training.
 

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I would bet that well known trainer is not putting that dog in a situation where it is charging people on the street. He/she is probably working on building confidence and a foundation to see if they have something to work with or not. The OP's dog is not showing the characteristics that I would want if I were going to start bitework.
 

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Agreed. Just my opinion. Could be a stage of development. My male was very sharp at that point, and was kenneled whenever we had guests. He's now still protective but very social and wonderful and affectionate in the house, even with guests. Great in bitework too.
 

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I wouldn't do bitework with this dog - (from what you say) doesn't have the nerve or temperament for it. Focus on obedience, tracking, socialization, management
 

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OP- I agree with the others. Skip the protection training for now. Work on socialization and confidence. Let strangers give your dog a treat. Let him know people are not all out to get him. Build confidence by taking him on playground equipment at a local park and things like this. Expose your dog to as many things as possible. If these issues go away then start looking for a GOOD protection trainer. Right now the dog just does not seem to be in the proper state of mind mind for bite work.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Do you really want a dog who thinks it's actually a good thing to bark at every single person and strange thing she sees out in public? This is what I mean by building her confidence.
No. When she bark (at someone, or another dog) while we are walking, I just ignore her. However, when some one passed us and she just ignore him/her/it, I treat and petting her.
But the strange thing:
I took her to a busy street in downtown (so, she can be used for people and all other sounds) So, I was petting her for ignoring people, and we were ok. Suddenly, she bark aggressively toward someone (who didn't look at her, and not even close to her). Then, she explode and start barking to everyone passing. This happened 3 times, I dunno why. So, I stopped taking her downtown or any busy streets.


She cannot determine what is a real threat and what is not, because she is extremely insecure. Rewarding her for that behavior only tells her that EVERYONE is a threat.
No rewarding for that behavior (I told that to the trainer). The trainer reward her, after she bark and scared the intruder, when there is a "Burglar intruder's case". So, she can build her confidant (by feeling that her barking made the intruder to run away). And just only for the strangers who touch the fence or try to climb it. (I went there and saw the trainer with her from far. He is with her, and then he will give her the word "watch", then her ears will stand up and start looking straight. And then, the intruder (since she will be a home protection dog, which there is no attackers in this case) will start moving slowly and hidden behind cars or walls, and then when he close and she sees him trying to come to her territory, she start barking, and after 10 to 15 seconds, the intruder will retreat and start running. Finally, the trainer will reward her for protecting her territory (the house). And she was good with that.
The next step is, when the intruder didn't retreat or stop, then she have to bite. And here is her problem, no biting, and SHE (not the intruder) start retreat.


Let strangers give your dog a treat. Let him know people are not all out to get him. Build confidence by taking him on playground equipment at a local park and things like this. Expose your dog to as many things as possible. If these issues go away then start looking for a GOOD protection trainer. Right now the dog just does not seem to be in the proper state of mind mind for bite work.
I used to take her to the local park, but one time she chased a woman passing far from us, and start barking at her. The woman was really scared (she thought she was gonna attack her, and I don't blame the woman).
However, i'll try to go more often to the park with the leash.
Ill try taking her more out


gagsd, Freddy, and qbchottu thank you for your comments.
 

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If I were to train a dog to bite or in protection, I'd want the dog to have the right stuff upstairs. Strong nerves, high thresholds, confidence, a clear mind.

Any dog with poor nerves can bark. It's the ones that can think before reacting that are the ones that are right for real protection training IMO.
This, x100!!
 

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You need a new trainer, no offense. She is rewarding a lot of behaviors that aren't good....barking at someone, making them run away, and getting a reward(at ten months old with fear aggression!?)...that is NOT building confidence. You should be working on obedience, focus, and ignoring ALL other dogs and animals....it's YOUR job to protect your DOG, not his job to protect you(especially at this age with this temperament that you are describing, in my humble opinion), you are a team. I hate it when people put all this responsibility on a young, immature, dog, with little training, and behavior issues. You are on your way to having a dog that resource guards your house from EVERYTHING, including inanimate objects and non-threats.....Your trainer should know this. Good luck.
 

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Just an aside.... I have seen a very well known trainer who competes internationally working a dog as described by the OP in bitework.
Yes, but with a novice handler/owner, and right off the bat (i.e. without working on the dog's stability), combined with rewarding for fear aggression? That was my only point. I should have clarified that, unless in expert hands, it shouldn't be done.
 

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My GSD is 10 months old. And the trainer said, she don't want to bite (in her biting protection training). Is it because she still a puppy? or her personality?

I'm worry that she will never be a protective dog.

What I know about her:

*Super submissive!
*Fear aggression.
*Barking a lot at strangers.

She likes to be (or pretend) to be aggressive at strangers, by barking strongly non-stop, or heading to them like she wanna attack them. But when the person didn't care and keep heading to her, she get scare and go back "retreating".
10 months is too young and still a puppy. A legitimate dog trainer would have told you that right away.

Before you go any further, do you realize the possible consequences of having a dog that will bite a home intruder? You better have a six figure sum of money ready to hire expensive lawyers in case she does. Depending on the state, home intruders have successfully sued and claimed damages from home owners whose dog bit them. There is a much higher probability that a biting dog will bite a neighbor, family member, friend, or a service worker like the delivery person than an actual criminal.

If your dog barks at a home intruder she is doing her job. To expect more is unfair, and a liability. It is my dog's job to alert me to possible danger and it is my job to assess and take care of the danger, not theirs. 99 times out of 100 there is no danger.
 

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10 months is too young and still a puppy. A legitimate dog trainer would have told you that right away.

10 months is to young for what? Trainers for bite work in my area said that this is the best age to start:confused:
 

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10 months is to young for what? Trainers for bite work in my area said that this is the best age to start:confused:
I am talking about protection training not bite work. You can start an 8 week old puppy on bite work. You need an adult dog and human to start protection training.
 

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I am talking about protection training not bite work. You can start an 8 week old puppy on bite work. You need an adult dog and human to start protection training.

Its pretty much the same thing.
 
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