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Why would you get the hornet spray in your eyes if you are the one holding the can? It's also a lot cheaper than pepper spray or mace and a heck of a lot larger can.
Wasp spray is cheaper. My pepper spray can is about the same size/shape of a wasp spray can, probably a little larger.

I was referring to the person you're spraying's eyes. "I use wasp spray rather than pepper spray cause its cheaper" would get you owned in a courtroom when you're being sued b/c the guy you sprayed is blind.
 

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I think in general the reason why many wonder why people would want such a dog is b/c they feel like that owner is using the dog as cannon fodder should a situation happen.

I don't think EVERYONE (notice I didn't say all) feels that way. You don't want your dog to get hurt, seriously injured or worst case, die. At the sametime IF it happens the dog did it's job.

Depending on the dog, your bond, training and how jacked up it is at the time, you may not be able to call him away from someone who has a gun and is ready to shoot b/c the dog only cares to protect you.

**** I know with my 2 yr old, as soon as a gun starts coming out of a holster he goes nuts and is trying to get at you. If you point it or fire a shot it takes all my strength on the leash to stop him from going after the person. In those times I know good and well I probably won't be able to stop him if I let that leash go b/c he feels someone is trying to harm me.
 

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If I were attacked by someone I would be right there stomping the person along side my dog lol.
 

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I was refering to someone breaking into your home. If the homeowner did not want to use a firearm or other type of weapon I was suggesting the wasp spray. If an intruder tries entering my house he wont be in any courtroom. As for an intruder getting sprayed with wasp spray for breaking into a house I don't think a judge would rule in his favor, or maybe I should say he shouldn't.
 

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Hunter...I just noticed your dog from Sportwaffen. How is he. Nate is a good guy. Very knowledgable and easy to talk to.
 

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Depending on the dog, your bond, training and how jacked up it is at the time, you may not be able to call him away from someone who has a gun and is ready to shoot b/c the dog only cares to protect you.

**** I know with my 2 yr old, as soon as a gun starts coming out of a holster he goes nuts and is trying to get at you. If you point it or fire a shot it takes all my strength on the leash to stop him from going after the person. In those times I know good and well I probably won't be able to stop him if I let that leash go b/c he feels someone is trying to harm me.

This has absolutely nothing to do with a dog who cares more about trying to protect you than anything else. To say this show's a basic lack of understanding of PPD's.

If a dog will not out or return then you have a obedience problem pure and simple. To try and make excuses for it is simply hindering your training.
 

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This has absolutely nothing to do with a dog who cares more about trying to protect you than anything else. To say this show's a basic lack of understanding of PPD's.

If a dog will not out or return then you have a obedience problem pure and simple. To try and make excuses for it is simply hindering your training.
All depends on how you train and what you are training for. Some trainers will tell you your dog needs to out everytime. Some will say rather than out, you get the dog off the person.

I rather my PPD not out and I get him off the person. Attack me and I could careless if he rips you a new hole. If it's me or you...it will be you before it's me.

If your open to testing my dog's obedience you are more than free.
 

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This has absolutely nothing to do with a dog who cares more about trying to protect you than anything else. To say this show's a basic lack of understanding of PPD's.
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I dunno. If you buy one of those fully trained PPDs and it doesn't know you from Adam beyond the few days you spent learning how to "use" it at the dealer/trainer/broker's, I can see how the dog wouldn't really "care more about trying to protect you than anything else."
 

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I'd love to. let me know when you're in NYC and we can work something out.


You made my point though. Your dog isn't going to refuse to out because he loves you soooo much and wants to protect you.

He's going to refuse to out because you haven't forced him to. It's an obedience issue black and white. Now it may be an obedience issue that you are ok with and reinforce but it's still obedience.
 

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Hunter...I just noticed your dog from Sportwaffen. How is he. Nate is a good guy. Very knowledgable and easy to talk to.
Nate is an excellent guy! Jäger is awesome. Exactly the dog I wanted. Nate is great at putting the right dog with the right person and a phenomenal breeder. Videos, and pictures and such every few days from birth till I picked him up. I've even gotten christmas cards from him. Jäger is a Stuka x Olina pup. I started talking to Nate months and months before the breeding so it was like a year in the making getting the pup from him. Jäger... I've never seen a dog with his focus. His eyes will burn holes through your face, the ball, the sleeve. He is naturally extremely confident, and extremely calm & level headed. He never acts out of emotion, its always calculated.

Nate was one of the few hardcore schutzhund breeders that really seemed open to talking to me (when I started emailing him in like.. 2006 or so, I had never had a gsd and didn't know much about schutzhund that didn't come out of a book).
 

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I'd love to. let me know when you're in NYC and we can work something out.


You made my point though. Your dog isn't going to refuse to out because he loves you soooo much and wants to protect you.

He's going to refuse to out because you haven't forced him to. It's an obedience issue black and white. Now it may be an obedience issue that you are ok with and reinforce but it's still obedience.
Im never in NYC as it is too cold since im in sunny AZ. :) But if I am up there or in the MD area we can certainly train.

Like I said with my PPD I don't care for him to have a out. He spits out sleeves which I feel is perfect. Where he gets it is where he spits it out and goes right back after the decoy. I thank the trainer for teaching him that.

Now my sport dog...yes he needs to have an out as that is part of the sport. 2 different dogs, 2 different purposes in life.
 

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Nate is an excellent guy! Jäger is awesome. Exactly the dog I wanted. Nate is great at putting the right dog with the right person and a phenomenal breeder. Videos, and pictures and such every few days from birth till I picked him up. I've even gotten christmas cards from him. Jäger is a Stuka x Olina pup. I started talking to Nate months and months before the breeding so it was like a year in the making getting the pup from him. Jäger... I've never seen a dog with his focus. His eyes will burn holes through your face, the ball, the sleeve. He is naturally extremely confident, and extremely calm & level headed. He never acts out of emotion, its always calculated.

Nate was one of the few hardcore schutzhund breeders that really seemed open to talking to me (when I started emailing him in like.. 2006 or so, I had never had a gsd and didn't know much about schutzhund that didn't come out of a book).
Yeah I had a phone call or 2 with Nate when I was looking for my first dog as he was recommended to me. Spent time to talk and give me a lot of insight. I wanted a trained dog he had but when I called it was already sold. Along with a few other breeders i would certainly recommend him.

Glad to hear about your dog. Have to post some pictures and some videos of him sometime. Stuka is a **** good looking dog.
 

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Yeah I had a phone call or 2 with Nate when I was looking for my first dog as he was recommended to me. Spent time to talk and give me a lot of insight. I wanted a trained dog he had but when I called it was already sold. Along with a few other breeders i would certainly recommend him.

Glad to hear about your dog. Have to post some pictures and some videos of him sometime. Stuka is a **** good looking dog.
Pictures: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/pictures-pictures-pictures/151066-my-random-jaeger-katya-picture-thread.html

Some fresh video: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/braggs/150919-katyas-first-week-bitework.html

Nate seems to be pretty well known... Already trained with several people that know him, or know who he is. Which is crazy because he's in IN and I'm in SC. He's pretty active and committed to the sport. His whole yard is a monument to dog training.
 

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I'm not against people having a GSD to warn or act as a deterrent.

I'm not against people having a true PPD if they know what they're getting into, are able to handle it, and are willing to do the regular work and training.

I'm against people who buy a $300 puppy out of the newspaper and then come on here when the poor thing is 6 months old wondering how to make it bite on command.
Very well said , and to a great point!
 

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For people who want something along the lines of mace, my brother is a retired law enforcement officer and he told me that a can of wasp and hornet spray that shoots 20ft is just as good. :)
I missed that tangent. I would not recommend using wasp spray as a replacement for OC or mace. It is a violation of federal law to use it for other than the intended purpose and since it is a nerve agent it could even be interpreted as a WMD to land you some really bad charges.
 

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Unless you take your dog everywhere with you, then you may feel vulnerable when your dog is not around. Better to learn self defense and carry a gun if you want to feel protected.
A dog is just a deterrent and a bullet from a criminal will stop that deterrent in an instant.
Not all places allow you to have a gun. I live in Chicago. Until very recently there was a total ban on handguns. It was only lifted due to a Supreme Court ruling, and was replaced with very strict regulations. If you can manage to get a permit for one in the first place, you're not even allowed to step on the porch with it let alone carry.


This is not what service animals should be used for and anyone that "finagles' a way to get a certified SD for personal protection will make it even harder for the ones who actually need a SD to have them whereever they go.
Not to mention it is illegal.
 

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Not all places allow you to have a gun. I live in Chicago. Until very recently there was a total ban on handguns. It was only lifted due to a Supreme Court ruling, and was replaced with very strict regulations. If you can manage to get a permit for one in the first place, you're not even allowed to step on the porch with it let alone carry.



Not to mention it is illegal.
It shouldn't be. There are people with very really protection needs, and others crippled with fear that the dog is therapeutic for
 

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I think there is NOTHING wrong with the idea of having a large dog with big teeth, and a loud bark. I think you should take it and train and socialize it and make it a member of your family. No problem.

I see nothing wrong with NOT allowing people of your neighborhood to run up to it and pet it, as you want the perception of your dog to be questionable, at least to the bad guys.

I think having a dog that will bark its fool head off when someone is at your door, climbing into your window, or following you when walking is ok too.

I think as a deterrent to crime, a large dog with big teeth and a loud bark makes lots of sense.

But keeping everyone away from the dog so that it is wary of strangers, being mean to the dog to make it mean, expecting the dog to bite people even if you do not train it to do so, expecting a dog to take on gun toting idiots, allowing a dog to snap at non threatening individuals or children because you want a dog that will protect, well I don't like the idea.

I think that many of us have the dog and have been living free of problems because people know the dog is there, and somewhere else (without a dog) is easier.

I think have a personal protection dog might make sense for some people, I just cannot imagine who. I mean, if you are enough of a target to be targeted regardless of your dog, then people are going to bring a gun, and it may not be so good for the dog. The dog might give you enough time to grab a firearm. But really, who lives like that? Who needs that kind of protection. That is so Hollywood Fairy Tale land.
 

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The dog might give you enough time to grab a firearm. But really, who lives like that? Who needs that kind of protection. That is so Hollywood Fairy Tale land.
That is what keeps me armed, Selzer. I watch the news at night and see sobbing family members commenting about their loved one who were murdered in their own homes.

I want to think, "yeah, well they were most likely dealing drugs and it went wrong." I don't want to think they were a normal family sleeping in their beds and some scum bag picked their home out of the blue.

I watched 60 minutes one night about a mother and daughter who went to the grocery store. Two thugs were in the parking lot trying to decide who they were going to rob. They saw the mother with the young daughter, targeted them, followed them home, beat the father and killed the rest of the family and then set them all on fire. The father lived.

They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It happens. Sadly, it happens.
 
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