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Hi everyone :)

Here is the scenario, and it really is confusing and long so just, work with me. I'm gonna be as clear as I possibly can.

Back in March, one of my old clients said her boyfriend had found a 5-6 month old German Shepherd. When she was found she was EXTREMELY afraid of people. Would hide on the other side of the room away from people. She was really skinny, and did that "OCD like spinning" constantly. They (the client and her boyfriend) worked with her for several weeks, made sure she got her shots, spayed, and looked for her owners no one claimed her, and then my client put it up on Facebook saying they found this shepherd, free to a good home. I jumped on it because I have always grown up with GSDs and I just bought my first house, so I figured what the ****.

I fell in love with her and her quirks, she came right up to me when I met her.... I figured this was awesome and meant to be. After a week of having this dog, I get a call from the boyfriend saying how much he missed her and she was such a good dog, he put all the time into her and blah blah blah, but I felt bad and gave her back, but before I gave her back i said how she needs to be socialized more, she would benefit from obedience or a sport. I did say she needs a job cause she was very high energy, and possibly why she would spin, (she only spun a couple times with me but I gently would correct her and then take engage her in some type of activity) I said maybe a couple walks... But he kinda brushed me off saying how he has 3 other dogs and they don't need to be properly trained, they had each other... Pretty much everything I said he said he didn't need to do. I asked if he has ever had a GSD he said no but breed doesn't mean anything, apparently he never has had a puppy either... and I just said ok fine, and wished him the best. Also reminding him they usually stay puppyish til 2-3 years of age and he said ok. Brushing me off again.

Now mind you she was 7months when he was giving her to me this first time... About 2 months go by and I get a phone call saying how he regrets everything I should have kept her, but at first I was on the fence about taking her back because after the whole thing with this guy, my boyfriend bought me a 6week old GSD from a rescue and she has been my world from day one. So I waited about a couple weeks before introducing the two dogs to see how things would go. By then my baby was 10 weeks old. And it went great and the two girls have been best friends ever since. I go over to this guys house almost everyday, sometimes I would take her to my house and work with both of them, walking and rollerblading, rebuilding my relationship with the one shepherd and also strengthing a bond between the two girls.

2 weeks go by and this guy starts thinking "oh every time you come back with her she is a totally different dog, she is so good, why don't we share her." And I thought that was weird and I told the guy if he wanted to keep her then cool. But I need to detach myself because I've been getting really attached to her. I would rather just have her, she can be mine, he was welcome to come over and see her when ever, and when I work and go to school I would bring her over so she can have some freedom. At least til I'm able to put in a dog door. He doesn't live far so it wouldn't be an issue and the little one goes to my moms but my poor mom can't handle three dogs for 8 hours >.<

So he said he was gonna think about it and I backed off a little bit, and one day i decided to go over and let my puppy play with her buddy and I am met by the whole pack of his dogs and this guy... His neighbor looked at me saying how he was in a bad mood and then when I went to play with the dogs he was just yelling how stupid the shepherd was, he was ready to ship her off, she knocked over the water bowl and flooded the kitchen, every time he gets near her she pees, he grabs her by the scruff when she is doing something wrong and "submits" her and she will pee. She has horrible desperation anxiety, he is constantly yelling at her. She gets into the cat litter and antagonizes the cats. Drives the other dogs crazy. She tries "herd" the one dog when they play fetch. And looked at him and said "have you maybe walked Her at all?" Played tug... Anything????" And he said no and I tried to explain how she was bored, she needs a job and then he said he had to go to work so I left it alone...

I went and talked to his neighbor and asked about why she has been peeing when he comes around her, cause she never used to do that before. And she said its even when she hears his voice. She will just pee. And I even got the pleasure of witnessing that when he came home later that day. He was trying to get her to come to him and she would so he grabbed her scruff and the coward down a bit and peed :( it was rather sad. So since then I have been trying to build her confidence and bring my little one with me. It seems to help. I bring her to my house. Go for walks, rollerblading... This guy doesn't have any toys for her so I let her go crazy at my house. It looks like a puppy toy factory at my place. It's sad cause its like she doesn't know what to do. She is always on edge. If the two are napping in the living room at my house and I move... The older puppy jumps up and has to see what's going on. It's like she just doesn't know how to relax... Or be a puppy for that matter. But she is very good with my little one. And the little one is very well trained so far at 4 months old so the little one will teach the older one tricks :) it's cute! And to prove to this guy that the older one isn't "stupid/retarded" I taught both the girls "leave it" in 15 minutes... And I took pictures of them doing it... I also explained to them how I don't have issues with her at all. She comes to me when asked, she doesn't pee or run from me. She is actually a pretty great dog... A little hyper and anxious but I think if
I fully take her and give her time to adjust. She will calm down. I've also worked with socializing her. Taking her to petsmart and petco, putting treats in people's hands and they would feed both dogs... And they do amazingly. They can't believe she does any of this either.

So I guess what I'm asking from everyone is what is your opinion on the situation? I'm leaning toward taking the girl from this guy. What would you do?

If I wasn't clear on something please let me know. I'm typing all of this off of my phone so I do apologize if its hard to read. If I need to clarify let me know.

Also as a side note she isn't fed good food and her coat is EXTREMLY rough. Like Brillo pad-ish. Now my experience with shepherds tells me that's not normal. Heck, my puppy is getting her adult fur in and she is still silky smooth. but i give her cooked scrambled egg in the morning with her kibble. And I switch up other stuff everyday. Like the little one got cooked chicken, blue berries and sweet potato in her kibble. I've been reading about the raw/homemade diet for both dogs... Any suggestions on that to. View attachment 98425 View attachment 98433 View attachment 98441 ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707735.714244.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707748.480890.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707760.103347.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707776.962963.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707794.015145.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707811.007820.jpg ImageUploadedByPG Free1375707824.156822.jpg


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You are right. That was hard to read :) IMHO I think you should keep her permanently. She would be better taken care of. It can't be good for her being passed back and forth. So what would I do? I would keep her and give her a forever home.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The only thing standing in my way is I'm waiting on my fence permit to go through so I can finish what the previous owners of this house didn't. Should be one more week and then I was thinking about just flat out asking the guy if I can keep her.


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I would just keep her. Being around this guy seems to be damaging to her confidence, among other things, and so it would likely just be better if the less time she had to spend around him, the better.
 

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Even if you can't keep her, I would have to get her out of there.
This guy sounds like something I am not allowed to post on the forum. Poor dogs.

There is a possibility, with two females, that you could have same-sex aggression down the road, when they mature. You might have to crate and rotate and not let them be together, in the future.
But I would still get her out of there, even if I had to find her home myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Lol yeah that was something I was thinking about as well. I have had same sex dogs before, males and females. Ive never had any issues yet... (knock on wood) So I'm not too worried... But it does sit in the back of my mind as a possibility. And yeah... His training style is kinda barbaric.. And all of his dogs were brought up like that. :/ but apparently he usually gets dogs 4 years and up... This is his first puppy... Ehh... He just isn't getting it... And is in my opinion really rough with her when he grabs her scruff. So I bought a harness so he can grab that instead of her... But his neighbor says he only uses it when in around :(


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That's sad to read how that guy was treating her. With no respect for her or her feelings. Sounded like the dog was in fear everytime he got near her. I would not hesitate to keep her for yourself. She would be better off and gives your new puppy a playmate. They look so happy together. What ever you do please keep that dog away from that guy. BTW she looks adorable. :)

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Lol thank you :) they are really great together... Lol so far. I do have a habit of speaking too soon! And I was thinking that if for some odd reason it goes south with the two females. I have a neighbor that said they were willing to help to. They have had German shepherds since 1970 (that's what the old man said :D) lol they also have an 8 year old male, I have sent the girls over to play with him and they all get along famously!
Has anyone dealt with herding issues though before. The older puppy decided she was gonna try and "herd" me on our walk the other day. I notice she would look up often, and ive always read in books that a "not-so-confident" dog will always look to you for approval, so i didnt think much of it... and then i notice she kept cutting me off and go from one side of me to another.. and then seriously, put her mouth on my foot. (Didn't bite down) so I stopped and wouldn't let me walk forward. I tried to step and her mouth would just grab my ankle. Again not biting down... It was just placed on my ankle.... It was so weird! I just stayed still. Thinking about things I've read... What I could possibly do... So, all I could come up with at the moment Was to firmly say no. And then tried to walk again. She grabbed my ankle... Repeated the process. Even asking her to sit. She did... And then we finally went back on our merry way... And I did notice with the guys dog she will specifically herd and circle, and cut off this one dog when I play fetch with him. Do you embrace the instinct to herd (maybe find some local classes) or redirect, correct, and/or distract. I usually only see this behavior when she is bored. And the ankle thing was new. Comical at first... But slightly annoying when a storm was coming and I was trying to get the pups home before we got drenched >.<


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There would be no doubt in my mind about keeping her. She's peeing when she hears his voice? She's scared of him. She's confused as to what he wants, and gets scared by his reaction. He says she a different dog when you bring her back, yet he's not willing to do any of the stuff you suggest? He doesn't deserve her and she deserves better! Poor baby :(


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That's actually what makes me want her more! The fact he doesn't wanna do anything I suggest. I even said, just roller blade or bike ride with her for a half hour. She just needs a half hour of just running and she is good as gold the rest of the day... I think anyone can spare that in their day... And then maybe give the poor dog some toys! He doesn't even have toys for this poor girl! (He says its because of the other dogs) but I tried to explain she needs mental stimulation as well... He does a have a kong she enjoys flipping around but I guess they says she hasn't been playing with it much/.. And I said its probably because she is bored with it... And suggested those puzzles... Petco.... 15 bucks... Come on now... It's really not rocket science...


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I'm 100% with everyone that you should get her, she looks so happy with you. I loved the picture where your two girls looked like they were hugging just precious..

This guys sounds like a real piece of work and should not have Any dogs , just horrible. Feel so bad for the poor girl :(

I hope you get the dog and everything works out great, best of luck...

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What's her name by the way? Those two girls look like they have been together forever, I have two a male and female a puppy and a 3 year old and they aren't that close and they live together 24/7 just saying :D

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Discussion Starter #19
And I do wanna say
Granted... To each there own on training. If your into the submissive/dominant thing... Great... I'm really not trying to bash anyone's training method. I know that theory has been around forever. And lots of people still stick with it. And some things kinda make sense if you read into all the different methods out there... But if your dog is peeing on the floor when your near and not to mention shying away, (I'm sure some people can say it might be an excited pee... That's why I added the shying away portion) you should change your training method. A dog should want to please you and do what you ask not be afraid of you if she doesn't do it, or do it correctly... I mean... That makes sense right? I was reading other topics on training and know that there are ALOT of people that still do that and suggest that. And I didn't wanna offend or knock anyone down. Some people... And animals it works for... Fine... But most... Not so much...


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