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Ok now before this starts a huge lecture/debate, let me start by saying I am not in any position right now to start breeding GSDs. It will be several years before I have the proper facilities, land, etc. BUT, I'm a serial hobbyist and like to learn as much as I can about everything I do, and I always make it a point to be one of the best at anything I take up!

My male is only 5 1/2 months old right now, he starts obedience and schutzhund in January. I don't know his lines because I have not yet received his papers in the mail. I also haven't had him x-rayed yet because the vet said for the sake of only having to do it once lets wait until he's full grown.

So, for the purpose of this thread: let's assume his hips/elbows/and health screening all check out, lets assume he is from german working lines (months of researching has led me to this conclusion but, I will see for sure when we get the papers,) and lastly let's assume he excels and I title him in a couple of things over the next few years.

IF he turns out to be breeding material, and I will be checking with various clubs and the schutz people I'm seeing on there opinion of this, then I will be in the market for a high quality bitch. She will come into our home first and foremost as a companion/working dog. But I plan to buy an adult female, titled, breed-worthy, etc. So that being the case, what kind of lines are a good match for a german working type dog. Rambo has high prey drive, and high pack drive, good nerve, and I want to maintain these attributes.

I'm very, very interested in the czech lines, but would these likely be a good match? Let me know your opinions.
 

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Hahaha, noo I really hope it doesn't go down that road! I'm not some unintelligent fella just trying to make a buck. I'm a hardworking, educated person, and I love the dog sports and the breed in general. I have a lot of learning to do about genetics, training, and everything that goes along with breeding. But I am not shying away from that fact or pretending to know everything I need to know.

There's actually an x-factor to this whole thing: What kicked me off to this idea is the fact that central Kentucky is just overflowing with BYB's, and plenty of people willing to support them. Kentucky is in no way a progressive state, and is very uneducated as a whole. The idea is that if I can someday be in a financial situation that allows me to breed quality german shepherds, foster, and rehabilitate gsd's from shelters, I can sell adults (rescued) and puppies (bred by me and/or rescued) at a price that is comparable to the many BYB's around here, I can perhaps manage to "put out" some of the bad breeders by making them irrelevant.
 

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Um, well, without knowing his pedigree no one can (or I should say SHOULD) tell you what to breed your dog to.

As an aside...why on earth did you purchase you dog without knowing his background??? How do you NOT know his pedigree--with or without papers in hand???
 

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Also, you should probably be looking at things first like health screening and titling before even beginning to worry about the bitch to breed him to. For instance, you should be doing prelim xrays on him around a year with final xrays at 2 years.

What do YOU think the minimum criteria is to test his temperament before you breed him (ie titles). What is it that you are interested in producing? What is it that you want to accomplish?

When you do find out his bloodlines...those are other things that people will need to know. If you are interested in primarily showing vs. herding vs. SAR vs. Schutzhund vs. SDA etc.
 

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I just want to add even titling a dog (all the way to SchH3) does that necessarily mean it's breeding material. We'll all be better off if people are just a bit more picky about breeding!
 

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Um, well, without knowing his pedigree no one can (or I should say SHOULD) tell you what to breed your dog to.

As an aside...why on earth did you purchase you dog without knowing his background??? How do you NOT know his pedigree--with or without papers in hand???
I'd just like some ideas about what common combination's are among different lines, or if most stick to the same lines because it results in more stable temperaments maybe?

And as for the second part, when I bought the pup I didn't even know there was a such thing as a reputable breeder vs. a byb. This forum has opened my eyes to so much that goes on, and in my area you can open the newspaper year 'round and see "akc german shepherd pups for sale" and not just one ad, but several. It's almost an epidemic. And I've been thinking lately about what a solution could be. The fact is as long as people are buying dogs from these people, it's not going to stop. So fostering and rescuing isn't enough. I believe you can "market" so to speak, to people who don't understand the crisis, and get them to buy from a reputable breeder (hopefully me in a few years)--but that breeder would have to use the general public's outlets (newspaper, craigslist) and be at their price range (~500). You won't find any reputable breeders taking this approach, which is understandable.

But in the eyes of the purchaser, they would see all these ads and then one would stand out because they have "champion bloodlines, certified hips, health guarantee, etc." So if it's around the same price, why would someone NOT buy from that person? And then of course the main difference would be that a dog that didn't work out, would be returned to the breeder (me) and not taken to a shelter.

Keep in mind this is a thread for gathering info and I'm just thinking through this. No new puppies are in the near future so there is no need to start panicking :rolleyes:
 

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I agree with GSDelsa, health screen, have acceptable hips & elbows, and accomplish a SchH1, then explore breeding the dog. Between here and there, study.
Yes this is my current plan, but it's just really interesting to me and I wanted to begin getting a feel for what other breeder's are doing.
 

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So if it's around the same price, why would someone NOT buy from that person? And then of course the main difference would be that a dog that didn't work out, would be returned to the breeder (me) and not taken to a shelter.
I don't envy the amount of money, time and stress a breeder must go through to have a litter of pups. Not to mention the time spent finding and training a suitable stud or dam.

Most reputable breeders sell expensive pups because all of that money goes back into the program with little profit.

I know my breeder spent a few thousand on breedings that never took, it's just a loss that she has to deal with.

With that said, I am extremely thankful for the breeders that spend the time, money and deal with all the stress and heartache to breed such wonderful dogs.
 

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There's actually an x-factor to this whole thing: What kicked me off to this idea is the fact that central Kentucky is just overflowing with BYB's, and plenty of people willing to support them. Kentucky is in no way a progressive state, and is very uneducated as a whole. The idea is that if I can someday be in a financial situation that allows me to breed quality german shepherds, foster, and rehabilitate gsd's from shelters, I can sell adults (rescued) and puppies (bred by me and/or rescued) at a price that is comparable to the many BYB's around here, I can perhaps manage to "put out" some of the bad breeders by making them irrelevant.
Here's something to think about. While you may be producing better dogs than the BYB, the people down there are still uneducated as to why your dogs are better. I don't know that your plan will actually put BYB out of business but instead just add to the population and perhaps encourage even more people to breed since they now have "better" dogs. While I think the heart is in the right place, I'm not sure that it will work out exactly as you hope it will.

Something you can do now is search for ways to educate the public in your area about the differences between BYB and reputable ones and why one is better than the other.
 

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So, for the purpose of this thread: let's assume his hips/elbows/and health screening all check out, lets assume he is from german working lines (months of researching has led me to this conclusion but, I will see for sure when we get the papers,) and lastly let's assume he excels and I title him in a couple of things over the next few years.
IMO - even if every person on this forum gave you their opinion of what would be the best lines to breed to - when you begin training and showing you are going to be surrounded by different lines of dogs (and different breeders) and you will begin to form your own opinion of what lines you are attracted to and feel would compliment your dog's blood lines the best.
 

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IMO - even if every person on this forum gave you their opinion of what would be the best lines to breed to - when you begin training and showing you are going to be surrounded by different lines of dogs (and different breeders) and you will begin to form your own opinion of what lines you are attracted to and feel would compliment your dog's blood lines the best.
I think that couldn't be said any better. You'll be able to talk to other people and just keep learning learning learning from their background and experience to start adding to YOURS!
 

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Ffirst and foremost, good breeders start with the best bitch they can buy, not the male that they have. then you can breed her to the best male that will compliment her strengths and improve on her weaknesses.

So my suggestion to you would be to learn all you can in the next few years with the dog you have (training, bloodlines, etc.) so that when you are financially ready, you will have the knowledge base to start right.
 

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Have to say I disagree with the above poster. While many breeders start with a great bitch I know many breeders start with a phenomenal dog. The truth of the matter is that although a good bitch is invaluable she will never have the impact on the breed as a good (or bad) stud can. Remember that a bitch can only be bred (and thus pass her genetics) once a year whereas a stud can produce 50+ litters a year. There is nothing wrong with starting with a strong dog and buying bitches that compliment him.

That said I think the OP has a long way to go before he's there. Read here, research, talk to (what I mean is listen) as many breeders as possible. The questions you are asking are highlight a lack of basic knowledge in breeding theory.

Just so you know OP, you can have the best dog of one line and breed the best dog to another line and produce a litter of crappers. Dogs have to compliment each other.
 

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Have to say I disagree with the above poster. While many breeders start with a great bitch I know many breeders start with a phenomenal dog. The truth of the matter is that although a good bitch is invaluable she will never have the impact on the breed as a good (or bad) stud can. Remember that a bitch can only be bred (and thus pass her genetics) once a year whereas a stud can produce 50+ litters a year. There is nothing wrong with starting with a strong dog and buying bitches that compliment him.
With respect to Andaka's comment, I would say an excellent male (world class) can have an impact on the "breed", but Daphne's point is in regards to a foundation bitch and establishing a kennel. Those are two different discussions in my view......and if I ever suffered a closed head injury where I woke-up with the desire to start a kennel, it would most certainly be with an outstanding female.
 

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If you are planning on buying a started/adult bitch, than I do not see any problem with beginning with a dog pup.

I disagree with doing pre-lims. They do nothing for you, except they may discourage you if they do not come out the way you want them to, then you may give up schutzhund etc, if hips or elbows do not look awesome at 12 months. Whatever. Personally, I would not want to double the x-rays and anesthetic. You can do the x-rays at two and get ofa certified, unless the dog has a problem that you are seeing.

NONE of us can tell you what to look for in a mate at this time in the game. Your pup is 5.5 months old. He does not have his adult conformation, temperament, drives, ability yet. So all you could really do is a possible pairing on bloodlines and pedigree. And as that is not here, we cannot even say what dogs you might want to stay away from. (I am not into working lines, so I would not know.)

Anyhow, there is NO reason on earth not to start thinking and learning about the whole nine yard NOW. Waiting until the dog has a Schutzhund 1 to START thinking about it??? Well, I think you should read everything you can get your hands on NOW about breeding, genetics, training, german shepherds. At the same time, start studying dogs and their pedigrees.

You will be two years ahead of the game when your dog is ready to be bred.
 

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The male female thing. I think that it makes more sense to get the female already as an adult. If your male turns out, or not, ok, you had a good time, training and titling him anyways, you can ALWAYS find a good stud dog and pay a stud fee.

But females, starting with a puppy is a huge crap shoot. After two years, hip dysplasia. Next puppy, after two years, still a bit too shy. Next puppy after two years of training etc, and she simply does not get pregnant, or she has a major conformation fault -- grew too big, happy tail, etc. Getting an adult bitch to start your kennel with, breeding her to a dog that best complements her, and then holding back some female puppies to see which one is the best to move forward with makes sense.
 

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There is nothing wrong with wanting to talk pedigrees, that's how a lot of us learned. You would have done better by having the pedigree of your dog first and not even talking about breeding your dog so people could stay focused on the pedigree and the lecturing doesn't get started. Once you say you are thinking about breeding, people are going to subject you to all kinds of scrutiny and forget all about you want pedigree infomation. Even if you say you are going to wait until hips and certs you will still get the lectures, Soooo just ask about the pedigree and leave out your breeding plans. PM me your dogs pedigree and I will see if I can help with some pedigree talk and possible lines.
 
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