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Hello, so i have a shiloh shepherd but you guys are great help so ill ask this here to.

My breeder stated I need to keep the protein under 24% so she doesnt grow to quick. But after much research ive found that its actually the calcium and phosphorus that need to be kept in check and that the lower protein has more carbs and leads to more poop.

So ive been feeding 4health large breed grain free from tractor supply. Its not bad but like i said its high in carbs.

So ive been trying to find a suitable replacement kibble to feed her. Shes 7mo old and 70lbs.

I am on a limited income so price is a problem. 4 health is 1.23$ per pound. Id like to stay below 1.60$

Id prefer to stay grain free if i can.

Im switching my lab from 4 health to ToTW as shes only 50lbs. But as for my shiloh, they dont advertise their clac/phos ratings.

I was looking into blue bufflao wilderness puppy lrg breed but the caloric intake is only 100 more. The protein is however 11% more with 1% more fiber and fat, so the carbs should respectfully go down about 10% give or take 2%. And their calc/ phos are 1.2 and .9 respectfully which is on par wity what im currently feeding her.

But anyways, you guys are the experts so ill throw it to you, is this a suitable replacement that is worth my money or is their something a better kibble out there in my price range. Thanks!

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My vet just told me Friday to take my gsd off of large breed puppy and put on adult food at 6 months of age. Said something about the muscles, etc... catching up with the bones/joints at that age is more important than the slowed weight gain. I am still Checking into it. Maybe others on here have more knowledge on it.
 

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Well the main reason I was looking into blue wilderness' lrg breed puppy forumla was because it was cheaper than their adult large breed hahaha. But if what youre saying is true, that would be great id only have to get one food!

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My vet just told me Friday to take my gsd off of large breed puppy and put on adult food at 6 months of age. Said something about the muscles, etc... catching up with the bones/joints at that age is more important than the slowed weight gain. I am still Checking into it. Maybe others on here have more knowledge on it.
My vet said the same thing at 8 months so I transitioned to Victor lamb and rice but found out ash is 11 % which is high especially for a lbp, so I will transition again to Annamaet Encore in a few weeks.
My vet also recommended protein at 25% or less.
I won't feed grain free kibble unless my pup develops an allergy to grains. Grain free kibbles tend to be higher in protein, calcium and phosphorous.
 

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My vet said the same thing at 8 months so I transitioned to Victor lamb and rice but found out ash is 11 % which is high especially for a lbp, so I will transition again to Annamaet Encore in a few weeks.
My vet also recommended protein at 25% or less.
I won't feed grain free kibble unless my pup develops an allergy to grains. Grain free kibbles tend to be higher in protein, calcium and phosphorous.
Did you ask you vet why she recommended less than 25% protein?

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Here is some info on Protein for LBP's:

Protein is Not the Culprit -- Excess Calories and Minerals Are

Researchers have studied the diets of large breed dogs for over 30 years to understand the link between improper nutrition and skeletal problems.
Studies have repeatedly concluded dietary protein levels have no effect on the development of skeletal problems in large and giant breed dogs.
But still today, many breeders of large dogs, owners and even some veterinarians will tell you protein is the problem, even though there is no evidence to prove it.
Protein excess is not the problem. In fact, it's often a dietary protein deficiency that contributes to skeletal problems.
The elements of nutrition that have been scientifically proven to negatively impact skeletal development in puppies are excessive calories and high or unbalanced mineral content, specifically calcium and phosphorusi Merrick Vet Manuel.
Why Excess Mineral Content is a Problem

The bodies of puppies aren't able to control or limit absorption of dietary calcium and certain other minerals.
Absorption, of course, occurs through the intestines. The higher the calcium and mineral content of the diet, the greater the level of absorption and assimilation into the developing bone structure of the puppy. This can disturb the natural process of bone growth and result in lesions in the skeleton and joints.
High mineral concentrations in the diet can quickly cause bone mineral changes that play into skeletal abnormalities in a growing puppy. These include hypertrophic osteodystrophy, also called HOD. This is a severely painful bone disease that affects multiple limbs and causes lameness. Also craniomandibular osteopathy, a disease that affects the bones of the skull, including the lower jaw.
A high mineral content diet has also been shown to cause conformation problems and abnormalities in both stature and weight gain.
Puppies who get too big, too fast and go on to develop orthopedic issues are typically fed a very tasty, high energy, high mineral content diet.
Many of these puppies are free-fed. Others are simply fed too much at each meal. The problematic high energy nutrient in all these diets tends to be too many carbohydrates.





What about those large breed puppy foods? Traditional puppy foods often provide much higher calorie content than large breed puppies require, causing them to gain too much weight too quickly. This is why pet food manufacturers began producing formulas specifically for large breed puppies.
These are typically diets lower in calorie density (the number of calories per cup or gram of food) than a regular puppy diet. They're also usually lower in calcium on an energy basis.
These are two very important factors for reducing too-rapid growth in big puppies. Some adult foods may also be low calorically, but often they have high calcium content on an energy basis, which is not what you want for a growing large or giant breed pup.
If you're going to feed kibble to a large breed puppy, I recommend you look for special large breed puppy formulas OR a formula that is "Approved for all life stages." This means the food is appropriate for growing puppies or adult dogs.
I do not recommend feeding a traditional (high growth) puppy food to large breed puppies. Do You Know What to Feed Your Large or Giant Breed Puppy?







"In studies thus far, the differences in protein intake have not been shown to affect the occurrence of disturbed skeletal development in young Great Danes, and an etiologic role for dietary protein in the development of osteochondrosis in dogs is unlikely." (16) Nap RC, Hazewinkel HAW, Voorhout G, et al. Growth and skeletal development in Great Dane pups fed different levels of protein intake. J Nutr 1991;121(11 Suppl):S107-S113.




Moms:)



 

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I did that too and used Fromm LBP until 7 months then switched to a Fromm adult on the low fat end, with the right percentage of calcium to phosphorus. I saw nothing in then LBP to indicate it had too much protein or promoted rapid growth. My dog has always been on the low end of the growth charts, so the LBP did nothing bad.
 

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^^ I did this too.. But my girl was a fast grower and was getting pano.. She got pano whatever I fed her, but I figured I would error on the side of caution.. Different dogs, different growth rates, you have to be flexible and do what you think is best with the knowledge you have available... But Fromm is a great food imo
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is pano? And my shiloh is already on the lower end, it seems most of her siblings are bigger than her and i believe most of them are on raw.

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To slow her growth and not put too much weight on her frame.
Depending on who you ask. Alot of research is showing that rapid growth is not caused my protein but an excessive amount of minerals more specifically calcium and phosphorus. Also over feeding in general leads to rapid growth.

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Depending on who you ask. Alot of research is showing that rapid growth is not caused my protein but an excessive amount of minerals more specifically calcium and phosphorus. Also over feeding in general leads to rapid growth.

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Just a holistic vet I trust more than anonymous ppl on the internet. She actually recommended feeding raw which I may do in the future. And yes, I probably did overfeed my pup a bit, 5 cups/day. She'd eat a whole bag if I let her..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Im not saying your vets wrong, im just saying its a huge debate amoung professionals in the field. Thats why i said "depending on who you ask".

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