[catsakata]

Hi! I've been a longtime lurker of this forum but only recently made an account as I am almost certainly going to be getting a GSD in the next 5 years! So to introduce myself a little, I'm Cat, 21, and dogs have been a major interest to me for a very long time, but over the past few years I've gotten more and more into ethical breeding, dog sports, high drive dogs, dog training, etc. But even with all my lurking and researching, I'm still uncertain of what lines and breeders would give me the exact thing I'm looking for a dog so I'm hoping to get some clarity by posting here. I have been compiling a bunch of questions for a while now so I apologize if this post is long.

So I'll start off with just stating my ideal dog: I'm looking for a companion that I can learn a bite sport with- but not at the expense of their ability to be a good companion, a very confident, very adaptable, driven but not Malinois levels of neurotic, I'm interested in trick training and possibly some random dog sports if we do well at them so biddability is important, probably medium energy (I do have questions on this further down though), they don't need to be a social butterfly but I would like to take them on outings with me when possible, affectionate but not overly needy or dependent to the point I can't ever not pay attention something other than them (I temporarily watched a sweet bully mutt who would sit next to you screaming if you weren't petting her).

My ideal week with a fully mature dog would probably be: 20-30 minutes of walking, jogging, or biking daily in the morning and evening (training will likely be done during these to wear them out mentally), one to three 15-30 minute sessions of high energy activity (flirt or spring pole, fetch, treadmill, etc.) throughout the day, multiple 5-30 minute training sessions throughout the day (depending on what we're training), possibly some food enrichment or scent work as well to keep them entertained in the house. Then ideally once a week we would go to training for schutzhund or another bitesport/PPD training, possibly weekly trips to off leash areas or hikes, possibly another dog sport like agility or weight-pulling etc., ideally some occasional outings if my boyfriend/husband and I want to go to a dog friendly restaurant or something similar.

But as everyone does, I'm gonna have days where I wake up feeling like death and not want to do all those things, so I would like an adaptable dog that can handle days off occasionally. I also need a dog with the capability to have an off switch, they can be raring to go when it's outside time but I want them to be able to chill out in the house (and I understand a good chunk of the takes training an off switch which I will absolutely do).

I've heard mix things about how intense working lines actually are; some people insist that no one should have a working GSD unless they are dedicated to spending all day working their dog, but then some say they only train their dogs 15 minutes a day and they have amazing off switches. I'm not against showlines at all but I do want to do some kind of bitesport with my dog and training is a major interest to me, so am I too off base to say I could handle a working line? I am inexperienced with working dogs like these, but this will be 4+ years out and I will certainly be working with a trainer. I know there are different lines and obviously breeders with different goals but I need some guidance with what I should be looking for.

(Apologies for the rambling and very long post)

 

[WNGD]

I couldn't get by the "cat" in your screen name

 

[drparker151]

I have two medium drive work line GSDs, they are campanion dogs, biddable, clear headed with an off switch. Loyal and velcro. They do not need me touching and petting them, however they do want to be near me. One is current laying down under my desk the other on a couch in the same room, If I where to head to bathroom they would follow.

We live and travel fulltime in RV, they do need physical ane mental exercise regularly. Living in an RV means all outside activity requires I go to, so rainy, cold, with the flu is still at a minimum 4 walks a day.

My 2.75 year old girl can handle that pretty well. My 9 month old at the time, now 1 year old boy was a bundle of pent of energy bounce off the walls literally by day three. A 30 minute session of tongue hanging low exercise and the good boy with an off switch returned.

Find a good breeder, be honest with the breeder, be willing to wait.

If you haven't seen it this is a good read:
Temperament

 

[Sonny1984]

Go to clubs, watch the dogs. Seeing, in person, the variety of temperments amongst GSDs will be incredibly helpful

 

[GSD07]

It’s a great post and excellent goal setting! You can have all of that with any line. With a decent working line capable of doing what you listed here and with no experience on your part, you will probably have to invest 5 years into working with your dog to achieve your dream dog. You will be doing tons of reality checks as you go.

this “possibly some food enrichment or scent work as well to keep them entertained in the house” you can forget. It will take your dog 1 sec to find a scent in your home, not much entertainment.

 

[UnlimitedGSD]

On the couch OTCh Phyre vom Patiala IPO3 Kkl (13) and her daughter Askew von Tighe Haus IGP3 (8.5)
Lying on the back of the couch is Askew's daughter Fredi von Tighe Haus BH-VT FPr1 (2.5)

 

[Jorski]

Find a local Schutzund/IGP club. Ask if you can come out and watch the training.You will meet a bunch of owners and their dogs. Over time you will get a feel for just what level of energy suits you. The dogs that you like will naturally lead you to breeders to meet.

Always be aware, that any single dog from a breeder may be an anomoly. That's why meeting the breeders is also important.

I think you can find what you're looking for, the more you learn about the breed and the more dogs you meet, the better you will do in your search.

 

[catsakata]

Thank you to everyone who's responded! I definitely plan on getting involved with the local clubs before I get my puppy but I'm waiting to do that till my boyfriend and I have moved into a stand alone home which is why this is probably a 4+ yr plan. But I appreciate the honesty, I let the people who insist you can't have a life with a working dog get to my head it seems lol. I imagine the puppies can be little terrors at time, but the end dog seems very much worth it.

 

[wolfy dog]

I let the people who insist you can't have a life with a working dog get to my head it seems lol.

That's why I wasted 20 years before i decided to educate myself. Deja is all I ever wanted and she is a strong working line dog. And yes, they are intense but doable. Smart that you are ahead of me in that decision.

 

[oink]

I think a good breeder will set you up with the right puppy! I'm in shock at how well my breeder delivered based on only short conversations.

I'm excited to see how my puppy will grow and how much stimulation she will really need in the future.

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

So I'll start off with just stating my ideal dog: I'm looking for a companion that I can learn a bite sport with- but not at the expense of their ability to be a good companion, a very confident, very adaptable, driven but not Malinois levels of neurotic, I'm interested in trick training and possibly some random dog sports if we do well at them so biddability is important, probably medium energy (I do have questions on this further down though), they don't need to be a social butterfly but I would like to take them on outings with me when possible, affectionate but not overly needy or dependent to the point I can't ever not pay attention something other than them (I temporarily watched a sweet bully mutt who would sit next to you screaming if you weren't petting her).

I've heard mix things about how intense working lines actually are; some people insist that no one should have a working GSD unless they are dedicated to spending all day working their dog, but then some say they only train their dogs 15 minutes a day and they have amazing off switches. I'm not against showlines at all but I do want to do some kind of bitesport with my dog and training is a major interest to me, so am I too off base to say I could handle a working line? I am inexperienced with working dogs like these, but this will be 4+ years out and I will certainly be working with a trainer. I know there are different lines and obviously breeders with different goals but I need some guidance with what I should be looking for.

You seem very prepared and I have no doubt you'll be able to find what you're looking for. This is exactly the kind of information I'd share with a prospective breeder, who should be able to tell you if that's the kind of dog they're producing, which litters might have a puppy that's appropriate for you, and if not to maybe suggest some other breeders to contact. The more clear you are about what you do and don't want, the better.

Your ideal dog is very close to our Cava, she's our second working line shepherd. We've also had two American line and two West German Showline GSDs. I don't do bite sports, but her sire and dam have competed at the regional level, and all three of her littermates are training in IGP, American Schutzhund, and/or ring sports. The two that the breeder kept, (one for her, husband would not let her part with the other so she's training both, lol) have already titled in multiple venues. My sport is flyball, which has a completely different set of challenges but requires a very stable temperament since it involves working in very close proximity to other off leash dogs both known and unknown, and being handled by lots of different people. She's pretty high energy and will pester me if she thinks she's not getting enough attention, play or training time, but she will settle in the house. I'd say her off switch is not quite as good as our previous WL girl Halo, who I also raced in flyball, but if I ignore Cava she will eventually go away and lay down somewhere. And once she's done for the day, she is DONE. After we eat dinner she curls up on the couch next to me while watch a movie or something, and that's it until morning.

In addition to flyball, she's my hiking partner, and during Covid when we weren't practicing I got trick titles on her - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, and Expert. We also took a couple dock diving classes and she thought that was great fun. I think Cava would excel at anything I wanted to pursue with her, she loves to train, picks up new things very quickly, and is very biddable. She can be a social butterfly though, she really likes people and dogs and is affectionate but not needy. We've taken her to wineries, brewpubs, she's gone out to lunch with us at places with dog friendly outdoor seating, dozens of different places, she's gone to a huge music festival at Golden Gate Park in SF three times where she met tons of people, and even to a wedding reception last year. She's basically the perfect companion dog but also a terrific intense, driven sport dog, very competitive. She's also a great traveler, in our area flyball tournaments are far enough way that we spend 2 or 3 nights in a hotel each time.

I can't imagine anyone advising that people who weren't willing or able to dedicate all day to work their dogs shouldn't own WL GSDs. Both our WL girls were/are confident, social, determined, and athletic.

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

My working line dog - hogging the couch

At the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in Golden Gate Park, attendance of 500,000 people over the 3 days

Flyball racer

Lunch with a cousin and his dog at a brewery (she'd never met them before)

Hiking with a tiny friend

Trick dog, showing off her handstand

 

[catsakata]

Your ideal dog is very close to our Cava, she's our second working line shepherd. We've also had two American line and two West German Showline GSDs. I don't do bite sports, but her sire and dam have competed at the regional level, and all three of her littermates are training in IGP, American Schutzhund, and/or ring sports. The two that the breeder kept, (one for her, husband would not let her part with the other so she's training both, lol) have already titled in multiple venues. My sport is flyball, which has a completely different set of challenges but requires a very stable temperament since it involves working in very close proximity to other off leash dogs both known and unknown, and being handled by lots of different people. She's pretty high energy and will pester me if she thinks she's not getting enough attention, play or training time, but she will settle in the house. I'd say her off switch is not quite as good as our previous WL girl Halo, who I also raced in flyball, but if I ignore Cava she will eventually go away and lay down somewhere. And once she's done for the day, she is DONE. After we eat dinner she curls up on the couch next to me while watch a movie or something, and that's it until morning.

In addition to flyball, she's my hiking partner, and during Covid when we weren't practicing I got trick titles on her - Novice, Intermediate, Advanced, and Expert. We also took a couple dock diving classes and she thought that was great fun. I think Cava would excel at anything I wanted to pursue with her, she loves to train, picks up new things very quickly, and is very biddable. She can be a social butterfly though, she really likes people and dogs and is affectionate but not needy. We've taken her to wineries, brewpubs, she's gone out to lunch with us at places with dog friendly outdoor seating, dozens of different places, she's gone to a huge music festival at Golden Gate Park in SF three times where she met tons of people, and even to a wedding reception last year. She's basically the perfect companion dog but also a terrific intense, driven sport dog, very competitive. She's also a great traveler, in our area flyball tournaments are far enough way that we spend 2 or 3 nights in a hotel each time.

Wow she does sound almost exactly what I would want then, she sounds like a lovely dog. And yeah I've learned in the past few years lurking in dog communities that people tend to gate keep their breeds/lines by exaggerating how bad they can be, which I understand they're scared of the wrong dog getting into the wrong hands but it also puts off potential good owners which is frustrating to see.

Oh wow I just saw the photos, she's a stunningly gorgeous dog. I very much value temperament and personality over looks but I will say that I am very happy that a working line is a good candidate for me cause I think sable gsd are just the prettiest dogs you can have.

 

[Carter Smith]

My working line dog - hogging the couch
View attachment 597037

At the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in Golden Gate Park, attendance of 500,000 people over the 3 days

View attachment 597036

Flyball racer

View attachment 597038

Lunch with a cousin and his dog at a brewery (she'd never met them before)

View attachment 597039


Hiking with a tiny friend

View attachment 597040

Trick dog, showing off her handstand

View attachment 597041

I like your deal with Cava.. you guys are a great example of how working line doesn’t have to mean protection sport, not that it means much from a first timer like me but I like seeing it

 

[David Winners]

Hi! I've been a longtime lurker of this forum but only recently made an account as I am almost certainly going to be getting a GSD in the next 5 years! So to introduce myself a little, I'm Cat, 21, and dogs have been a major interest to me for a very long time, but over the past few years I've gotten more and more into ethical breeding, dog sports, high drive dogs, dog training, etc. But even with all my lurking and researching, I'm still uncertain of what lines and breeders would give me the exact thing I'm looking for a dog so I'm hoping to get some clarity by posting here. I have been compiling a bunch of questions for a while now so I apologize if this post is long.

So I'll start off with just stating my ideal dog: I'm looking for a companion that I can learn a bite sport with- but not at the expense of their ability to be a good companion, a very confident, very adaptable, driven but not Malinois levels of neurotic, I'm interested in trick training and possibly some random dog sports if we do well at them so biddability is important, probably medium energy (I do have questions on this further down though), they don't need to be a social butterfly but I would like to take them on outings with me when possible, affectionate but not overly needy or dependent to the point I can't ever not pay attention something other than them (I temporarily watched a sweet bully mutt who would sit next to you screaming if you weren't petting her).

My ideal week with a fully mature dog would probably be: 20-30 minutes of walking, jogging, or biking daily in the morning and evening (training will likely be done during these to wear them out mentally), one to three 15-30 minute sessions of high energy activity (flirt or spring pole, fetch, treadmill, etc.) throughout the day, multiple 5-30 minute training sessions throughout the day (depending on what we're training), possibly some food enrichment or scent work as well to keep them entertained in the house. Then ideally once a week we would go to training for schutzhund or another bitesport/PPD training, possibly weekly trips to off leash areas or hikes, possibly another dog sport like agility or weight-pulling etc., ideally some occasional outings if my boyfriend/husband and I want to go to a dog friendly restaurant or something similar.

But as everyone does, I'm gonna have days where I wake up feeling like death and not want to do all those things, so I would like an adaptable dog that can handle days off occasionally. I also need a dog with the capability to have an off switch, they can be raring to go when it's outside time but I want them to be able to chill out in the house (and I understand a good chunk of the takes training an off switch which I will absolutely do).

I've heard mix things about how intense working lines actually are; some people insist that no one should have a working GSD unless they are dedicated to spending all day working their dog, but then some say they only train their dogs 15 minutes a day and they have amazing off switches. I'm not against showlines at all but I do want to do some kind of bitesport with my dog and training is a major interest to me, so am I too off base to say I could handle a working line? I am inexperienced with working dogs like these, but this will be 4+ years out and I will certainly be working with a trainer. I know there are different lines and obviously breeders with different goals but I need some guidance with what I should be looking for.

(Apologies for the rambling and very long post)

That's pretty much my dog. He's DDR/Czech mostly. We camp full timebut when we are around home, I work 8+ hour days. I take him out for an hour in the morning, usually in the woods or swimming. He's fine in the RV until I get home and then we do it again. He's a capable and athletic dog. Coincident and outgoing. Social but not a dog that needs to meet people or dogs. He's a bit rank and definitely pushy but I like that in a dog. We just got back from New Orleans, Mardi Gras, are we were down in the French quarter on fat Tuesday. No problems.

I advise you to get in a club, meet dogs and get your pup involved early. A good dog can be a handful for a newbie.

 

[Carter Smith]

Take what I say with a grain of salt because I’m on my first wlgsd and she’s about 15months, but I definitely had the same reservations you do. I think they have needs that need to be met. They need to run, chase bite all the things that are wired into them, but they are incredibly smart and easy to train, so if you put the time in they will be what you want them to be. My girl is a busy dog, I don’t think I could physically tire her out if I tried, but I give her what I feel is sufficient outlets and let her know how I expect her to live when at home. If you start out say running your dog 5 hours a day, they are gonna always expect that. I’ll usually take her out in the morning for 30-45 minutes of a mixture or walk/fetch/tug/search, and then in then in the afternoons either something similar or some type of social outing to a store or public place where we work on distracted training. When she was really young in the evenings I’d add in some short OB teachings or if there is something new I’m training I will do it after dinner. She also had elbow surgery at 8 months and was on crate rest for 8 weeks of nothing….. we survived! You sound well prepared and well read as I was going into it, last thing I’ll say is someone with worlds experience with the breed told me something recently that really changed how I look at it, she said “don’t let the dog be on autopilot”. They are an amazing breed, I’m sort of obsessed now!

 

[catsakata]

last thing I’ll say is someone with worlds experience with the breed told me something recently that really changed how I look at it, she said “don’t let the dog be on autopilot”.

I like that saying, I didn't really think of it like that but that does help some things click a little more. Thank you for that!

 

[Cassidy's Mom]

Oh wow I just saw the photos, she's a stunningly gorgeous dog. I very much value temperament and personality over looks but I will say that I am very happy that a working line is a good candidate for me cause I think sable gsd are just the prettiest dogs you can have.

Thanks! You can see how she would attract attention when we take her places, she has a sweet, friendly demeanor and people are always wanting to meet her. Temperament is very important, it's just gravy that she's so pretty too. 🥰

I like your deal with Cava.. you guys are a great example of how working line doesn’t have to mean protection sport, not that it means much from a first timer like me but I like seeing it.

For sure. I think she could do it if that were of interest to me, she's got generations of Schutzhund/IPO/IGP titled dogs behind her so the genetics are there. But basically, I think you just need to do SOMETHING with your dog, it doesn't matter so much what it is as long as you both enjoy it. I kind of fell into flyball with Halo, when I started taking classes I had no aspirations to compete, it was just for fun. I was going to also take agility classes with her, which I'd done with a previous dog, but she took to flyball so well that we never ended up taking any agility classes and then we joined a team and started racing and that was that. When we lost her at 9-1/2 to DM, I was specifically looking for a dog to do flyball with. Fortunately, Cava loves it as much as Halo did.

If you start out say running your dog 5 hours a day, they are gonna always expect that.

Yep, it's important to meet their need for physical exercise but more isn't necessarily better, you could just end up with a very fit dog that can't settle if they don't get the massive amount of daily exercise they're used to. Mental exercise is good too - training works their brain as well as their bodies. When I was taking nosework classes with Keefer and Halo it was amazing how conked out they'd be afterwards, even though it wasn't physically taxing at all.

 

[Bearshandler]

There’s a wide range of temperaments yiu find find, which is why you’ve probably heard a range of things. Food for thought, if you want to do bite sports, you don’t want a dog that can do, you want one that can excel. I’ve seen time and time again what happens when someone tries with a dog that “can do” or something like that. I’ve done it. It’s not really fun at all. A dog that can excel not only gives you a more fun time , it’s an easier learning curve. That doesn’t preclude you from any of the things you want. That doesn’t lock you in to having to do bite sports. It doesn’t mean you’re going to have a dog rampaging all over the place all the time. The same traits that will help a dog excel in bitesports will also help them excel at the other activities. It’s about 3 things. The dog having what it takes, the dog and handler being a good fit for each other, and the work/quality of training put into the dog. The best advice is to go meet dogs, see dogs work, and learn how they live. The internet will you give ideas that are very different from the reality from what I’ve seen.

 

[Carter Smith]

Thanks! You can see how she would attract attention when we take her places, she has a sweet, friendly demeanor and people are always wanting to meet her. Temperament is very important, it's just gravy that she's so pretty too. 🥰


For sure. I think she could do it if that were of interest to me, she's got generations of Schutzhund/IPO/IGP titled dogs behind her so the genetics are there. But basically, I think you just need to do SOMETHING with your dog, it doesn't matter so much what it is as long as you both enjoy it. I kind of fell into flyball with Halo, when I started taking classes I had no aspirations to compete, it was just for fun. I was going to also take agility classes with her, which I'd done with a previous dog, but she took to flyball so well that we never ended up taking any agility classes and then we joined a team and started racing and that was that. When we lost her at 9-1/2 to DM, I was specifically looking for a dog to do flyball with. Fortunately, Cava loves it as much as Halo did.


Yep, it's important to meet their need for physical exercise but more isn't necessarily better, you could just end up with a very fit dog that can't settle if they don't get the massive amount of daily exercise they're used to. Mental exercise is good too - training works their brain as well as their bodies. When I was taking nosework classes with Keefer and Halo it was amazing how conked out they'd be afterwards, even though it wasn't physically taxing at all.

I think I’ve told you before a women I trained with competed with her collies, said it as a world of fun. A lot required from the dog to compete at high levels. The nosework stuff really interests me, I think that’s our future. First time it opened my eyes was just hiding a treat for my golden in another room in the house. 3-4 tries later I was hiding it on different floors in the house, after 10 minutes he was panting. Their noses just blow my mind.