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I keep watching videos of these trained dogs. I'm not knocking the dog or the trainer, I am only commenting on a video. In the first clip I see a guy dressed like a weirdo walking toward and standing passively in front of a dog that is going bonkers. Why? If that was a threat you could never take that dog through downtown Toronto! Lol.
I will never understand that send out for protection, but clearly it's a thing.
I see the dog pulling back a lot but I don't see him pushing in, so really he just wants the sleeve/reward.
 

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In the first clip I see a guy dressed like a weirdo walking toward and standing passively in front of a dog that is going bonkers. Why?
strictly from my own most rudimentary perspective now: because that’s what he’s been trained to do on command

I see the dog pulling back a lot but I don't see him pushing in, so really he just wants the sleeve/reward.
correct, so you train that to hidden sleeve, knowing you’ll never deploy that bite in the private sector unless/until you’ve exhausted every other available option


dog is trained to grab and hold on command while the handler neutralizes the threat


"applied herding/hunting"

I'm not sure half the dogs trained in personal protection would continue to stand in against a bad guy really swinging a bat.
agreed 100%. As far as I'm aware, the idea is to condition the dog to run the nerf bat gauntlet in order to convince him he's totally "batproof." And while the power of "mind over matter" often proves -astonishing- once the adrenaline starts rushing, ultimately it's the job of the handler to protect the dog in such situations. I've only dared express these opinions in hopes someone far more knowlegeable will please educate me.

 

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The dogs I worked needed to stay in the fight. The protection training most often seen amounts to a flashy obedience routine. I'm sorry but real world application is entirely different. My dog was all I had. No back-up, no weapons, just me and a dog whose sole purpose was to get me home at the end of the night.
The dog in the video seems a willing, intelligent animal. He clearly enjoys this, but an aggressive dog will push in keeping the pressure on. This dog pulls back wanting his reward. Pain or discomfort may make him let go.
 

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The dogs I worked needed to stay in the fight. The protection training most often seen amounts to a flashy obedience routine.
I agree but the difference is, you were on the job. Public sector "expert witness" and all that.

no question there are much better dogs, much better methods, etc etc etc

The dog in the video seems a willing, intelligent animal. He clearly enjoys this, but [ ] pulls back wanting his reward. Pain or discomfort may make him let go.
I couldn't agree more

I'm just talking about joe/jane 6 pack doing the best they can with whatever they've got in the private sector
 

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The answer is always selection IMO. A mediocre trainer can train a great dog to high standards. A great trainer can train a mediocre dog to mediocre standards.

You can work and build and plan and try to make a dog into something.

Or you can pick the right dog and teach it what not to fight.

I'm talking about working dogs and not sport dogs here.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Where is that?
This is in Europe I believe. I chose this dog because I wanted one with little connection to anyone here, so that certain bias didn’t change what people said or thought. It’s supposed to serve as a randomly chosen dog, which it is for the most part.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I only watched the first minute or so but they always cut the clip before he's outed.
It may be more of a concern if the dog was older and being sold as a more finished product. Most of the dogs I see trained aren’t outer off the sleeve until later in training. It could become an ongoing issue though depending on the dog.
 

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What do you guys think of this dog? No real reason, just conversation.
Back to the video.

I like this dog. Good nerves. He's not seen a lot of pressure so it's still a game, which is fine. Missing tail makes me think he's a spinner which can be a problem. Overall, he's a nice looking prospect for work.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I keep watching videos of these trained dogs. I'm not knocking the dog or the trainer, I am only commenting on a video. In the first clip I see a guy dressed like a weirdo walking toward and standing passively in front of a dog that is going bonkers. Why? If that was a threat you could never take that dog through downtown Toronto! Lol.
I will never understand that send out for protection, but clearly it's a thing.
I see the dog pulling back a lot but I don't see him pushing in, so really he just wants the sleeve/reward.
I wouldn’t put to much stock in how the guy is dressed here. He’s wearing an apron which some people use as protection when they are working on a sleeve. I’m sure the dog knows who this decoy is and what he’s here to do. The aggression here is more of a prey/play type than a dog looking to seriously hurt the decoy. I can’t say how social or sharp this dog is with people from this video. The pulling could be more of a training thing. I believe this dog was started at least in the same way a sport prospect would. There’s different situations I could see the need for sending a protection dog. If I was in a situation where someone had a gun and I thought an attack was imminent, I would send the dog if it was an option. If I came home and someone had broken in, I could see sending the dog. This dog is supposed to be a dual purpose working dog, so being sent could definitely be a part of the job. I don’t think pushing or pulling tells you all that much about a dog wanting to stay in the fight. I think you have to observe the whole picture.
 

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I wouldn’t put to much stock in how the guy is dressed here. He’s wearing an apron which some people use as protection when they are working on a sleeve. I’m sure the dog knows who this decoy is and what he’s here to do. The aggression here is more of a prey/play type than a dog looking to seriously hurt the decoy. I can’t say how social or sharp this dog is with people from this video. The pulling could be more of a training thing. I believe this dog was started at least in the same way a sport prospect would. There’s different situations I could see the need for sending a protection dog. If I was in a situation where someone had a gun and I thought an attack was imminent, I would send the dog if it was an option. If I came home and someone had broken in, I could see sending the dog. This dog is supposed to be a dual purpose working dog, so being sent could definitely be a part of the job. I don’t think pushing or pulling tells you all that much about a dog wanting to stay in the fight. I think you have to observe the whole picture.
Most dogs pull unless trained otherwise when working in prey. Things can change when the fight gets more real.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Back to the video.

I like this dog. Good nerves. He's not seen a lot of pressure so it's still a game, which is fine. Missing tail makes me think he's a spinner which can be a problem. Overall, he's a nice looking prospect for work.
I feel the same. The dog looks to be environmentally good, but the decoy doesn’t offer a lot of fight or pressure from what I see. I think he shows good drive.
 
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