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Discussion Starter #1
I am thinking about acquiring this girl for AKC show. She is 4 months in the pic. She is now 7 months. I am waiting on an updated stack photo. Her head is blocked up but remained feminine and she has filled out more. So, what do you think of her in this pic?
Thanks!

 

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Love her color, but her pasterns look TERRIBLE.
 

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I'd rather see her 7mth old stack picture before making an opinion :)))
 

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I agree-- amazing pigment, beautiful bone, too.. but those pasterns are a big drawback.
 

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The eas look longer, soft. I'd want them up by 4 mos, if I were going to show.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'm working on getting it from the breeder. But couldn't her pasterns be worked on with strengthening and some Ester C or the like? Her ears are fully up at this point.
 

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In addition to the horrible pasterns, she also looks weakly ligamented in the rear. I imagine she'd gait very sloppily. Also, her rear looks a lot more angulated than her front so I would be concerned about balance in gaiting. Her head looks VERY nice. I see way too many collie-fine heads in the AKC showlines so her head is a welcome breath of fresh air.

Can you post a photo of the pup at 7 months or maybe of the parents?
 

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Quote:But couldn't her pasterns be worked on with strengthening and some Ester C or the like?
If the pasterns needed that much help, I certainly would not purchase for showing/potential breeding. Pasterns are a very important part of the movement (not just trotting) assembly and there is no room in a working breed for weak pasterns. If she's still like that at 7 months, I personally would pass.
 

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Id' say strengthing and supplementing for stronger pasterns would be a crap shoot, I'd prefer to start out with strong pasterns vs "hoping" I could fix the problem..but again, I'd like to see a pic of what she looks like stacked now at 7mths .:))
 

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nice pedigree:))

why are they looking to place her? at 7 mths there must be something that, they, the breeder has decided is not for them?

Certainly not saying she isn't 'show' material, again, I'll wait on your 7mth old stack pic :)))
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The breeder had placed her with a friend to retain co-breeding rights. But, the friend's health has now deteriorated and the breeder took her back. The breeder has 3 other up and coming bitches and wants to place this one, as she still has some of the bloodline.
And yes, I really like the pedigree :)
I'm still waiting on the pic :)

Her breeder says, "She is nicely structured, with a good side-gait." like her mother, who took BIF 2 years ago.
 

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My personal opinion, I'd look for a more moderate dog. The sire and dam seem to be very weak in the rear. Are your goals all-breed or specialty? I'm no expert but it looks like these lines are more geared to the specialty shows. The pup also seems to tend toward the dam; straighter shoulder and a heavily angulated rear. I can't imagine that looks good at any gait but again I'm not an American showline person and certainly not a fan of any of the specialty lines.

Regardless, if this bitch still has weak pasterns and still shows a weakly ligamented rear, I would pass even if I was looking for an AKC show prospect. Weak legs simply look atrocious and uncomfortable to me.
 

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Besides the pasterns, I question wether the ears came up on their own or needed help. While not the "end of the world" if they needed help, it is NOT a desireable trait as far as I am concerned. (Especially in a potential breeding dog.)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I'm probably looking more for an AB, but one that would have a chance at holding her own at Specialty. I'd like to be able to go to the National as well as futurities possibly.
I just got another email from her breeder (who is fabulous to talk to) and she is waiting on her son to come over to get a new stacked photo. She said that her pasterns were as low as they got in that photo, but they are totally up now.
Again, I know you are waiting on the photo :)
 

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I friend of mine use to breed AM lines. If my memory serves me right she liked the Andretti stuff but not high on the Sundance Kid line.

DianaM, there is a large difference in AM line pups and German Pups. A lot of AM lines are loose as pups and tighten up.

I would also want to know if the ear stood up on their own? I have a thing about ears.

I would like Diane like to see a 7 month picture. There are some pups at 4 months old I wouldn't give ya 2 cents for but by 7 months looked much better.

Good points, appears to have a nice foot, seem large at 4 months but not super long toes I hope that didn't change. Dark Pigementation. Nice long bottom line to compliment her long top line. I would hope there was a large improvment in the pasterns.

Val
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks Val! Very helpful critique to go along with the other great help I have gotten so far!
Ok, you are gonna kill me, but this is what I have of her at 7 months until the breeder's son comes over, lol.



Re ears: They were standing on their own, but a little loose, so she taped them and they are perfect now.
She is within the breed standard as well.
 

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I don't really know about American lines, but she looks beautiful in the bottom picture. It looks like you are trying to add another to your pack, are you still planning on showing Kimber as well? I thought she was cute also, but I'm partial to sables, although I read that they aren't as popular in AKC rings.

Didn't you also recently adopt a rescue? Or are you just fostering him? It looks like you are going to have your hands full! Good luck on finding your new pup if this female doesn't work out, can't wait to see stack pics =).
 

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I am going to venture just from that picture that she has matured decently. Tough to say on the pasterns, but I see that she has gained some more tan on the legs than her 4 mounth old picture. Darn snow I can't see her feet and pasterns.

OK, good that the ear went up on their own. A little loose can be also helped with more chewing and some knox gelatin.

A close up face profile and close up face would be nice. Eye color is important to me, I hate light eyes and I would like to see what her stop looks like.

When my friend is feeling better I can check with her, but pretty sure Andretti line carries nice bone.
 
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