Joined
·
301 Posts
What do y'all think about pinning/alpha roll
81 - 100 of 121 Posts
Joined
·
34,500 Posts
yup...that's what I see too.
Joined
·
301 Posts
Oso does not look terrified in this clip but he is being playful manipulated and rolled onto his back.not all alpha rolls are bad and not all alpha rolls are good either.its how you use the method and use it in an effective manner without harmful intent behind,rather use it to be kind for the future relationship between you and your dog.And just wanted to add that I've had fosters and adopted dogs who people considered really tough, difficult to train (and even dangerous) dogs. In no cases was it ever necessary to alpha roll or physically dominate those dogs.
And when I used to do that stuff to my dogs it really did make me feel sick to see the fear in their eyes. Why do people want their dogs to fear them????? That's not true respect.
Now if someone were to say I use a crowbar to beat my dog into submission...........well then ya know its obvious what, hopefully, all people on here would say and do.Keep an open mind and try to see other peoples perspectives.
Joined
·
301 Posts
the dog that you deemed the alpha is not the large dog.just because he's larger does not mean he's pack boss here.I am the leader first and foremost or "alpha" as some say.Then the kids and husband.Then ranking second is Acero by far.She bosses OSO around night and day.Oso always lets her go first when it comes to food,going out you name it.Then keeno ranks at the bottom of the totem pole.
Joined
·
301 Posts
i thought you put the ignore button on my posts and bs???
Joined
·
301 Posts
I swear you guys tag team.
Joined
·
301 Posts
I swear you guys tag team.
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
I'm sorry but I just don't see this happening in the video you posted. Oso cleary rolled over on his own.
The reason I say Oso is "alpha" is because he is obviously controlling the play in the video you posted. He tolerates Acero biting at him but only engages when he wants to and moves away when he doesn't.
I also don't buy into the whole "alpha" theory and especially don't agree with including humans into a pack heirachy which is why I put "alpha" in quotes. In the videos you posted, I see that Oso is in control.
Joined
·
682 Posts
I wish I took a video of my pup and her sister playing yesterday. Next week I will take a video and post it. If anyone saw them that didn't know about dogs they would think they were killing each other. From what I saw, it was my pup that was on her back most of the time but she went there on her own. There was times that my dog would "steamroller" her sister and put her on her back but it was few and far between.
Joined
·
34,500 Posts
Here is my view, with limited experience...
I don't need to be "alpha" in the "pack". My dog knows I'm not a dog so I'm not going to fool her into thinking I'm one. She knows where her bread and butter comes from. I train her to relate good things coming her way to me. If I don't like a behavior, I train it out of her.
I don't need to roll and pin my dog. She's sensitive enough to my moods and tone. She's not one that likes submissive positions or to be restrained. I don't feel the need to be in "control" to the point of harming the relationship with her. And if I did roll her over, she would just think she was getting a belly rub.
Alpha rolling is outdated. There are new studies out that prove wolves don't alpha roll unless they plan on killing the opponent.
My take on the videos shown is the same as Jamie's and Ruth's. Those dogs in the video were playing. When my dogs are playing Jax will roll over onto to her back. I've never seen any of my dogs "alpha" roll to show their dominance.
And my last opinion, with limited experience...is that not one person will completely agree on small training points, let alone a large one like this.
I don't need to be "alpha" in the "pack". My dog knows I'm not a dog so I'm not going to fool her into thinking I'm one. She knows where her bread and butter comes from. I train her to relate good things coming her way to me. If I don't like a behavior, I train it out of her.
I don't need to roll and pin my dog. She's sensitive enough to my moods and tone. She's not one that likes submissive positions or to be restrained. I don't feel the need to be in "control" to the point of harming the relationship with her. And if I did roll her over, she would just think she was getting a belly rub.
Alpha rolling is outdated. There are new studies out that prove wolves don't alpha roll unless they plan on killing the opponent.
My take on the videos shown is the same as Jamie's and Ruth's. Those dogs in the video were playing. When my dogs are playing Jax will roll over onto to her back. I've never seen any of my dogs "alpha" roll to show their dominance.
And my last opinion, with limited experience...is that not one person will completely agree on small training points, let alone a large one like this.
Joined
·
301 Posts
I'd love to see a video of you and your dogs relationship.It would be intresting to see your approach to training and see the results.And yes they are playing in the video as it clearly states but Acero is trying to assert herself over oso even while playing.
Joined
·
301 Posts
Your views on things become very clear when you are willing to tell a complete stranger that they do not know their own dogs behaviours but obviously from a short clip you do.you are willing to "inform" me what is and is not about dogs you have never personally met.Even though I tried to tell you that I know who is the dominant dog in the heirarchy here.As i said before you reveal alot about yourself in the post.I also know that Oso submits to her willingly without fuss(the reason he rolls so easily) and lets her climb on top of him.If he was the true dominant dog he would never let another dog get on top even in play.As I quoted to jax08,you guys should post videos of your own methods and dogs in action.It would be intresting to see other peoples methods at work and how they apply them.
Joined
·
5,633 Posts
(quote adjusted for formatting but not content)
For the record, I did not state that you do not know your own dogs behavior nor did I attempt to "inform" you of what your dogs are or are no.
I did however give my opinion on what I see about the behavior exhibited in the video that you posted of two dogs playing. I still maintain that I see no dominating, submitting or alpha rolling going on in those videos. I do see normal dog play in which one dog is clearly the one in control of the play.
I did make my views on the behavior in that video very clear and revealed my thoughts on the behavior exhibit. Nothing else can be inferred other than what I have obviously stated.
Joined
·
34,500 Posts
You mean the positive approach where she WANTS to work? You mean the positive approach where she doesn't shut down from stress because I don't feel the need to dominate her? You mean the positive approach taught to me by someone whose titled dogs in obedience, the vice president of the local Schutzhund club and who has a high level degree in animal behavior? That approach? You've never seen anyone train their dogs without rolling them?
You apparently have way more time on your hands than I do. So feel free to post a video showing how YOU train.
Baloney. Play between dogs in the same home who are part of the same pack and who get along well don't tend to have rigid rules like that. In our house it's very clear that Halo rules the roost - she's got Keefer, who is 3 years older and 20 pounds heavier, wrapped around her fuzzy little paw. But he humps her, she rolls onto her back in play, and not only does she allow him to stand over her she actually puts herself there by walking underneath him and sitting down, and diving under his belly to bite at his legs. But she's still the boss.
Here are my dogs playing:
Great article: http://www.4pawsu.com/alpharoll.pdf
81 - 100 of 121 Posts
