[Heagler870]

I have heard some people hate it and some people love it, or at least think it's a natural training method. I have never done this physically to my dogs but my pup Riley will submissivly roll on his back when I give him the "You're in trouble look." I used to get on the floor and play with him and that's when he started doing it. It would be when I would love on him and put my face around his neck. That's when he would automatically do it. Now he just does it if I give him a certain look, or when I give him a good ole belly rub! What is your opinion of people who purposfully incorporate "Pinning" or the "Alpha roll" for training?

 

[onyx'girl]

This thread is the same as your question. It was a fun read!
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-behavior/141303-alpharoll-mistake.html

 

[doggiedad]

i've never alpha rolled a dog. my dog will jump
on the bed with us and roll on back but that means
rub him.

 

[Heagler870]

Oh, sorry!! I guess I should start searching before I post. I forum on another site and it's NO WHERE as big as this one. I forget. Sorry.

 

[Heagler870]

Oh, and thank you!

 

[onyx'girl]

Don't be sorry, I just remembered that thread, and how you play with your pup...alpha rolls, zerbits and rasberries~what more could a pup want!!

 

[selzer]

You might consider toning your reproaches to your pup down a bit. If the dog is giving you the "I submit, please don't kill me" language, it could be you have a very soft/submissive dog.

I find that soft dogs need very little corrections, and stiff corrections can move you backwards instead of forwards.

Just thinking out loud here.

Soft dogs can be the most excellent pets because generally they want to please you and when they know what they should not do, they NEVER do it. But they require someone willing to encourage and build their confidence moreso than discourage behaviors.

 

[fgshepherd]

Wow, that was a lot of information in that post. I've never rolled my dog over. He is getting closer and closer to rolling over on his back for me to pet his belly, but it is his doing, not mine. I'm not brave enought to try to force him! Plus, when it's his idea, it seems like he's doing it out of respect for me instead of fear of me.

 

[JKlatsky]

Generally Alpha Rolling is stupid. First, because usually people use alpha rolling to get their dog/puppy to "submit" to their "dominance". I think this is taking advantage of a dog that is already willing to submit without needing to be physically forced to it. So basically alpha rolling is just bullying.

I mean really. Go ahead and try to alpha roll a 90lb male that really is bent on showing you who's boss. Let me know how your face fares in that encounter.

If you actually have a dog that wants to dominate you that you need to show superiority over...well then you probably need to be a very experienced handler or you need some serious professional training. Most dogs really don't want to challenge your authority to that level.

ETA- I do flip my dogs over on their back for belly rubs and for general handling purposes. I like to be able to mess with their belly for different reasons such as medical, etc. However, they are never struggling against it, it's always a calm pleasant thing that they allow because they trust me NOT to make them uncomfortable.

 

[Hunther's Dad]

My signature says it all.

 

[just another truck]

I have alway heard of an Alpha roll, not sure the when or where you are supposed to use it.

I have always been able to roll my pups over, with out issue, hold them down, and give them Love with out any fight.. I have wrestled them down playfully. So, I dont know.

 

[Kelly's Buddy]

Generally Alpha Rolling is stupid. First, because usually people use alpha rolling to get their dog/puppy to "submit" to their "dominance". I think this is taking advantage of a dog that is already willing to submit without needing to be physically forced to it. So basically alpha rolling is just bullying.

I mean really. Go ahead and try to alpha roll a 90lb male that really is bent on showing you who's boss. Let me know how your face fares in that encounter.

If you actually have a dog that wants to dominate you that you need to show superiority over...well then you probably need to be a very experienced handler or you need some serious professional training. Most dogs really don't want to challenge your authority to that level.

ETA- I do flip my dogs over on their back for belly rubs and for general handling purposes. I like to be able to mess with their belly for different reasons such as medical, etc. However, they are never struggling against it, it's always a calm pleasant thing that they allow because they trust me NOT to make them uncomfortable.

:thumbup:

 

[Whiteshepherds]

He is getting closer and closer to rolling over on his back for me to pet his belly, but it is his doing, not mine. I'm not brave enought to try to force him! Plus, when it's his idea, it seems like he's doing it out of respect for me instead of fear of me.

There ya go! He's comfortable putting himself in a submissive position with you, so I'd say you're doing a good job building trust.

I think alpha rolls are ridiculous btw...unless you're a wolf.

 

[London's Mom]

I would never alpha-roll my dogs. If I need them to "behave" in public or when I have company, I will use the Down-Stay command. They both feel comfortable with that command and it seems to calm them when they are in a stressful situation.

Although, with that said, both of my dogs will "offer" me their bellies for a good rub down!

 

[Konotashi]

Whoever thought of this as a training method is a ding-dong. If you look at wolf behavior in the wild, the dog that is being submissive is not ever being forced. It is always on its own accord. Many people who do this method (that I've seen) force their dog on its back. In my opinion, this just makes for a very unconfident dog.

Ozzy rolls on his back for me and I rub my face in his fluff and give him tummy rubs.

 

[codmaster]

I would suggest that if you are going to "alpha roll" a GSD then either he/she should be very young and small OR you had better be very physically strong enough and know what you are doing as it could get very tense very quickly depending on the dog and his/her personality and your relationship with them.

on the other hand, i have had to get physical with my dogs on a couple of occasions (back when I was younger and more brave (foolish). Once when my then 10/11 mo male GSD (from one of the toughest male GSD German imports decided that he didn't want to give up his real bone that I had given him and showed his teeth and made a really nasty growl when I reached for it. Without thinking of the consequences, I grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and gave him a very low "NO" and a shake. He accepted it and never again decided that I could not take something out of his mouth. Second time was when I threw a toy for my two female GSD's to chase and the younger one got it first and the older decided that she wanted it and jumped on the younger one and it was on! I grabbed both by the scruff of their respective necks and told them to stop it and by some miracle I was unscathed - could have gotten bit by both of them I realized later but it turned out ok. I was lucky!

But I often wonder what would have happened if i had backed off from my young male GSD when he growled??

 

[ken k]

Alpha roll is old technology, like posted above, a "down stay" will accomplish the same thing, when my 3 start acting up they hear a firm down stay and they know their in trouble

 

[Konotashi]

I think that if you try to force a large dog down like that, someone could get hurt. The only way I could think of getting a big dog down that doesn't want to go down is to knock its legs out from under it, and that would make it land on its side, and that could potentially hurt it. Or you could get hurt for obvious reasons.

 

[Denali Girl]

I guess I'm not going to knock it cause I don't know enough about it. I guess wolves do this in the wild or something? That's cool and I guess it would work if I were raising a wolf but I have a GSD so I'll stick to what I know.

 

[Konotashi]

I guess I'm not going to knock it cause I don't know enough about it. I guess wolves do this in the wild or something? That's cool and I guess it would work if I were raising a wolf but I have a GSD so I'll stick to what I know.

But watch their behavior. You will never see a wolf FORCE another on its back. The submissive one always does so on its own.