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Discussion Starter #1
There is a thread about someone who returned a fear aggressive dog to her breeder. The breeder informed her the dog was to be euthanised for a different health issue.

The thread made me realize that a lot of returned pups or dogs are probably euthanized.

Why would a breeder want to deal with the health or temperament issues the animal was returned for. Especially temperament issue.

I doubt many breeders would want to keep and work with a genetically fearful dog. They wouldn't want an extra dog and if it had been returned once they surely wouldn't want to pass it along.

I can't even say if it's right or wrong but I'll bet it happens a lot more than most would care to guess.

People fall in love with their dogs so quickly that some dogs that probably should be returned are not.

Just wonder how these dogs are dealt with.
 

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When i got Dia, i was told that if i ever could not keep her she would be required by contract to go back to melinda. knowing the person melinda is, i know she would keep her until she could be rehomed... but i would never give up my baby! i would rather live in a car than lose her.
 

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I know quite a few breeders (different breeds) who have taken dogs back for whatever reason, and honestly not one of them put the dogs down, they either kept them or placed them .

Hopefully they do whats in the best interest of the dog .
 

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Halo's breeder has taken back a couple of dogs, and she keeps them as long as necessary until she finds the right home for them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I think it would be difficult for a breeder to find someone who wants a dog that was returned because of genetically based fearfulness or severe hip dysplasia for example.

It's a lot different if someone is returning an otherwise o.k. dog because of some situation in their own life.

People seek out reputable breeders and pay more to try to avoid those issues.
 

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True, but sometimes "temperament issues" really aren't, it's just that the person wasn't quite as prepared as they (or the breeder) thought they were for a GSD in general, or for that particular dog.
 

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From what I've seen, dogs with severe health issues like hip/elbow/DM/deforming overbites/heart murmurs and so on are put down.
1: who wants to take on a dog with a crippling disease when there are plenty of very healthy dogs with no homes?
2: it's unethical to place this burden on someone else. As a breeder, you owe it to give this animal a proper end. You brought him into this world, you should help him exit in a dignified manner.

Temperament/nerve issues are sometimes trained and rehomed if the issues are fixable. We had a pup with severe fear issues, one of the guys took the pup for a month, it came back like a new dog. It wasn't the pup, it was his old owner. Now this pup has a great home with a family that truly fits him.

Severe temperament issues are put down. Sometimes the breeders keep them. Older dogs (returned due to unforeseen circumstances but are good dogs) that are returned are sometimes rehomed or live out their lives with the breeder.
 

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I know my breeder took back a pup from Amaretto's litter, and was/is keeping her until a good home can be found.

My contract also states if for any reason I don't want Puppy anymore, she is to go directly back to the breeder. I've been given this offer for temperament, fit, and health.

I think reputable breeders would have no issues taking back one of their dogs and housing it until a new home can be found or the issue can be properly addressed. Most breeders have housing set up so that they can house multiple dogs, and one more usually isn't going to be a deal breaker.

But I agree with putting down returned dogs for severe temperament and health. I think good breeders have the responsibility not to pass the problem onto someone else and controlling the outcome of the situation.
 

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My dog Aiden was returned to the breeder at 4 months old because of "temperament issues." Really, the owner was just in over her head with a GSD and neglected him, resulting in his issues. I then adopted him through the breeder at 5 months and wouldn't ever consider giving him up! After lots of hard work and socialization, he is truly an amazing dog.

On the other hand, a woman in my Schutzhund club had a puppy that showed serious agression from 12 weeks old. He had no triggers and would attack anyone at any time for any reason. The same behaviors were also seen in two of his littermates. After months and months of discussing with the options, the owner and breeder both decided it would be in the pup's best interest to be humanely euthanized. He was too unstable and unpredictable to be placed with anyone where he wouldn't be capable of seriously hurting someone..

Sometimes you really don't have any other options...
 

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I have a question with this. Say if for some reason I couldn't keep my dog (hypothetical) and I have a contract that says breeder gets first right of refusal. But when I email her pics and updates and get no reply back, she took down her fb site and never answered my calls or emails do I still have to give her back? I feel like I could do a better job at finding my girl a home than her byb because she didn't care where she went but we signed a contract. She hasn't held up her end and refuses to reply back to me especially since I mentioned I'm getting her hips and elbows done Which was also In The contract she has to either pay half of the sale price back to
Me or I get another pup, but I think she has quit breeding. If she quits breeding does that mean she quit her breeder duties to those that have dogs from her?
 

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I took a 2 year old dog that had washed out of S&R and been returned to my breeder "supposedly for chasing small animals". She was a sweetheart with me but whenever my husband came near she turned into a snarling, lunging scary creature. I loved her already but I was in over my head. Tried 2 week shutdown with only husband feeding her, tried taking her to a trainer who a said all she needed was her puppy classes w positive reinforcement (this was a 2 year old dog), and who also said I should not have crated her. Took to the vet who said she was fine medically. Finally had to admit I was in over my head and drove her 600+ miles back to the breeder. Breeder assures me she will live out her life with breeder. As we have been friends for years I feel confident in that or I wouldn't have taken her back.
 

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I have a question with this. Say if for some reason I couldn't keep my dog (hypothetical) and I have a contract that says breeder gets first right of refusal. But when I email her pics and updates and get no reply back, she took down her fb site and never answered my calls or emails do I still have to give her back? I feel like I could do a better job at finding my girl a home than her byb because she didn't care where she went but we signed a contract. She hasn't held up her end and refuses to reply back to me especially since I mentioned I'm getting her hips and elbows done Which was also In The contract she has to either pay half of the sale price back to
Me or I get another pup, but I think she has quit breeding. If she quits breeding does that mean she quit her breeder duties to those that have dogs from her?
I think sometimes a breeders life changes play into a contract. Especially one that isn't an established responsible kennel.
Onyx's breeder had me sign a first rights but I know that if I ever re-homed Onyx(which I won't) the breeder would not be the one doing it. She no longer breeds GSD's either.
I'd let her know(IF I could even find her!) that the dog was being re-homed but not expect her to help/and I'd never give Onyx back to her for any reason whatsoever.
 

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I know a couple good breeders personally who have had dogs returned for ZYX reason. One I know very well has an older female that was just returned, was dog aggressive with the new live in boyfriends dog. no other real issues. Owner didn't want to work through it, just wanted to get rid of her. Breeder just had her spayed, and she's up for adoption to an approved home.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I guess it just became clear to me that in most contracts there are no provisions spelled out for what happens to a returned dog.

I wonder if buyers would be as eager to sign contracts if they knew that their dog could be PTS when returned. It would be nice if that area of contracts were spelled out in bold.

I just never thought about that aspect before.

If you return a dog and the contract is fulfilled with the buyer recieving another pup. Your say on the returned dog is over. The breeder can do whatever they want with the dog.
 

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I've thought of that often because I know that many commercial kennels would PTS a returned pup. They have so many pumping out, wasting time on vetting a health issue or working thru a temperament problem would be a detriment to their program and why bother, when they have several litters on the ground to profit from.
I heard that one commercial kennel near my area will send unsold(unwanted) pups to a vet to be euth'd but not sure if that was true, though a rescue stepped in at the vets to home the pups instead of them being PTS(this was a few years ago, which brought my attention to that kennel)
 

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The breeders I am very familiar with will try to rehome (or even resell) the dog if the situation warrants. In the case of a potentially dangerous dog or debilitating health issue, humane euthanasia is the kindest solution. Euthanasia is very hard on all involved. The breeders I deal with have their hearts and souls in their breeding program and each puppy is huge responsibility, physically and morally. When I was breeding Beaucerons, I never required the pup be returned to me in order to get a replacement (if the family loved the dog and wanted to continue with the dog as a member of their family then that was a good solution, assuming it was a health thing and not a behavior issue), although I would always take the dog back if they couldn't keep it. My only requirement was that I get the papers back and proof of neutering at that point.
I also did Beauceron rescue for a while and would take in dogs that were discovered at local shelters (pretty rare obviously) and I would treat the dog as I would want one of mine treated if a fellow breeder happened to get the dog.
I took in a few over the years that we ended up PTS since they were a danger and while they were fine in our care, the thought of them getting loose and encountering a stranger scared me to death.
 

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I have a question with this. Say if for some reason I couldn't keep my dog (hypothetical) and I have a contract that says breeder gets first right of refusal. But when I email her pics and updates and get no reply back, she took down her fb site and never answered my calls or emails do I still have to give her back?
Many people misinterpret first right of refusal. It is exactly what it says. If you have to rehome or sell your dog, you have to offer the dog to the breeder first, but that doesn't mean just give the dog back. You can name your price/conditions. If the breeder doesn't respond, then you can do whatever you want because it's your dog. Unless your contract spells out something more specific, this is all first right of refusal means. It does not obligate the breeder to buy the dog or take it back nor does it obligate you to give the dog back for free.
 

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I think it depends on the severity of the problem. I really like the dogs I produce and I feel responsible for a faulty placement or problem with the dog. Passing that problem on to someone else is really an iffy thing and I cannot foresee doing that. Though some dogs are returned, not for any issues, and I can see finding them a new home. Often times breeders have adults available, some may be returns, others drop out of their program, and some may be retired.

The dog that comes back becomes my dog, and I do with it exactly what I would do with any of my other dogs. I take them to training. I work with them. I vet them as I vet my other dogs.

If any of my dogs had a temperament issue so severe that I could not manage the dog safely, I would have to make a trip to the vet. So far I never have with any that I whelped, and I am hoping I never will have to, but it is what I would do with any of my dogs. For example, if I had a dog with rage syndrome that had unpredictable vicious episodes, I would do what I could with medication if that was possible, and if that did not work, I would put the dog down.

I have a couple of returns. They are not hard for me to handle. They were not in my plans but I cannot turn my back on them. And euthanizing a dog that is not in severe pain, or is totally unmanageable, is not an option if you care at all. So, breeders sometimes have more dogs than is good for them to have. And they make it work.

I think what the breeder with the BBs is doing is disgusting.
 

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I got Duke as a "returned to breeder" Dog at 2years old.

He had aggression issues with the smaller dogs. He was picked on through his whole puppyhood and eventually (2 years old) showed them he was bigger. The owner brought him back to the breeder after their homeowners association told them to get rid of him or move.

I was contacted by someone who knew the breeder and about Duke's story (they knew I was looking for an male around that age). I got Duke for no cost, just a promise to give him a great forever home. During the time we've had him, he's been through a lot of training, socialization, and strict rules here at home..... We have controlled his DA and he's now able to "tolerate" almost any dog, and actually enjoys playing with my friends dogs. He's really turned around with the proper handling and training. All he needed was a home that understood him and his breed... also, his mental/physical stimulation needs. He's an AMAZING dog who was definitely misunderstood.

With all that said (sorry for going off on a tangent), I would say if the breeder feels they can be placed safely in a home and with the right training, do well.. I am sure most breeders will re-home those dogs to where they think is appropriate, or keep them and work with them.
 
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