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Discussion Starter #1
Okay this is really weird and I have no idea why it happened or what could even possibly cause it to happen but here we go.

Berrin ended up having to be boarded at the vet because we had to go to a memorial that would take us away from home for more than a day. So he ended up going to the vet on Friday since we couldn't get back before noon on Saturday he stayed till Monday morning. We got him Monday afternoon and he was on stuff to keep him calm from the vet. Well we had been told he would only take them when he first got there and to take a bath on Monday if they needed to. Well I told them not to give them to him if it was just to give him a bath we would do it.

Well when I called Monday at around 10 they had already drugged the dog to give him the bath I was pissed off. No one else seemed to really care in the family but that just bends me the wrong way. Well he finally started acting normal again the other day but his lips are really big now. He slobbers now when he never did before. He gets food caught in the back of his lips he never did before. He gets slobber all over the place now. After he eats I need to pick food out of his lips now like what in the world?!?!?!

Is this because of the stuff they gave him to stay calm because of a muzzle or what? They gave him 10 of these 20 pills in 4 days when I told them only to do it one time!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not very happy but can someone shed any light on to why his lips would have gotten bigger in 4 days. He was not with any other dogs he had a run of his own and everything..
 

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WOW. I would be upset as well. The swelling puzzles me- an allergy to the meds? Been a bit long for that I would think. Injury of some sort maybe? Like you said, muzzle maybe?
I would be asking some serious questions. And not be in a hurry to bring my dog back there.
 

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Sounds like he may have had an allergic reaction to something. I would demand this vet look at it for you and tell you what is going on.

Cherri
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Acepromazine 10 pills in the span of Friday around noon probably to Monday morning before I called at like 10. He's 1 year old and weighed 98 pounds when he was weighed during that time.
 

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That seems to be a lot. I used to give Echo 1/2 an Ace before his obedience class (very long story) and it put him in LA LA LAND. I forget how much he weighed, he was an adult and I guess he was probably between 85 and 90 lbs.
 

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Ten pills? What dosage (how many mg?) Ace is a strong tranquilizer. I know my vet is hesitant to use it, and the internist I've consulted with on occassions uses it only when absolutely necessary. She says that most vets don't understand that it's more powerful than they give it credit for.

It depresses the central nervous system. The usual oral dose is 0.5 to 1.5 mg per pound of dog. Tablets are available in 5 mg, 10 mg and 25 mg tablets.

I'd start out by figuring out if the dosage they gave him was correct. I also don't quite understand why they kept him sedated the entire time you were gone, unless he's very high-strung or anxious normally. We sedate animals to make THEM more comfortable, not to make our lives (in this case, the clinic's life) easier. I would start demanding some answers.

I was just poking around the internet, and apparently one of the side effects of Ace is that it will bring out seizures in dogs prone to them. Is it possible that what Stormy is experiencing is mild seizures now?

Is it possible they flea-dipped him when they gave him his bath? I'm not sure what this vet is alluding to (he doesn't say WHY), but he says this:

Acepromazine

Acepromazine is considered to be very safe. The average toxic dose is significantly higher than the recommended dosage (at least 20 times the dose). Despite this, acepromazine does have some significant effects that must be considered. It can cause hypotension (lowering of blood pressure). This effect may be exaggerated in Boxers and there have been anecdotal reports of death of Boxers after the use of acepromazine. In addition, acepromazine seems to make it easier for dogs with seizure disorders to have a seizure. This medication should not be used near the time of dipping or treatment with organophosphates for flea control.

Acepromazine is considered to a very safe sedative from the aspect of dosing. It has a wide margin of safety in most dogs. Recently there have been some reports of dogs with unusual sensitivity to this medication that leads to death even with smaller than normal dosages. I have used this medication for my entire career (18 years) without seeing this problem so I believe it to be rare.

Mike Richards, DVM

http://www.vetinfo4dogs.com/deffect.html#Acepromazine
 

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That seems like an enormous amount of acepromazine. When we would board our super-anxious dog, she was dosed with 2 25mg tablets a day, and the absolute maximum was 3 tablets per day...and our vet was very leary of even giving her that much. And we're talking a self-mutilating seperation anxiety dog that had to be pretty heavily sedated for her own safety. She was 80lbs. And we never had a problem with swelling or slobber, so I would guess that's not a normal result of the medication.

And not for nothing, has Berrin shown bad reactions to being at the vet before to warrant drugging him? I only ask because Ace is a sedative. Our vet would never proscribe it without Xanax or an anxiety med to accompany it to treat nervous behavior. Her feeling was that the Ace on it's own does nothing beyond make the dog unable to act and doesn't actually help the dog be more comfortable or less panicked.
 

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I would take him to another vet ASAP (tomorrow-as long as nothing changes).

I'd ask them to check his mouth carefully and tell the symptoms.

I would hold off telling/showing the invoice until after they had given him a good exam, so as not to lead them in a direction that might-somehow-be a coincidence between the boarding and these issues.

Wow. Poor Berrin. I'm sorry that happened.
 

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I've heard bad things about ace, personally I'd avoid it in the future.

I just looked it up and it looks like the side effects are mainly related to the cardiovascular system. I've heard it can actually do the opposite of sedation and cause dogs to flip out worse, so if that happened they may have (stupidly) kept giving him more to try to get it to take effect. Also, I've seen dogs when they are muzzled and freaking out, a lot of times they slam their heads and bodies around in a panic so I would not be surprised if maybe he banged his head into something, maybe even threw his jaw out of whack?

If it were me, I would call up and insist on a complimentary exam/treatment and an explanation as to why he was given so much medicine against your orders. Unless it was truly because he was a danger to himself and/or their staff, they should not have done that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah it says the quantity was 20 and only 10 were left when we got them today they are 25 mg. Berrin seems fine otherwise he seemed to be the best he has been since he came home today. He hadn't been eating as much but today he went back to his normal two meals. He played and didn't mope/rest as much as he had been. We even made comment that he wasn't acting like himself in his behavior. Today he was much more like himself.

The thing that I don't understand is why keep giving him the meds? They said they would give him some when he first got there to get him to calm down. But how did we go from that to 8 more pills. Why didn't they call us and have us pick him up on Saturday if he was being that much of a pain for them. He isn't to horrible when he's at the vet he will sit there and bark a little and prefers to be with me but other than that he has never done anything bad there. It wasn't the first time he spent a night there either.

This entire thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think I will ever be leaving my dog in the hands of someone else ever again. How long would it take for that much meds to get out of him? Is it out of the realm that it could have taken this long?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Two other things of thought.. Could he have allergies the pollen has been really bad this week to the point it's affecting me and I only get my allergies at the end of summer and toward fall with ragweed. Another thing I have noticed since we got him he likes to case things. Well I noticed when spring started up he had the interest in casing carpenter bees. He could have possible gotten a hold of a bee of some sort when he was outside playing since he came home.
 

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Who knows what's causing the problem but you really need to take him to the vet. If your vet prescribed that much Ace then you need to have a discussion with her/him. I'm glad he's ok but this could have had a really bad outcome for Berrin! Why did the vet prescribe it in the first place?
 

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Originally Posted By: Stormy
The thing that I don't understand is why keep giving him the meds? They said they would give him some when he first got there to get him to calm down. But how did we go from that to 8 more pills. Why didn't they call us and have us pick him up on Saturday if he was being that much of a pain for them. He isn't to horrible when he's at the vet he will sit there and bark a little and prefers to be with me but other than that he has never done anything bad there. It wasn't the first time he spent a night there either.

This entire thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I don't think I will ever be leaving my dog in the hands of someone else ever again. How long would it take for that much meds to get out of him? Is it out of the realm that it could have taken this long?
Probably just really incredible incompetence. The Rx was written in his chart and they just kept giving it. No one ever questioned it.

My experience is that food, medicine, etc can take up to a week to be fully out of my dog's (or even a human) system completely. But that after about 4 days, the effects are pretty slight.

I know this has been traumatic for you. I'd be furious.
. But there will likely be times when you HAVE to leave Stormy with someone. And you can't let having a dog tie you down entirely. Honestly, I'd find another vet. Meet with several while Stormy is healthy. See how they interact with him. Does the vet and his staff seem a little hesitant around a GSD? If so, move on. When you find one that you like, someone that speaks to you with respect, and treats your dog with caring, THEN talk to the vet about what happened this weekend. If they brush it off as "a side effect," move on. There's the right vet out there for you.

And there's the right boarding kennel and/or pet sitter out there for you. Interview them in the same way. I truly believe that it's healthy for our dogs to be able to spend a few days away from us. While I love my dogs and in general, they go everywhere with me, I like to know that they are independent enough to spend time on their own, either because we've chosen to go somewhere without them (maybe a vacation to Hawaii, England or Australia, where there are strict quarantines) or because there's an emergency and they HAVE to be boarded for a while.

So, once you and Stormy have had a chance to fully recuperate from this, take the time (and yes, spend the $$) to find a vet you can trust. Find a kennel or sitter you can trust. (Some kennels have 24/7 video feed from your dog's suite so you can see him online anytime you want, even!).

Good luck to you both! You've been through a lot!
 
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