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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Our girl is now 6 months old. We decided we would buy a male to keep her company and possibly breed.
We are in central Tennessee and there are not that many breeders near us. One that we found about 50 miles away has 2 males left who were born 5/1/2019. I attach the Kennel data from the AKC site. The Dam is Yoschi Von Lotta and the sire is Aloisus Van Noort.

Our girls dam was Xerra Z Barabak LIPIN and the sire was Max Team Von Der Familien Schafer. She was born 1/4/2019

Can someone knowledgeable tell us if the male puppy looks like he would be a good stud to breed with our girl?

Can you advise us on what we should be careful about? Any advice would be appreciated.
 

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You can’t really tell by just looks which one will be the best to breed, especially if they’re just babies themselves.
And also with your female being just a baby at 6 months, id highly suggest for your sakes wait a bit longer if you want another puppy. You should be your pups only company right now! ??
Now I’m not fully with your breeding practices, not at all but if you really want to breed your girl I suggest you get her completely health checked ( you can fully do it around 2 years old when she’s fully developed ) to ensure the pups will be healthy and live good disease free lives. Even pups from breeders can have issues that aren’t seen on the outside.
If she passes her health tests then I’d suggest actually finding a proven stud maybe instead if you can. I’m unsure how that all works because I’m no breeder, but Thatd be much better than risking it with two pups.. You wouldn’t want to get a 2nd puppy to plan on breeding that may be a total crap shoot! That wouldn’t be good ? for you or the puppies. But I will say, your female would have to be in tip top breeding condition, and if working line probably show ability to work and of course the clean bill of health.
I’m not even going to look at the pups because of this.. but use your best judgement for what’s right for the breed! If you don’t want to deal with the stud stuff I can’t help that, but I do suggest you look for an older dog who is already health tested and proven to the slightest if you’re dead set on breeding your female. It’ll be much better
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You can’t really tell by just looks which one will be the best to breed, especially if they’re just babies themselves.
And also with your female being just a baby at 6 months, id highly suggest for your sakes wait a bit longer if you want another puppy. You should be your pups only company right now! ??
Now I’m not fully with your breeding practices, not at all but if you really want to breed your girl I suggest you get her completely health checked ( you can fully do it around 2 years old when she’s fully developed ) to ensure the pups will be healthy and live good disease free lives. Even pups from breeders can have issues that aren’t seen on the outside.
If she passes her health tests then I’d suggest actually finding a proven stud maybe instead if you can. I’m unsure how that all works because I’m no breeder, but Thatd be much better than risking it with two pups.. You wouldn’t want to get a 2nd puppy to plan on breeding that may be a total crap shoot! That wouldn’t be good ? for you or the puppies. But I will say, your female would have to be in tip top breeding condition, and if working line probably show ability to work and of course the clean bill of health.
I’m not even going to look at the pups because of this.. but use your best judgement for what’s right for the breed! If you don’t want to deal with the stud stuff I can’t help that, but I do suggest you look for an older dog who is already health tested and proven to the slightest if you’re dead set on breeding your female. It’ll be much better
agreed that we won't breed our girl until age 2 1/2 or 3 years, if we do breed her at all.
 

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Here's my opinion for what it's worth.

First, I would never buy a puppy with the intention of breeding him to a female puppy I had. You have to make sure the temperaments and drives match. Your girl is half czech/half showline. You are buying a showline male. You have to train both. You have to do health testing on both. Vet both. Feed both.

Do these puppies have full registration? The sire is pink papered. Does he have his "AKC papers yet? Does your female have full registration? Or limited?

What if your girl, or perspective male puppy, has bad hips? Can't breed.
What if one of them has a nerve issues as they mature? Can't breed.

Your girl really doesn't need another puppy as company. Then they bond together and they don't bond with you.

So my opinion is raise your girl. Put the training and testing into her. Then look around and find a stud to pair her with. It's much less expensive, less work and will give you a better chance of finding the right pairing.
 

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Ditto to everything Jax said. Focus on your pupper now. If you decide to breed her in a couple years there will be plenty of males to pick from at that time. No point in doubling your workload/expenses/time commitments now.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Here's my opinion for what it's worth.


Do these puppies have full registration? The sire is pink papered. Does he have his "AKC papers yet? Does your female have full registration? Or limited?

What if your girl, or perspective male puppy, has bad hips? Can't breed.
What if one of them has a nerve issues as they mature? Can't breed.
Thank you, Jax08 for your response. Yes, our girl has a full registration. The Breeder of the male pup (Wildsteigerland German Shepherds) says she will give me full registration for $200 more. Complete cost is $1,500.

About my girl's hips--I looked at her parents at pedigreedatabase.com and it shows his hips/elbows as Hip: FCI: A 1/2 () - Elbows: FCI: A 1/2 ()

sire: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2555738-max-team-von-der-familien-schafer

The mothers hips and elbows are "not known". Yhe grandfather's hips and elbows are "Hip: CMKU A 0/1 - Elbows: Not known". I could not even find the grandmother.

Question: Are the "not knowns" for hips/elbows red flags?

What does "pink papered" mean??

Thanks so much for your time!
 

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Pink papered means the registration is in Germany. So in order to get AKC papers, the dogs have to submit DNA to AKC, owners in Germany have to sign documents. My 10 mth old came from a litter bred in Germany.

I wouldn't call unknown ratings a red flag at this point. You already have her. If I were buying a puppy and saw that, I would back away. However, you have to have her hips and elbows down. You should send it into the SV to check for TV as well. That's several hundred dollars.

I don't know SV scoring on hips and elbows so can't speak to that. I believe the A is excellent and then the numbers break it down more.

So she'll just hand out full registration for a little more money? No stipulations like the dog has to be titled and then full registration is available?

Then you should get her titled. At the very minimum, she should have an IGP1. You could get a show rating and breed survey done as well.

After you've health tested her and titled her, then you look for a male to compliment her.

And as a side note, I have an intact male and my 10 mth old female just went thru her first heat. Keeping them separate wasn't hard but it's a pain....and then there are the few days that Seger completely lost his mind. Not fun.

I'm not sure where you are in TN but maybe Alexis could help you out finding a club or a trainer. @GatorDog

Just curious - why do you want to breed?
 

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Your pup doesn't need a pup companion.
Two puppies in the same household when both are this young is discouraged for reasons others have given.
My recommendation on which male to get --- neither.

Revisit that decision.


Others have said this with more tact.
 

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I'm just curious about the kennel name, because it certainly doesn't belong to a breeder in Kentucky.

People in general are often unaware that purebred and well bred are two totally different things. Registration is a piece of paper. All it proves is that both parents are purebred, and sometimes not even that.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Your pup doesn't need a pup companion.
Two puppies in the same household when both are this young is discouraged for reasons others have given.
My recommendation on which male to get --- neither.

Revisit that decision.


Others have said this with more tact.
I don't think your response is lacking tact. We appreciate all advice from expereinced GSD owners!
 

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to add to what the others have said, google littermate syndrome. It doesn't apply to simply pups that are siblings or are even the same age. Adding a pup now will make him close enough in age to your girl that your time is going to be split. Having 2 puppies isn't twice the work but more like 3X or more. You do everything 3 times - pup A, pup B, and then both pups together. Then do it with both pups present but with A working and B watching from the crate. Then swap them. So right now, you have done the same training exercise 5X.
Then, as others have said, you can't pick out which dog will compliment your female until she is full grown. It's more than health testing but what you learn about her temperament and genetics while you title her and do further research on her pedigree. What are her strengths? What would you like to see improved? Then you pick the male that is strong in her weak areas to help compensate.
You also have to not only look at the 2 dogs you intend to breed but their pedigrees. Is there a recessive trait - bad teeth, weak ears, testicles don't drop - that has occurred even once in either pedigree? If so, you need to do further research before you breed the 2 dogs. Even 2 "perfect" specimens can produce a genetic quagmire of issues if the pedigrees don't compliment.
 

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Our girl is now 6 months old. We decided we would buy a male to keep her company and possibly breed.
We are in central Tennessee and there are not that many breeders near us. One that we found about 50 miles away has 2 males left who were born 5/1/2019. I attach the Kennel data from the AKC site. The Dam is Yoschi Von Lotta and the sire is Aloisus Van Noort.

Our girls dam was Xerra Z Barabak LIPIN and the sire was Max Team Von Der Familien Schafer. She was born 1/4/2019

Can someone knowledgeable tell us if the male puppy looks like he would be a good stud to breed with our girl?

Can you advise us on what we should be careful about? Any advice would be appreciated.


IMHO, it's too soon to decide whether or not to breed your bitch. Start with doing some working titles, agility, UKC anything. Not because "titles prove a good dog" but rather being among other dogs will help you identify faults and weaknesses in your own dog. Then when your girl hits two do her health clearances. If she passes I'd suggest making contact with reputable breeders and use a proven stud. You could invest in a male puppy only to have him also not turn out and have to start over. By breeding to an outside male you will have a choice of dogs who could better compliment your girl rather than breeding her to what's convenient and possibly double up on issues.
Plus, an experienced breeder will be invaluable when it comes time to whelp a litter, especially if you're not familiar with the process. They will also help you evaluate puppies.
 

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Enjoy your female pup. To raise her well you need all your free time. Keep her in classes at least an entire year. Get a feel for where she is good at and what she and you enjoy. That forms a very strong bond between you and her. It is much harder to maintain that bond when you add a second pup.
Maybe people who have raised two pups at the same time can can chime in.
 

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One more thought as you evaluate over the next year or so whether to become a breeder:

Every pup you bring into the world will be counting on you to be its safety net...for as long as it lives.

After the pups have been sold, some of the families that bought them may experience job and home losses, divorces, grave illnesses, death, birth of a new child with animal allergies, and on and on. How do you feel about taking the tear-filled calls and letting them bring their now-adult dog back to you, and then taking months to find it a good, second home? What if it happens many years later...possibly even with an elderly dog? What if it's returned with serious behavioral problems or major vet care needs?

Ethical breeders' pups almost never end up in rescue because those dogs grow up with the breeder as a safety net -- for support, advice, and if needed, taking the dog back. The reality of following through on that can be rough though -- it can be stressful and expensive.

Even if your dog is amazing and you find a perfect stud, please think long and hard about whether you want that responsibility. It can follow you for a good decade after you sell your last litter.
 

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One more thought as you evaluate over the next year or so whether to become a breeder:

Every pup you bring into the world will be counting on you to be its safety net...for as long as it lives.
I'm going to second all the responsible breeder comments...but I'm going to take this a bit further. I'm going to tell you the part about being a dog breeder that the websites don't tell you about. That most breeders won't tell you about.

1. Puppies are smelly, loud, eat a lot and shots are expensive.
2. Mothers can develop mastitis and breast tissue can and will rot (especially after starting antibiotics).
3.Puppies get sick and die and there is nothing you can do to save them.
4.Sometimes you have to make the hard choice of euthanizing a deformed/crippled puppy because giving it away can lead to far more issues.

Now: On to the REALLy fun stuff.

You will get calls all hours of the night from puppy buyers, especially AFTER they purchase a puppy.
You will get blamed for things that happen 6 months/6 years down the road, no matter WHAT it is. "I let my puppy roam rather than keeping her in a fence and she got hit by a car, I'm going to sue you." And no I am not joking.
You will have vets that tell your puppy buyers a load of crap to milk them for money. (treatment that the dog doesn't need or even telling the owner the dog isn't X age or isn't X breed in order to sell them one of their own dogs)
You will have vets who give terrible advice if not down right malpractice advice (the run the 30lb overweight, 5 month old puppy, four miles a day, comes to mind---then when it's crippled it's your fault)
You will have people who purposely harm your puppies for attention.
You will have people who, no matter how much they paid, no matter how good a person they seem, will neglect the puppy sometimes to death and there is no way for you to know this unless you get lucky enough to find out, then hopefully you can convince them to give the dog back or let you buy it back.
You will have people dump your puppies at the shelter NO MATTER WHAT your contract says. And you'd better be ready to fight to get that dog back to the tune of THOUSANDS of dollars.
You will have people resell your puppy. Note on contracts, they are useless unless you have 1: A monetary penalty a court can enforce. and 2: Tens of thousands of dollars to enforce it. Despite what you see on TV lawyers do not do pro-bono for stuff like that. And even then, they will not bring back a dead dog or reverse its suffering.
You will have people call you to ask you what to do about certain issues, behaviors, or illnesses. If you don't have some knowledge in these areas see third point above.
You will get calls when your puppy dies. Wether natural causes from age or accident. Be ready to console people.
When and if a puppy does develop an issue before a reasonable age, that is either congenital or hereditary, you will need to have a game plan. Are you going to refund money? Are you going to replace the puppy and let them keep the first (are you going to have a puppy to replace it with?) or are you going to wash your hands of it?
Do you know the agricultural laws in your area? Some states, even if you sell a single puppy for a single dollar, require that you are ag licensed (this is not the same as USDA). If you are not ag licensed you could be fined or charged.
Are you ready to lose your home owner's insurance or have the refuse to cover damages because you are "running a business from home" and or whatever else they come up with. What constitutes a business can be argued. Most insurance companies have it fall under, taking money for an item or service and having people come to the location insured to acquire it. I.e. Your garage catches fire and burns down half your house. You had dog kennel in your garage. You do any of the above, that garage becomes a commercial space. Some inspectors will be reasonable, most won't. Yes you can fight it. But again, do you have the money to do that?
Are you ready to give up vacations, holidays, funerals, birthdays, family gatherings, baby showers, things you want (new phone, new computer, new sofa) or even things you or your family NEED to make sure a litter of puppies and the mother have what they need.
Puppies are not born on a time table. You can't wager all the puppies will be placed by 12 weeks of age so you can go on that vacation you've been planning for years.)
Are you ready and able to house older puppies for up to a year (possibly more) because there isn't a suitable home? And are you ready and able to house crippled or deformed puppies who may need special medical care for the rest of their lives, because you can't stomach putting them down and giving them away, will get you sued. Yes, there are idiots. Stupidity is as vast as the universe.
Do you have the space. And I don't mean just square footage. If you wind up with older puppies or you wind up with a large litter, you may very well need to rearrange your own living situation to accommodate. If you have two dogs are you going to be able to build a sanitary, clean, safe area to house them and keep them separate when girls are in season? This goes double for older puppies who can get into fights with each other or parents when kept together. And some dogs, not all, but some, once bred will mark everything. This includes the inside of your house and your expensive furniture or favorite sound system. This is not a behavior that can always be cured with castration (most times it can't.) This kind of situation means you have to work EXTRA hard to make that dog happy and keep them well exercised or they will go stir crazy in a crate or kennel run. Try doing that while bottle feeding a litter of eight puppies.
And are you willing to take the chance you can't handle that male you love and have to rehome him with those behavior issues. Good luck trying to find a responsible person for him to go to.

And all that is just the TIP of the iceberg of dog breeding.
 

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I wouldn’t wish being a breeder on my worse enemy, and have no idea how successful breeders do it.

When I rescued my GSD, she had had a litter of pups 2-3 weeks before I got her. I was told she rejected her pups, and was very aggressive towards the litter. Within 6 hours of having her in my home, she became engorged and started leaking milk like a leaky faucet. I contacted the person (18 year old girl), that had given her to me, and let her know that there was no way she wasn’t feeding the pups. She said it was a tumor causing the leakage, not my GSD engorged because she was nursing the pups. I knew she was full of poo, but there was literally nothing I could do. She was in Mexico, and I was in the US. My GSD ended up with a raging case of mastitis, and I had a very difficult time finding a vet to treat her, because she was never handled by humans, and was very very fear aggressive.

A week went by, the infection started clearing up, and I get a call from the girl that has the pups. She’s crying like crazy because a second pup from the litter had just died. She couldn’t afford to take any of them to the vet, and she was worried whatever the pups were dying from, it would affect her other adult GSD’s that had never been vaccinated.

There began the nightmare. I got a total of 5 pups that day. I wasn’t prepared, I knew nothing about bottle or tube feeding. I lived in a very small house, and I was a single mother, with two very young kids to take care of.

I took a lot of time off work, and made it work the best I could. I vetted all the pups, supplemented the pups nursing with formula, which took lots of bottle feeding, and as they grew, I was feeding them better than I was feeding my own children.

Since I didn’t have a pup to do a necropsy on, the vet assumed it was due to malnutrition, because the 5 pups were severely malnourished the first time I brought them in. So I carried on with them being healthy. Members here actually encouraged me to setup a gofundme account to help with vet expenses because I was swimming in debt with the litter, and couldn’t continue to vet them on my own. This forum literally saved my life financially. The pups were already “sold” when I got them. After getting a clean bill of health, the child that I got them from demanded I return them to her so she could get them to the people she had sold them to. I refused, there was no way she was getting the pups back. I contacted animal control, which in my town is the police department, and they sent some officers over. I was told not to return the puppies to the girl, she has no legal right to get them back. Then the harassment started. Endless phone calls, texts, and Facebook messages from her friends and family, and from 2 of the people I refused a puppy to, because they were unfit homes.

Needless to say, I was a wreck. Financially, emotionally, physically. You wouldn’t believe the smell a litter of puppies make, no matter how often you clean up after them. The noise is constant and loud. I couldn’t sleep, I couldn’t eat, my life was devoted to cleaning, feeding, wipe, and repeat.

I had them vetted again at 8 weeks, given a clean bill of health, and they were given their first shot and dewormer. They were sent home with the families, and all was well. Until I started getting texts and phone calls with hysterical owners because something was wrong with their pup. I had one person return a pup to me because the wife couldn’t handle the puppy crying all night. Another of the pups that was homed had a medical emergency pop up, and I ended up with two pups back with me. I rehomed the one that was returned, and was holding on to the last one waiting for the owner to pick him up. One by one the pups starting dying. I took every call from the owners, and cried right along with them. Offered them their money back, even though I personally never took money from them. I had to make the choice to have the remaining pup PTS because he was displaying all the symptoms the other pups were, and he started having massive seizures. All the puppies died of distemper. All but one. It was the most heartbreaking thing I’ve ever gone through.

I was upfront and honest with the owners from day one, and they were all very supportive, and knew I did all I could to ensure healthy pups. But no one can turn back the clock on distemper.

I was raised by parents who bred Rottweilers. I thought I could handle a litter. God was I wrong. In my child eyes it looked so easy and fun. When the entire litter was gone but the one, I called my mom (who I hadn’t spoken to in years) and asked how they did it. She said every litter was the last litter they would have, because each litter took too much of everything. Time, money, space, and arguments with my dad because they were both constantly exhausted. She said it was the main cause of their divorce. My dad wanted to continue to breed, and my mom just couldn’t handle it anymore. My dad bred one more litter, and without my mom there to help, ended up selling the litter, and the two breeding pair he had.

From what I hear, neither of those were extreme cases (with the exception of a bitch separated from a litter). Happens to the best of breeders. Both made a huge impact on my life, and I wouldn’t ever breed any animal if given the choice. The thread about my rescue and her pups is still searchable in the forum. If you want to see the play by play of how hectic and scary it was, just search Lyka, it will pop up.

Best of luck to you, whichever way you chose to go.
 

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No way to know if your two dogs would be compatible. I have a nice female and a nice male that can never be bred together. There would be too many health risks to do so. There are way too many variables when breeding. I spend the better part of a year looking at studs before I commit to one.

Honestly, dealing with the puppies is the easy part. Dealing with the people, is the hard part. Screening them, trying to find the right match, making sure the stuff they tell you isn't BS. Then when issues do arise, answering calls, emails, training sessions, and even in some cases buying a dog back. Personally I don't even know if/when I'm going to do another litter. It's not worth the headache of dealing with people to me. There's enough good breeders out there to get me the dog I want.

Also any breeder who would sell on full registration for extra cash is only in it for the money, not the dogs. Personally I'd run away. Those who are in it for the cash will not be there to give you support when you need it. Just my two cents.
 
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