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Hello,

My husband and I are looking for a solid black female with full breeding rights. We are looking into starting up a kennel and I want to make sure we do it RIGHT (OFA Good hips,elbows, temperament etc). I've talked with another (somewhat) established breeder and she says it's impossible for me to get a female with full breeding rights with out jumping through flaming hoops, let alone a solid black. Am I crazy? Can any of you breeders out there advise??:help:
 

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No offense but it kinda sounds like you woke up this morning and decided you want to breed GERMAN SHEPHERDS.
 

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You want to do it right but not have to jump through hoops? Why do you want black? What about specific lines, type, temperament? I am not a breeder, but a buyer currently looking for a pup and there needs to be a better reason than just wanting to have a GSD kennel. What experience do you have? Do the people you show/train/trial with have any advice as far as helping you find a dog?
 

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There is a lot more to "doing it right" than OFA/Hips, Elbows, temperament and ect . . ."

Doing it right is having a life-time of experience and knowledge. It is about more than breeding black dogs, but breeding working dogs that have been trained and titled (by yourself) to prove that your dogs can work. It is knowing if you want to breed American Show lines, German Show lines, or working lines, and if working lines, what characteristics in particular do you want to preserve and improve on?

Agree with the other poster. Sounds like you like black German Shepherds (nothing wrong with that), and decided to start up a little kennel to make extra money.
People who do it right breed for the love of the dog, few make money on it, if they can, more power to them, but that is not their main objective.

The breeder you talked to is right. Responsible breeders who "do it right", will want their bloodlines and good kennel name preserved and carried on by the progeny of their breedable bitches, and will have a lot of stipulations and conditions for selling breeding prospects. Usually they sell their puppies with limited, and upgrade to full once those conditions are met, most often a minimum of OFA hips/elbows, and some work/performance title like SchH I.
 

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There are way too many dogs in the world already. There are not enough homes for all of them. Have you ever been to an animal shelter? Have you ever looked into their eyes knowing that they probably wont make it out of there alive? Have you ever seen a dog on the side of the road because it got hit by a car? Have you ever seen a dog picking through the trash? Some stray dogs add to the population but so do people that wake up one morning and decide they want to start breeding dogs.

Besides owning a GSD why do you want to breed?
To better the breed?
To produce top quality dogs?
Are you looking to breed oversized dogs?

:confused:
 

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There is a lot more to "doing it right" than OFA/Hips, Elbows, temperament and ect . . ."

Doing it right is having a life-time of experience and knowledge. It is about more than breeding black dogs, but breeding working dogs that have been trained and titled (by yourself) to prove that your dogs can work. It is knowing if you want to breed American Show lines, German Show lines, or working lines, and if working lines, what characteristics in particular do you want to preserve and improve on?

Agree with the other poster. Sounds like you like black German Shepherds (nothing wrong with that), and decided to start up a little kennel to make extra money.
People who do it right breed for the love of the dog, few make money on it, if they can, more power to them, but that is not their main objective.

The breeder you talked to is right. Responsible breeders who "do it right", will want their bloodlines and good kennel name preserved and carried on by the progeny of their breedable bitches, and will have a lot of stipulations and conditions for selling breeding prospects. Usually they sell their puppies with limited, and upgrade to full once those conditions are met, most often a minimum of OFA hips/elbows, and some work/performance title like SchH I.

Here, Here! I agree
 

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Look. The reality is this. Really quality breeding females are difficult to find because breeders KEEP them. You cannot find a young adult female with all the necessary compenents for being a quality breeding dog, also in one of the more fad colors without taking out a mortgage on your house. We're talking MAJOR money, IF you can even find someone willing to sell the dog. There's usually SOME reason they're selling the dog. Either the puppies are not turning out the way they wanted, the bitch has some kind of issue (think fertility or temperament issues) and they want to sell her quick, or the bitch is old and maybe has 1 litter left?

If you look at the progression of most reputable hobby breeders they either started with a quality puppy from someone else's breeding program and raised and trained it and hoped it turned out right. OR they spent top dollar and obtained an older female which they got one or two litters from, retained females from those litters and went from there. I have also seen people who have an excellent male, stud it out to a quality female and retain a bitch puppy for a future breeding prospect.

Most people I know who have gone out and bought adult females with the intent of breeding have gotten screwed. I suggest that you look into developng a relationship with a reputable breeder that is close to you and maybe look into co-owning a bitch to get started under the guidance of that other breeder. It takes years to build a reputable program.
 

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I suggest that you look into developng a relationship with a reputable breeder that is close to you and maybe look into co-owning a bitch to get started under the guidance of that other breeder. It takes years to build a reputable program.
Darn! I was going to say that.

I also want to say, I like black dogs!! Its a bummer in the summer time, but if I got a GSD, it would have to be black and I'd wait as long as it took to find one. But I already have my dogs for the rest of my life. ;)
 

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I suggest that you look into developng a relationship with a reputable breeder that is close to you and maybe look into co-owning a bitch to get started under the guidance of that other breeder. It takes years to build a reputable program.
Definitely. Breeding is very complicated and takes a lot of knowledge and experience. Your best bet is to find a breeder that is willing to mentor you.
 

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I've talked with another (somewhat) established breeder and she says it's impossible for me to get a female with full breeding rights with out jumping through flaming hoops, let alone a solid black.
I'm not really a breeder myself, but I work closely with a good friend of mine when she uses my dogs in her breeding program. She breeds American showlines, so obviously someone with a different type of dog might have a different response. However, she will sell a female with full breeding rights on the condition that it must be shown. She breeds dogs primarily for conformation (no she doesn't ignore health, temperment, etc, but her focus is on the show ring). So she requires someone who is going to breed one of her dogs to do the same thing she does - show the dog.

In my opinion, this is a good policy. If I am passionate about showing in conformation or doing Schutzund or doing obedience or SAR or whatever, and I have put the time into my dogs to train them and show them in these things (or work them in SAR), then I would expect someone who wants to breed one of my pups to put in the same effort.

So if you went to my friend, for example, and tried to buy a female, she would tell you she stays as a co-owner on the dog's papers until you have shown the dog a certain number of times. You might consider this "jumping through hoops" when in fact the breeder is trying to protect their lines.

When you put blood, sweat and tears into something, you don't want someone to come along and reap the benefits without doing any work. You want them to put in the same work you did because it's important to you.

Tracie
www.atlaskennels.com
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
Wow, I wasn't expecting to get torn apart....but okay, I guess I haven't given enough information for all of you. Thank you to those that offered some advise.

I did NOT wake up this morning and decide I wanted to breed GSD's. I've grown up with GSD's, my grandmother was a breeder for the Sheriff's dept and I got my love of the breed from her. I live in the country, have plenty of room, I love the breed and want to make the breed better. I DO NOT want to do this for the sole purpose of making a buck. Besides, there is an awful lot of investment of time & money to even making an attempt. I am looking for advise and guidance. I'll be the first to admit I'm COMPLETELY new at this and want to do it right. Everyone has to start somewhere. As quoted several times, it looks as though the best way to go is co-own and learn.

Solid black is what we would PREFER to have, but not necessary. I prefer working lines. Also I don't believe that this is too much to ask.."stays as a co-owner on the dog's papers until you have shown the dog a certain number of times" I'd probably do the same thing to protect all of my time and effort put into the breed.
 

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Wow, I wasn't expecting to get torn apart....but okay, I guess I haven't given enough information for all of you. Thank you to those that offered some advise.

I did NOT wake up this morning and decide I wanted to breed GSD's. I've grown up with GSD's, my grandmother was a breeder for the Sheriff's dept and I got my love of the breed from her. I live in the country, have plenty of room, I love the breed and want to make the breed better. I DO NOT want to do this for the sole purpose of making a buck. Besides, there is an awful lot of investment of time & money to even making an attempt. I am looking for advise and guidance. I'll be the first to admit I'm COMPLETELY new at this and want to do it right. Everyone has to start somewhere. As quoted several times, it looks as though the best way to go is co-own and learn.

Solid black is what we would PREFER to have, but not necessary. I prefer working lines. Also I don't believe that this is too much to ask.."stays as a co-owner on the dog's papers until you have shown the dog a certain number of times" I'd probably do the same thing to protect all of my time and effort put into the breed.
Best thing to do is look around at breeders you like that have black dogs in their lines, and start communicating directly with them. That way they can evaluate your background and experience, willingness to co-own (or not), goals of your breeding program (is it in-line with theirs?).

We have quite a few breeder on this site. Many of us with sable or black dogs can point you in their direction if you need more guidance. Then going directly with them will really give you more information.

We all do tend to over react (me too :wild: ) if we've been here for awhile cause we are beat down from all the dogs in the Urgent and Non Urgent section, and people that get puppies from BYB that now have tons of health or temperment issues, so only want more dogs added to the population by 'responsible' breeders.

So if you DO fit the bill for a responsible breeder then I am behind you all the way!!!!

Dog Play: Making a Difference: Being a Responsible Dog Breeder

What is a Breeder

Types of Breeders

RESPONSIBLE OR BYB ?
 

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Wow, I wasn't expecting to get torn apart....but okay, I guess I haven't given enough information for all of you. Thank you to those that offered some advise.
I'm sorry about that. But remember we are just so passionate about the breed and dogs in general that we don't want to see anything bad happen. Many of us get too emotional and jump too soon. Bad breeders bring dogs that degrade the reputation of the breed, and add to the overpopulation problem.

It sounds like you have great intentions. Your best bet really is to find a breeder willing to mentor you. This will help you build up a name and reputation before you start breeding. Its also EXTREMELY helpful to have someone you could call at 3 in the morning when you're worried about your dogs labor ;)
 

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I would hook up with a solid club, get a dog that you can show or work or whatever it is you plan to do, and use that dog to get experience working and training dogs. I've only done a lot of training with two dogs so far and believe me, the dog I would have wanted at the beginning is totally different from the dog I am looking to buy now. Just the process of training and trialing with those two dogs has taught me what it is I look for in my future dogs and what things I will avoid. There's so much variety in the breed, even narrowing it down to black working lines is still very vague.
 

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I've talked with another (somewhat) established breeder and she says it's impossible for me to get a female with full breeding rights with out jumping through flaming hoops, let alone a solid black.
Nothings impossible..

Most dogs coming from over seas have no restrictions.. So you might want to consider importing a bitch..
 

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Most dogs coming from over seas have no restrictions.. So you might want to consider importing a bitch..
There's a thought. I just imported my Dutch Shepherd from The Netherlands. My only restriction is that I not sell my dog to a K9 company.

To do this try to locate the breeders and start contacting by email. I email in their native language by using Google Translate. If they then want to email in English, I do that, otherwise I stick with German (or whatever).

After you get a few contacts with breeders, you might want to take a trip and visit them. I find that they are very happy to have you visit, and they are happy to see you are serious and get to know you a little.

http://www.dsh-forum.de/
 

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Nothings impossible..

Most dogs coming from over seas have no restrictions.. So you might want to consider importing a bitch..
True. But this is where you want to be very careful. You need to build importing contacts and it could get pretty expensive to "custom order" a breeding female.

So far everyone I know who has imported a dog based on websites/advertising (Think Pedigree Database ads) without going through a solid contact has been sold garbage.
 

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There's a thought. I just imported my Dutch Shepherd from The Netherlands. My only restriction is that I not sell my dog to a K9 company.

To do this try to locate the breeders and start contacting by email. I email in their native language by using Google Translate. If they then want to email in English, I do that, otherwise I stick with German (or whatever).

After you get a few contacts with breeders, you might want to take a trip and visit them. I find that they are very happy to have you visit, and they are happy to see you are serious and get to know you a little.

Startseite - Schaeferhund-forum.de
Ooo. I saw some nice looking black puppies on this forum. Under "breeding" and "Schwarzer Schäferhundrüde zu verkaufen "
 
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