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I am a little confused about the use of "vom" and "von" in registered names of dogs. I was under the impression that "vom" means of and "von" means the, the first in relation to a specific kennel or bloodline. I think I am wrong about the meaning of von. Can someone please explain the two terms for me? It's greatly appreciated!

Also, when it comes to choosing a name for a working-line kennel, is it smart to go strictly German or is it okay to go with something English? I see some strictly German names and some kennels that use a format such as: Dogname vom Summerview.

Opinions? Thoughts? Experiences?

Thank you!
 

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I am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.
 

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Originally Posted By: AmaruqI am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.
I see males and females using vom, so I don't think it's gender-specific.
 

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I think in dog naming conventions, the name is gender specific to the owner of the kennel (breeder), not the gender of the dog. Confuses me too. If it helps, Otto's registered name is Otto von Hena-C. His breeder is a woman who's maiden name is Hennessy.
 

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I am sitting next to my German Au Pair, (who had never been exposed to SchH until coming to America 15 months ago), and while it is true "von" is associative of the feminine, it is more correct to think of it as previously posted, von = of and vom = from....either working for dog naming convention.
 

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Originally Posted By: Wolfen
Originally Posted By: AmaruqI am NOT a linguist but the way I understand it, vom and von both mean of/the depending on the noun that it preceeds. One is masculine and the other feminine.
I see males and females using vom, so I don't think it's gender-specific.
It has nothing to do with male or female DOGS it is the gender of the kennel name.
 

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Based on what Wayne02's au pair said, I wonder why a breeder would pick one over the other.
 

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And I am not German, nor do I speak German, but German nouns, even object nouns, all have a gender: masculine, feminine, or neutral. As in French, all object nouns are either masculine or feminine, and the article used in front has to agree with the noun that follows. English nouns are all neutral, and the designating article is also.

For example, in English, you would say "The table", and "the truck", and neither table nor truck have a gender - they just are.

In French, table is feminine and you would use the feminine spelling of "the" and truck if masculine, so you would use the masculine version of "the".

For example, the table and the truck in French becomes:

"Une table (feminine), and Un camion (masculine).

So not sure exactly the difference between 'vom' and 'von', but as Wayne mentioned, there is both a gender rule, and a possessive/relationship rule to the word that it precedes, and the word/kennel name in and of itself would possess gender independent of the gender of the dog, or the gender of the breeder.

There are board members who are fluent in German . . . if lucky, we may get a real good explanation - my explanation was just to highlight the concept of common nouns having gender, a strange concept to native English speakers.
 

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In general they are used the same, the difference only has to do with the gender of the kennel name, not the dog. It's actually the gender of the noun in the prepositional phrase, which in this case is the kennel name or surname of the breeder.

"Von" is not the; the is "die", "der", or "das" (and "den" or "dem" depending on the use in prepositional phrases).

It's been a while, but technically the preposition is "von" meaning from, by, or of. It is a dative preposition so it becomes "vom" when the noun is masculine or neuter. Basically it's a shortening of "von dem". If the noun is feminine, it's "von den" which both have the "n". Hence "von" or "vom".

Quote:Based on what Wayne02's au pair said, I wonder why a breeder would pick one over the other.
You cannot really pick unless you don't care that you might pick wrong. However the German language has far less words than many other language and obviously will not include all surnames used in kennel names. In these cases....I'm not really sure how to correctly describe it since I'm not a linguist but the correct one just feels correct.
 

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It depends on the gender of the primary noun in the kennel name. Not the gender of the dog or owners of the kennel.

Von is correct for use with feminine nouns. Vom, which is actually a contraction of von and dem, is correct for use with masculine or neuter nouns.

For example our kennel name is Wildhaus. Haus is the noun. Haus is neuter. Therefore voM Wildhaus is correct and voN Wildhaus would be incorrect grammar.
 

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Originally Posted By: Liesje
"Von" is not the; the is "die", "der", or "das" (and "den" or "dem" depending on the use in prepositional phrases).
I was just using "the" as an example. But probably good thing you clarified, I can see I might have confused people. .
 

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Lucia, your examples were great. I was responding to this...

Originally Posted By: WolfenI was under the impression that "vom" means of and "von" means the
 

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Unlike English, German assigns gender to its nouns. There are three possible genders - feminine, masculine, and neuter. The only way to learn which word is which gender is to learn the vocabulary along with the gender so you will get it right. For example -

der Tisch - the table - masculine ("der")
das Haus - the house - neuter ("das")
die Katze - the cat - feminine ("die")

This is important to know before you ever think about whether it should be "von" or "vom" because it plays a role in that.

"Von" and "vom" both translate to "of" or "from" in English because they are actually the same word used with nouns of different genders. Example -

Abby vom Haus Schmitt - Abby of/from House Schmitt
It has to be "vom" because "vom" is a contraction of "von dem". It has to be "dem" because that is the dative case of "das" in "das Haus".

Abby von den Blauen Bergen - Abby from the Blue Mountains
It has to be "von den" because "Bergen" is plural (it's generally "von den" if there is a plural involved)

The word "von" is not influenced by the gender of the dog, but the gender of the kennel name.

If your kennel name is, for example, "Haus Mueller" it needs to be "vom" because it is "das Haus" and Mueller is a name.

If your kennel name is, for example, "Leerburg", it would be "von Leerburg" because Leerburg is a name, not a word.

If your kennel name is, for example, "Blaue Berge", it would be "von den Blauen Bergen" because it is plural.

If your kennel name is, for example, "Blauer Berg", it would be "vom Blauen Berg" because it's singular and "der Berg", masculine.
 

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Quote:So moral of the story - check with a fluent German speaker to make sure that you use the correct grammar when coming up with a kennel name!
Or you will end up with something like "vom Schwarze-Hunde" and those of us who speak German will point and laugh.
 

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Originally Posted By: Historian
Quote:So moral of the story - check with a fluent German speaker to make sure that you use the correct grammar when coming up with a kennel name!
Or you will end up with something like "vom Schwarze-Hunde" and those of us who speak German will point and laugh.

Or you have just solved your dog's gender confusion!
Mr. Frodo von Baggins.........
 
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