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Discussion Starter #1
Hello my friends, i have a huge problem...

I have a male german shephard (almost 2 years old) and he is with us since a baby.

I went to the shelter and got a male mix with 3 years old.

I introduce both and it was unbelievable how good they were together. German (kaiser) would sleep and play with the other dog (franky), they were amazing. All the people were amazed how good they behave together.

Kaiser is very dominant, he paws the other, does whatever he wants, franky amazingly submissive. Both are big males.

I introduced another dog, a pincher, a female and they accepted 100%. Play all together, sleep together, it was paradise...

All this last for 6 months...i even let all 3 alone, because i trusted all of them...

This week...just like that, a snap...they tried to kill each other...they fought, blood, and cant even stand each other now. I have both chained, but its destroiyng my heart. I cant stand that.

None of all 3 are nutered.

Kaiser, is kaiser all the time, tail high, look straight, hears high...but Franky is over excited...he is all the time barking, cant stand kaiser near him, will jump if i walk kaiser near...he was the most peacefull dog in the world...until now...

Can you PLEASE, help me with this issue?
 

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Im affraid, yes. They lick her out, and smell, but none tryes to hump her...could be because shes small...
That’s the problem and I’ve never seen dogs become friendly towards each other again once a female in heat has been around. I’ve seen two brothers who grew up together try to kill each other constantly after a female went into heat in their presence.
 

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Chaining these dogs will probably increase their aggression level. You need to purchase appropriate kennels and place them so that the two male dogs cannot see each other. You will not be able to allow them to be loose together. You have entered the wonderful world of crate/kennel and rotate. Chaining the males is just not an appropriate solution.

The female needs to be kept out of sight of both of the males until she is no longer in heat.

It *may* help to have the female spayed. But even with that, you should never trust these two males unsupervised, even if they seem to go back to getting along like champs.
 

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Can you board the female and take charge of the boys and see how things unfold in a few weeks? If they do, just keep the two males, spay the female(to avoid her ending up in a puppy mill) and rehome her. But never leave them unsupervised together. If things do not improve between the males after these weeks, find a home for one of the males you enjoy the least and get your female back.
I am sorry about your situation. It is tough when they don't get along.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Tomorrow i have an apointment with a vet/animal psyc... I need to get the "family" together...i cant stand the ideia of letting 1 go. Just cant. I have my GSD inside and Franky outside. Franky miss us, i know, by the way he barks..

Im gonna put them all in the vet, nutered, and bring my family home...


Or...im just fooling myself, and the family is over... ?
 

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An animal psychic? The other male looks like pitbull type in the woodpile. Get rid of the other dogs- keep Kaiser. Problem solved.
 

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Animal psychologist. And "get rid of the others dogs, problem solved" ? Thats it? I dont own animals, they are family dude.

Franky is a mix from mastin with God knows what, but i never saw such a friendly dog in my life like him. I have cats, chickens, rabbits, a snake, etc...and he is amazing with others animals since day 1.

He lived 2 years in a shelter, they were going to kill him...and i should get "rid" of him?....Thats just cruel man... And all because a mistake i made.... Imagine how i feel now...
 

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I think “get rid of” was an unfortunate choice of words. I know this is emotional. It seems like the addition of your female triggered the fighting. Is it possible to have her stay with someone else for awhile, and see how your boys behave when it’s back to just the two of them?
 

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Get the female spayed and in the meantime keep her away from the other dogs. First because she is small enough to be inadvertently crushed and second (I can't believe you didn't consider this) if either tries to breed her they will kill her! And they will try.
Your boys are not likely to ever get along and unless you are committed to control you could be begging a problem.
Control means separation, obedience and diligence. All day, every day.
Personally, I don't know what you were thinking. You had one good dog, you risked a second and it was working well so you thought you should throw an unspayed female into the mix? Really? Come on "dude" this isn't family it's a disaster. And really were you hoping for puppies or what? Stop being ridiculous and consider the position you have put your dogs in.

Take a good look at your dogs and tell me if they are happy right now. You don't need a doggy psychic to figure it out, you just need eyes.
 

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Ricardo, honestly, if I said what I think of this situation, my post would likely get deleted. Did you give ANY thought to what the consequences would be of adopting two intact males? Did you do any research, ask anyone?

Then adding an unspayed female to the mix...seriously??? :rolleyes2:

As far as keeping the dogs separated, I tried that with a seriously dog aggressive female. It did not end well. She killed another dog, and I had to have her euthanized.

Just warning you that it's not as easy as you might think. :crying:
 

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I have cats, chickens, rabbits, a snake, etc..

And all because a mistake i made.... Imagine how i feel now...
** Rude personal attack. Please think before you post or you will get a warning or a time out. ADMIN**

Yes, you made a mistake but so did we all before we got smarter. We learn and do better. So you own your mistake and now you need to solve this chaos.
Replace "getting rid" with "finding a good and safe home for x, y or z". If Frankie is such a great dog, why was he in the shelter for 2 years? The way you describe him, he should be able to find a good place.

In the past I had a similar situation: I had two intact male Whippets (different caliber than GSDs of course) who lived happily together. One day I took a client's dog in who happened to go into heat shortly after. The one male attacked the other, sending him to the vet to get stitched up. I immediately had the female foster dog spayed, while in heat. That turned everything back to normal and the males never fought again. But 1. they were Whippets and 2. they were opposites on the hierarchy spectrum.
Please keep us posted on how you are going about this. We all have the best intentions. Most are pretty direct but honest and caring.
 

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I prefer a cruel truth than a beautifull lie, i get the point, but how its possible to be cruxified by "smart than all" people, when you dont even have a clue why i did all of this?...

Every one of us, including YOU, made or make mistakes, and learn from them. Im learning the hardest way.

Franky was 2 years in the shelter, because of his looks. Big head, big dog, scary dog...but i swear on my mothers grave, i never saw such kind dog. Towards all kinds of animals. ALL!

I trust more in Franky with others animals than Kaiser to be honest...

Kaiser is with us his entire life, and we love him to death, nothing will keep us apart.

The pincher belongs to my dad, wich unfortunelly got sick and spent 2 months at the hospital. She was locked in the apt for 2 months, never tooked to walks. Neighbour goes to apt, 1 time a day to feed her, God knows what, and thats it...

I did the worst, with the best intentions, and i swear on my soul, i would give years of my life to have my family how it was...

Im devastated with what can come in the fufure.

Have them in kennels, or chained or whatever is NOT an option for me. My dogs sleep inside, with us...

Im "crying" for help, to see if i find someone who had a similar issue, and how they solved it, not to be "blessed" by you, thats why some post are a bit offensive. But...in the end...

IM LEARNING MY LESSON THE HARDEST WAY...
 

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Get the bitch spayed, and the dogs neutered.

Get a trainer, and do a two week shut down -- start over from scratch.

With bitches, I'd say it was a losing battle, but with dogs, you just might be able to make it work if the boys are both neutered, and the bitch is spayed, and you change your leadership style.

Everything you thought you knew about dogs might have to go out the window. If you want THESE dogs together again, then you might have to START with crating or kenneling them and slowly, once all the hormones have settled down, and your individual training and leadership has increased, you can slowly bring them together again.

Not going to be easy. Not going to be cheap. if they make each other bleed again, then you have to go back to square one and wait even longer to try again. One of the biggest mistakes people make is that after a fight, when the hormones are still strong, they start introducing the dogs again. This spurs another fight, or in the least increases the knowledge that the other dog is there and ready to do serious damage and the owner isn't going to be able to protect us.

Yes it would be easiest to rehome the brindle dog. Not because it is not a GSD, but because it is the more recently acquired male. Keeping the dog we've had longer is generally the accepted practice. It discourages the flipping of dogs so many Americans are guilty of -- get tired of this one, dump it, get a different one. Either one -- that would be easiest. The male and female will get along together.

But yes, putting an intact bitch into a group of two young males, and what did you expect. If you have a stadium full of men, and introduce 1 woman into the crowd, dynamics change. It is the same with intact dogs. Once she goes into heat, the other dog becomes a rival. You know this. It's not rocket science.

Sometimes we see other folks have a slew of dogs and think oh wow that's what I want. But really, the ideal number of dogs is 2. Generally one male, one female, but occasionally 2 males are fine. 3 will often leave two beating on the other. 2 dogs, generally does not require superior leadership skills. 2 dogs usually can live harmoniously in the house, with the run of the house, neutered or intact.

But once you bring in a bitch, that changes. Neutering might help. Neutering along with training and leadership, that might do the trick. I am not all that hopeful. Most folks talk a lot, but are unwilling to do what needs to be done to save their dogs. What you need to do is an honest personal inventory. And if you cannot commit to the individual training and leadership these dogs need before you try to let them be together again, then please re-home one.

ETA: Yes, I currently have all those dogs down below. 13 are bitches of which one is spayed, the two dogs, one is intact the other is neutered (not my doing). 10 are kenneled in pairs, four of which can go in and out of my house in their kennel areas. the other 5 bitches are kenneled individually. The 10, which include the neutered boy and the intact boy, two mother/daughter pairs, and an old bitch and a young middle of the road confident bitch, can be moved around and kenneled with other dogs in the group. But I keep it to two at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thx for the input people, i do really appreciate it. I really do.

Im not going to give up my dogs without trying, i swear. My dogs are my family.

Today i have the meeting with the vet. All dogs will be neutered. All 3.

As long as i understand how the hormones work, i will need 1 month and 1/2 to drop very low.

Kaiser stays at home, Franky goes to a foster home and the bitch to another.

All dogs will have contact with us daily.

In 2 months i hope we will be back together...under the same roof.

And.. i will do whatever it takes or costs...its a
 

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Looks like you have a good plan. Of course it will be three steps forward, two back. Most plans go that way. Please let us know how it progresses. That is how we learn from each other.
 

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I have two males that I keep seperate. It is somewhat annoying but now that it's part of our routine it's not that bad. Our circumstances may be somewhat different than yours because I don't have a female, and I'm not worried that my males would seriously harm or kill the other. I keep one dog upstairs and one dog downstairs or in the fenced yard and then I rotate every couple of hours. It's not what I envisioned, but I knew it was a possibility when I got two GSDs of the same sex. No big deal. No one gets hurt. Problem solved.

Definitely hire a trainer if you can. Find someone with GSD or working dog experience, not just any trainer you find in the yellow pages.

But if your males are in danger of seriously harming each other, and you can't keep them seperate, you may have to make some hard decisions and consider what is truly best for the dogs. Better for one dog to go to a great new home than to risk one or both being maimed, battered, bullied, or killed. I hope you find a solution. I know how disappointing and stressful it can be when the family doesn't get along. Keep us updated.
 
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