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A dominant black is certainly possible by genetic mutation!

For a better understanding, a clarification of terminology is due at this point:

The genes for coat color are agouti and the extension MC1R (this has a dominant black phenotype--unsure if it's in the GSD too). These genes antagonize each other and regulate the type, amount, and distribution pattern of the two pigment types. Offspring always inherit the gene.

The alleles of agouti are aw, as, at, a. Offspring receive one per parent.

The corresponding phenotypes for agouti are sable, b+t, bi-color, black. If true life was as simple as simple mendelian genetics, the allele received will have the phenotype expected.

But it actually isn't that simple. There have been studies in some dog breeds and other mammals that indicate a pigment-type switching pattern within cDNA controlled by alternative usage of different promoters and untranslated first exons. Epigenetic? Definitely. Basically, nature does what it wants.

*jumps off soap box*:blush:
 

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I've heard more than one person comment recently of a dominant black gene. A friend has a male with the dominant black. I would love to know where that popped up since traditionally black in German Shepherds is recessive.
I think it was Russian GSDs I heard people mentioning had a dominant black gene? It was guessed that another breed may have been mixed in that was responsible for that.

Although it is possible that there was a genetic mutation like the first panda shepherd. Then went from there?
 

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Hi All,

Because I own a breed closed to the GDS, I have seen this color many times and asked in our main forum for confirmation. This German Shepherd above in the thumbnail is BLACK SMOKE.
Cheers everyone!

Nayack
 

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It is indeed likely that it is dominant black. There was a dog introduced to the breed from Russia, so not truly a color that originated in the breed, but now it can be found in certain lines. It manifests a bit differently but they did test the color genetics of dogs coming down from the line and they indeed came back KB dominant black.

Here's one of the dogs that goes back on that Russian line:
Zherom v. Nord Traum
 

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This GSD dog above is Black Smoke.
They are very frequent as a color in Altdeustcher Schäferhund and I asked around on various forums before I posted on here.
Hope that helps.
:wink2:
 

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Discussion Starter #27
It is indeed likely that it is dominant black. There was a dog introduced to the breed from Russia, so not truly a color that originated in the breed, but now it can be found in certain lines. It manifests a bit differently but they did test the color genetics of dogs coming down from the line and they indeed came back KB dominant black.

Here's one of the dogs that goes back on that Russian line:
Zherom v. Nord Traum
Sounds like a very plausible explanation and indeed the ped of the female I posted is similar to the male you linked.
 

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The colour referred to as "Black smoke" is genetically a Seal Variant.

I know theres a kennel in the Ukraine that breeds Black Seal WGSL. I'm usually not a big fan of WGSL but these dogs are lovely.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
The colour referred to as "Black smoke" is genetically a Seal Variant.

I know theres a kennel in the Ukraine that breeds Black Seal WGSL. I'm usually not a big fan of WGSL but these dogs are lovely.
Do you mean sable variant? I am not sure what a Seal Variant is.
 

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The colour referred to as "Black smoke" is genetically a Seal Variant.

I know theres a kennel in the Ukraine that breeds Black Seal WGSL. I'm usually not a big fan of WGSL but these dogs are lovely.
Do you mean sable variant? I am not sure what a Seal Variant is.
No I mean seal.

Seal colouring is when the dog has a lighter undercoat with darker guard hairs (yes similar to sable but not the same gene) as far as I know the gene that causes it is undiscovered but it comes in a variety of variations from making a black dog look more liver to how it shows up in shepherds which is the smokey black look with lighter undercoat.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2652732-sokrovennaya-mechta-in-flame-of-the-fame-golden-pack

The dog posted here is a black seal, one parent is black the other is red and black. She produces black seal dogs.
 

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It does look like a sable. :) very pretty!


My puppy is a silver sable
 
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