German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Saw this dog in pdbase. One of the random peds that site throws out at the bottom of the page and she has a coloration that I've never seen before. Checked out the ped and almost all of it was German showline except for one line that goes back to black Russian GSDs. The dog is from a Romanian kennel and it seems that some East European countries have a taste for black colored showlines but this girl is not exactly black. Anyone seen this coloration before?
 

Attachments

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,681 Posts
Yes, many years ago. Unfortunately it has been too long so I don't remember what the consensus was on what the color actually is. I know the sire of the dog I saw was a very dark bi-color, but that is all I remember.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
All the dogs in her ped are the usual well-known West German showline black and red names, plus a single line that goes back to Russia. She may be a rare variation of a bi-color with tan undercoat hair bleeding through a black top coat. I think it looks pretty. It might also change when she matures.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,101 Posts
Gorgeous!Reminds me of some photos I've seen of black wolves with a little gray on them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Gorgeous!Reminds me of some photos I've seen of black wolves with a little gray on them.
Yes, that's it. I did see a video of a wolf who had the exact same coloration. It was a video of a man who spends a lot of time inside a zoo enclosure in Britain with a litter of wolves. All the wolves are the usual gray except for a black one that is not exactly black either and had a coat identical to the GSD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
My late girl was a black. Her Mum was black and tan, Dad was black. I know the mum carried the blue gene. My girl had a white chest and was white under her tail. When she chased anything with her tail up she used to flash like a rabbit lol. By 18 months the white hair had gone. It wasn't until she was about 6 or 7 that it started coming back. On the chest and in patches like this dog but not as pronounced. Could it just be white hair bleeding through?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I do photography so I know the white balance in this photo is tweaked more toward the magenta side. You can see it from the man's hand color and the rust color on the iron fence behind him. People who shoot stacked pictures of showline GSDs tend to do this tweak to make the reds look redder than in real life. So in real life I expect the non-black hairs to be more tan than red. Still looks pretty and exotic though.
(Can also depend on the monitor, my monitor has not been color checked like it is done by professional photographers.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
167 Posts
I do photography so I know the white balance in this photo is tweaked more toward the magenta side. You can see it from the man's hand color and the rust color on the iron fence behind him. People who shoot stacked pictures of showline GSDs tend to do this tweak to make the reds look redder than in real life. So in real life I expect the non-black hairs to be more tan than red. Still looks pretty and exotic though.
(Can also depend on the monitor, my monitor has not been color checked like it is done by professional photographers.)
That is so interesting. Having had a much closer look at the photo, there does seen to be a pink hue on the upper half of the photo. However you are right, very pretty dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
95 Posts
Well, genetically sable is sable is sable. Then just like people some are darker than others.
Can you get a sable from a black&red sire, and a pure black bitch mating?
Remember back in school when you did the plant or eye color chart thing? That’s the super simplistic version of genetics.. and I certainly don’t claim to have any more than a basic understanding of it.

I know lines can carry recessive genes without ever coming out until they’re paired with another line with the same recessive genes and bam! You randomly have a white or solid black or whatever.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
Yeah, but I’m just saying it’s a lot more complicated than that. For example ...
No, it's not more complicated than that. His question was can a sable come from a B/R and a black. The answer is simply No. In order to be a sable, one of the parents MUST be sable. Sable is a dominant gene.

Sire: a/a (black)
Dam: aw/a (Sable)

"a" is recessive. There must be a copy from each parent and that can carry thru generations without the parents being black.
"aw" is dominant. If the puppy has "aw" it WILL be sable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
and black only passes black.
I've heard more than one person comment recently of a dominant black gene. A friend has a male with the dominant black. I would love to know where that popped up since traditionally black in German Shepherds is recessive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
844 Posts
I've heard more than one person comment recently of a dominant black gene. A friend has a male with the dominant black. I would love to know where that popped up since traditionally black in German Shepherds is recessive.
I don't know about a dominant black gene in GSDs, though I have heard of it. What I meant is that, at least normally, a black gsd will only pass a black gene to its progeny, since it only carries two copies of the black gene... So will only produce blacks or whatever more dominant gene is passed by the other parent, be it sable or black and tan... Or bi-color, if it is actually its own distinct gene, which is far as I know is still not certain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31,100 Posts
Maybe. Unless it's a dominant black. Black that is a/a is recessive so can only pass that. If it's dominant then the other gene could be anything. I would like to know how a "dominant" black can suddenly appear after 125 years without anyone noticing before. Did someone bring in another breed? Is it a genetic mutation?

Bi-color is it's own gene.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top