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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so we are new to using Tylan. I've read that it can be a miracle drug for many dogs with GI issues, but now that my pup is on it, I'm not quite getting the results I had hoped for. Here's the background, some of which I've posted before in other threads.

My mixed GSD pup, Sadie, is almost 8 months old and has been having GI issues since she was 4.5 months old. At that time, she had SIBO (clostridium overgrowth), was given metronidazole for a week and improved, but has never been 100% back to normal like she was before the SIBO. Her poops range from totally normal, to normal then finishing soft-formed, to completely soft-formed, to the occasional pudding-consistency or watery diarrhea.

After the SIBO, we had her on Hills I/D, which she did pretty well on - still some soft poops, but nothing too bad, unless she licked too much grease off the BBQ pit or we didn't trim enough off her occasional rib bone treat, or she traveled with me on a trip and seemed to have stress-induced diarrhea. I stopped giving her Blue Buffalo Puppy Wilderness, which she was eating just fine before the SIBO, because it seemed to make the SIBO worse when I would try to transition back from chicken and rice (before we knew what was causing her diarrhea), and then it seemed to upset her when I tried to transition from the Hills. Tried Taste of the Wild Pacific Stream Puppy, and it seemed to do the same thing. I then tried Nature's Variety Instinct Turkey LID. She was doing OK on that, but still not 100% normal.

A couple weeks ago she had a diarrhea episode so the ER vet referred us to an internal specialist for an ultrasound and complete blood work. We also had a panel sent to the TX A&M lab to test for SIBO and EPI. We didn't do a stool sample at the time because she didn't have anything left in her system to test. Everything came back normal, although her platelet count and magnesium levels were slightly low and phosphorus was slightly high. She went on 5 days of Panacur, just in case giardia was involved (she is on Trifexis and was dewormed after I adopted her when we discovered tapeworms, so the chance it's another parasite is kind of low), even though the vet didn't really think it was giardia since she was eating fine, not losing weight, and her diarrhea wasn't that bad. They also told me to give her 1/8 tbspn of Tylan 2x day for two weeks (she's only about 35-40 lbs), then decrease the dosage to 1x day. They also put her on a GI diet, Royal Canin GI Puppy, which I have been slowly transitioning to over the past week. She also tends to eat a lot of grass and acorns in the yard when I'm not looking.

Well, at first her poops were getting better. The ER vet had her back on metronidazole to stop the diarrhea, but she was only on it for a couple days before the internal specialist prescribed Tylan and told me we really didn't need the metronidazole since she was going to be on another antibiotic. After we stopped the metronidazole, started the Panacur and Tylan, her poops got really soft and light colored again for pretty much the entire 5 days she was on the Panacur. When she had taken Panacur before having SIBO, she had been fine. Although the vet wanted me to stop giving her FortiFlora, which she had been getting everyday since the SIBO, to see what effect the Tylan and new diet would have first, I decided to start giving it to her anyway to see if that would help firm things up. Now, her poops have been getting firmer and looking much better for the past three days or so, but there is still some soft-formed poo mixed in.

Now I know the Tylan may take a while to work, but from what I've read here, it seems to work pretty quickly for most dogs, and Sadie has already been on it for a week and a half, and still not having completely normal poops - it seems like she had normal poops more often before the Tylan. I know her poor tummy has gone through a lot of changes in the past couple of weeks with the different antibiotics, deworming, and food change, so I realize it could just be taking a while to get to normal, but it's still a bit frustrating!

I'm just at a loss to what could be causing her issues since everything appears to be normal. The vet talked about doing a PCR stool analysis if things don't improve after the Panacur/Tylan/diet change. I am a little worried it could be giardia - I know how freaking hard that stuff is to diagnose and get rid of, and that it goes hand-in-hand with SIBO sometimes. Or, maybe, she just developed a food intolerance all of sudden, or it's going to take her tummy a lot of time to recover from the SIBO imbalance.

I guess I'm just wanting to vent right now and wonder if anyone else who has tried Tylan had to wait a while to see significant results. Like, I want to see all normal poop ALL the time. And, less poop, too. She sometimes goes 4 times a day!

Sorry for the length, if you've gotten this far, you should get a cookie! But, I'm sure it's more helpful to give too much information than not enough!
 

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We have been having sim issues with our 7mo old male we've been barreling intermittent diarhea since he was 10 weeks old numerous rounds of metro none of the high end foods or even RAW set well with his stomach except for salmon based products - but even then we never have firm stool. Just picked up yet another round of metro and script food from vet yesterday and fortiflora and ordered Tylan from amazon... Other than the diarrhea and my anxiety over him getting dehydrated he runs plays w his sister a rescue 5 mo old pointer beagle mix who has Zero stomach issues and is on the same food he is ... Praying that tylan is the miracle others say it is my boy is only 55lbs he doesn't look sick but I know he should be bigger - we have no idea who parents are so we don't know how big he should get or if maybe he was the runt of the litter
 

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When you had the EPI test done did they check B12 level? If so what was the result? Also do you give the probiotic away from the antibiotic? Definitely get that acorn eating habit stopped.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Banditsmom - I hope the Tylan works for you. Sadie's been on it for almost two weeks, and I haven't seen a huge difference yet, with the exception of her having fewer potty trips, but her issues may be due to something the Tylan wouldn't fix (like acorn eating, although I know of other dogs who also eat them and seem to be just fine, even though they can be toxic). I'm getting ready to taper down her dosage to 1/8 tsp only 1x day, per the vet's instructions, so maybe a smaller daily dose will help keep it consistently firmer. Tylan does seem like a miracle drug for most dogs, and since you've already seemed to try everything else, it may be exactly what you need. Have you taken him to an internal specialist and/or had blood work and tests for EPI/SIBO done?

TANDB, since she's been getting Tylan with both of her meals, I've started giving the probiotic with her Kong at bedtime, which is about 4 hours after her last meal. If we are home during the day, I may give it to her with a Kong in the middle of the day instead, about 4-5 hours after her first meal and 5-6 hours before her dinner. I'm thinking keeping it at bedtime would be better, since it would have more time during the night to work.

Her B12/Cobalamin level seemed to be normal (test results: >1000 ng/L, no known significance of values within this range) - her Folate, Pancreatic Lipase, and TLI levels were all within the normal range.

It's funny, I've mentioned the acorn eating to both my regular vet and the internist she has been seeing for the tests, and they haven't seemed to be that concerned about it or that it could be the cause of her issues. Even if they weren't toxic, I would still be worried about the sharp pieces (she chews them vs swallowing whole) rupturing her intestines. We have several oaks on our property and there are SO many acorns, it's nearly impossible to get them all. I try to keep her away as much as possible and pull them out of her mouth when I can, but it's a challenge to keep her from eating them completely. :-(
 

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Well it's been 3 weeks since I ordered the tylan, instead of going straight to use it I started adding Metamucil and fortiflora to his meals which worked great for 3 weeks and as of yesterday we are back to cow patty mush- I use two diff vets neither have checked his B12 levels he has been tested for EPI which was negative and Giardia on numerous occasions several rounds of metro just to be on the safe side and the vet said it would firm his stool but it doesn't - I had read a lot about fiber responsive diarrhea so I added the Metamucil- now it's now working so I have him a dose of Tylan this morning- Vet said only definitive way of knowing what's wrong is a $1500 biopsy of his intestines and I'm not sure I want to put him through uness surgery both vets have said his intestines feel fine they don't feel inflamed or in the wrong place- I've also been giving him phytomucil that has slippery elm to help his GI TRACT- all was good until two days ago when I noticed it was starting to have no form and get soft again- I just want my baby to be ok :(
 

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Hi Banditsmom/Saideshumom,
If the following is the "fortiflora" you are currently using, IMHO you should change it. Below are the ingredients and below that explains what "animal digest" is.
Canine Fortiflora by Purina: Animal digest (main ingredient), Enterococcus faecium, L-ascorbyl- 2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, beta-Carotene, salt, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite. B-4582
Animal Digest: is a cooked down substance made from unspecified parts from unspecified animals. Any type of animal can be included such as pigs, goats, horses, rats, companion animals etc. The animal parts can be obtained from any source without control over quality or contamination. Digest can also include intestines, as well as the contents of those intestines, such as stool, bile, parasites and chemicals. “This ingredient is determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized animals.”

I use Bilex: My Holistic Vet says that based on her many years of experience, she does not find “plant-based” vegetarian enzymes as efficient for digestive purposes as she does animal-sourced enzymes because they are more biologically suited for animals that naturally eat other animals (carnivores). This product contains Ox Bile extract which helps stimulate HCI production and pepsin for digestion. It also contains Pancreatin which is an animal-based enzyme providing Protease, Amylase and Lipase. You crush the tablet between two spoons. Bilex 90 Tablets by Douglas Laboratories 90 tablets = $14.00 You would use 1 to 1 1/2 tablets crushed between two spoons per feeding and sprinkled on to his food.


What if you just went back to limited things?

Like just the Nature's Variety and the Bilex or just boiled, boneless, skinless chicken breast mixed with equal parts of canned pumpkin (NO spices added) and the Bilex? And stick with it for about 4 weeks. No commercial treats or bones etc. Maybe his system just needs a bump to turn on his digestion process!

I know you've changed A LOT of foods but if you decide to change again you may want to consider a human grade ingredient product (recognized by the FDA) called The Honest Kitchen Zeal (fish) non-grain dehydrated food. A 10# box (about $90)RE-hydrates to 35 pounds of food.
All Natural Dog Food - Dehydrated Pet Food | The Honest Kitchen
I hope he gets better!
Moms:)
 

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Hi Banditsmom/Saideshumom,
If the following is the "fortiflora" you are currently using, IMHO you should change it. Below are the ingredients and below that explains what "animal digest" is.
Canine Fortiflora by Purina: Animal digest (main ingredient), Enterococcus faecium, L-ascorbyl- 2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, beta-Carotene, salt, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, copper proteinate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite. B-4582
Animal Digest: is a cooked down substance made from unspecified parts from unspecified animals. Any type of animal can be included such as pigs, goats, horses, rats, companion animals etc. The animal parts can be obtained from any source without control over quality or contamination. Digest can also include intestines, as well as the contents of those intestines, such as stool, bile, parasites and chemicals. “This ingredient is determined by the FDA to possibly contain euthanized animals.”

I use Bilex: My Holistic Vet says that based on her many years of experience, she does not find “plant-based” vegetarian enzymes as efficient for digestive purposes as she does animal-sourced enzymes because they are more biologically suited for animals that naturally eat other animals (carnivores). This product contains Ox Bile extract which helps stimulate HCI production and pepsin for digestion. It also contains Pancreatin which is an animal-based enzyme providing Protease, Amylase and Lipase. You crush the tablet between two spoons. Bilex 90 Tablets by Douglas Laboratories 90 tablets = $14.00 You would use 1 to 1 1/2 tablets crushed between two spoons per feeding and sprinkled on to his food.


What if you just went back to limited things?

Like just the Nature's Variety and the Bilex or just boiled, boneless, skinless chicken breast mixed with equal parts of canned pumpkin (NO spices added) and the Bilex? And stick with it for about 4 weeks. No commercial treats or bones etc. Maybe his system just needs a bump to turn on his digestion process!

I know you've changed A LOT of foods but if you decide to change again you may want to consider a human grade ingredient product (recognized by the FDA) called The Honest Kitchen Zeal (fish) non-grain dehydrated food. A 10# box (about $90)RE-hydrates to 35 pounds of food.
All Natural Dog Food - Dehydrated Pet Food | The Honest Kitchen
I hope he gets better!
Moms:)

I stopped the fortiflora and got him a Better one along with a digestive enzyme- funny you should mention ZEAL- all my previous dogs ate raw- bandit can't he has a beef/poultry sensitivity and I used to feel HK to my dogs as well- this morning I ordered a box if Zeal ! Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Banditsmom,

Have you tried a a prescription diet? We've now tested Sadie for just about everything and all tests are normal. They did do two rounds of Panacur just in case it was a parasite like Giardia (which doesn't always respond to metro) that was not being detected on the tests. She recently saw a second internist who switched her from Royal Canin GI Puppy to Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein Diet for allergies/diet intolerance. The unofficial working diagnosis is IBD and/or food allergies. They want to see how she does on this new regimen before doing an intestinal biopsy to confirm.

After a month on the Tylan and switching to yet another diet, she does seem to be improving. Although her stool isn't always as firm as I'd like it to be, it does look pretty normal most of the time, and she goes less frequently overall. Since your boy has food sensitivities, this might help. I know a lot of people don't like the vet prescription diets because of the ingredients, but RC seems to be better than Hills, and I'm willing to try almost anything to see what will work best for my girl. I've seen posts from quite a few people who say their dogs respond better to the cheaper, low quality dog foods! Not that I really want to go there, but I'm hoping this prescription diet will help her get on the right track.

Something else you may want to ask the vet about is Addison's Disease. I believe it tends to be more prevalent in older dogs, but we tested for it anyway just to rule out all the possibilities.

Moms,

Thanks for the info on Fortiflora. I've had my concerns about the "animal digest" and have been on the lookout for an alternative probiotic, but there are so many options out there and it seems a little overwhelming to figure out which one will work the best for your dog!
 

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I stopped the fortiflora and got him a Better one along with a digestive enzyme- funny you should mention ZEAL- all my previous dogs ate raw- bandit can't he has a beef/poultry sensitivity and I used to feel HK to my dogs as well- this morning I ordered a box if Zeal ! Lol
There ya go!!!!:D LOL
Please let us know how he does! Remember, NO commercial treats or bones either. I have a recipe for just meat treats if you would like me to pm you.;)
Here is a nice combination product that I rotate to that has probiotics and digestive enzymes combind. You'll get more bang for your buck with the powder! The Wholistic Pet Raw whole food ingredients with high purity and potency.
Moms:)
 

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So the vet wanted to do a biopsy but Bandit is only 8 mo old and since he's had this problem his whole life so far I know in my gut it's a food sensitivity along w IBS OR IBD- I really didn't want to open him up nor do I want to spend $1500 doing it bc if it is IBS or IBD they are going to treat him w tylan powder anyhow- I switched him to Proviable DC pro biotics and petlabs360 digestive enzymes - took kibble out of the equation- he has a sensitivity to chicken and beef but every kibble he's tried from high to low end causes the runs he does much better on canned BUT almost all canned products have carrageenan in it which seems to have VERY bad outcomes w intestinal inflammations - I should get the zeal today I did 1 day shipping on amazon and ill slowly transition him from pro plan sensitive stomach wet to zeal - all the script diets the vet has prescribed aide blow out diarrhea even on metro so there's got to be SOMETHING in commercial dog food causing this issue- this morning we had completely firm stool thanks to the tylan powder !!!! One happy momma here!
 

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As for the script diets he's been on RC GI PUPPY, RC PV RC hydro allergy, hills GI , purina HA, the problem w all of these except the RC ALLERGY is that they all have chicken fat- no good for Bandits belly- he does the best on fish based foods but I can tell when he has a big issue digesting kibble- and he may not always be like that but wet right now Is easier for him to digest- as I was leaving Petsmart the other day a woman stopped me asked how old he was- she then told me she has a 3 yr old GSD and for the whole 1st year they had nothing but stomach issues and eventually he just grew out of it after she switched him to TOTW- I truly think especially since we got him from a puppy store as a grief purchase the night after we lost my yellow lab of 12 years very unexpectedly- that 1- the breeder or puppy mill the store uses sucks- and 2 GSD have naturally sensitive bellys to begin w that those two issues along w what I feel was WAY over vaccinated by the vet has had bandit in a tummy tail spin from the start- combine that w switching foods metro which interrupts the flora in his gut and it was a recipe for disaster - thank god for this board and finding out about tylan!
 

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Oh- and I've also been giving him Phytomucil 20 min before each meal as its said to have healing properties I'm supposing from the slippery elm to help the gi tract I don't know if its helping or not but ill finish the bottle
 

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There ya go!!!!:D LOL
Please let us know how he does! Remember, NO commercial treats or bones either. I have a recipe for just meat treats if you would like me to pm you.;)
Here is a nice combination product that I rotate to that has probiotics and digestive enzymes combind. You'll get more bang for your buck with the powder! The Wholistic Pet Raw whole food ingredients with high purity and potency.
Moms:)
Thanks for the suggestion- that price is great- right now I'm trying to purchase everything in capsules- soley bc he has to be boarded in October while we are on vacation and with everything he's being given its just easier for the boarder not to have to measure everything out- pet meds will also do tylan capsules w a script from my vet so I plan to order those before we go away- also eases my mind that they won't mis- measure lol
 

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Maverick had SIBO at the same age and we battled the same tummy issues. Tried every dog food out there. EPI was negative but B12 was low. Here is what we currently do:

100% raw, low fat diet. (no skin) We purchase from MyPetCarnivore.com and also feed Nature's Variety. We rotate between 7 different proteins. We found the low fat to be the most important.

Freeze dried treats ONLY, no other starches or fillers.

Animal Essentials Probiotic and Digestive Enzymes everyday, even with the raw.

Support the immune system with extra Vit c a few days each week.

Supplement with Salmon oil and coconut oil each day

Supplement with Slippery elm bark to help repair the lining in the belly (this was temporary)
 

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So the vet wanted to do a biopsy but Bandit is only 8 mo old and since he's had this problem his whole life so far I know in my gut it's a food sensitivity along w IBS OR IBD- I really didn't want to open him up nor do I want to spend $1500 doing it bc if it is IBS or IBD they are going to treat him w tylan powder anyhow- I switched him to Proviable DC pro biotics and petlabs360 digestive enzymes - took kibble out of the equation- he has a sensitivity to chicken and beef but every kibble he's tried from high to low end causes the runs he does much better on canned BUT almost all canned products have carrageenan in it which seems to have VERY bad outcomes w intestinal inflammations - I should get the zeal today I did 1 day shipping on amazon and ill slowly transition him from pro plan sensitive stomach wet to zeal - all the script diets the vet has prescribed aide blow out diarrhea even on metro so there's got to be SOMETHING in commercial dog food causing this issue- this morning we had completely firm stool thanks to the tylan powder !!!! One happy momma here!
WOW!!!! THAT'S pretty drastic!
I think you need to consider a holistic vet! Let me know which state you are in and I can provide a list from AHVMA. This list is the real deal... just "googling" "holistic vet" will NOT get the same quality of Doctors.

Glad you are switching to REAL food! Carrageenen (controversial ingredient linked to serious illnesses). If you are using the "new" Royal Canin prescription food, it's made with........CHICKEN FEATHERS!!!!!
this is what is in that food!:eek:
Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach Ingredients: Salmon, brewers rice(a filler with little to no nutritional value), canola meal (Canola Oil-Like rapeseed oil, its predecessor, canola oil is associated with fibrotic lesions of the heart. It also causes vitamin E deficiency, undesirable changes in the blood platelets and shortened life span in strokeprone rats when it was the only oil in the animals' diet: Weston Price Foundation study), oat meal (grain possible allergen), animal fat (WHAT animal??? cow? elephant? Were these animal euthinized with drugs that do not dissipate with cooking? Determined by the fda that euthanized animals, including companion animals could be in the animal fat ) fish meal (What fish?Purina states fish meal ingredients are preserved withethoxyquin)salmon meal, barley, brewers dried yeast (Yeast for possibly "yeasty dogs?" BIG allergen here! While it's true that quality Brewer's Yeast has B vitamins and trace minerals it's just not good for some dogs! Usually low quality B Yeast that is used in pet foods is from leftover beer brewing) , animal digest (AGAIN mystery animals! Bowel contents with parasites and such are allowed! Recognized by the fda to possibly contain euthanized animals even shelter animals!), menadione sodium bisulfite complex· (Which is synthetic Vitamin K: Can cause: toxic reactions in liver cells, weakens the immune system, induces allergic reactions, can cause abnormal break-down of red blood cells. One company selling menadione warns its human buyers that menadione is “toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organ damage. sciencelab.com)
AND they use GMO ingredients!

Please consider the NutriScan testing instead of a biopsy which should be the last resort!
NutriScan
This test measures antibodies to certain foods in dog saliva. High antibody levels indicate that the dog has a food sensitivity and intolerance to that food or foods. Food intolerance or sensitivity is actually quite common whereas food allergy is rare. In fact, food intolerance is the third most common sensitivity condition in dogs and often can be easily remedied with a change in diet.Dr. Jean Dodds, NutriScan tests for the twenty most commonly ingested foods by dogs to provide you with specific results as to your dog's food intolerances or sensitivities. Since it is a salivary test, you have the convenience to complete the test at home or at your veterinarian’s office. Best of all, you can have the results in approximately two weeks to help you put your dog on the right diet.
Remember, NutriScan is novel and patented and is not testing for food allergies, but rather tests for food sensitivities and intolerance. These are different body immune responses. Food allergy is a more immediate reaction mediated by production of IgE and IgG antibodies. Food sensitivity and intolerance, by contrast, measures a more delayed body response to offending foods by measuring production of IgA and IgM antibodies primarily in mucosal secretions from the bowel.”
NutriScan is split into two test panels, so you can order one or both. I’d order both.
Panel1: Beef, Corn, Wheat, Soy, Cow’s Milk, Lamb, Venison/Deer, Chicken, Turkey, White Fish.
Panel 2: Chicken Eggs, Barley, Millet, Oatmeal, Salmon, Rabbit, Rice, Quinoa, Potatoes, Peanuts/Peanut Butter.
$130 for one panel (10 antigens), $250 for two panels (20 antigens). Vet Allergy test cost about $500 for 20 antigens. Check this page for test differences: NutriScan vs. Skin Patch or Skin Prick Testing
Q. How does this test differ from other food “allergy” tests on serum or feces ?
A. Food allergy tests measure antibodies to IgG and IgE in serum or feces. These are typically more acute allergic reactions to foods, whereas NutriScan measures IgA and IgM antibodies on the bowel’s mucosal surface, and thus more directly correlates to symptoms of bowel (GI tract) disease. http://nutriscan.org/the-nutriscan-difference/faqs.html

“NutriScan is a patented novel saliva test for canine food sensitivity and intolerance.” http://hemopet.org/

“This test measures antibodies to certain foods in dog saliva. High antibody levels indicate that the dog has a food sensitivity and intolerance to that food or foods.”

“Food intolerance or sensitivity is actually quite common whereas food allergy is rare. In fact, food intolerance is the third most common sensitivity condition in dogs and often can be easily remedied with a change in diet. For years, though, the difficulty lay in figuring out what foods were problematic – until now. Nutri-Scan is novel and patented and is not testing for food allergies, but rather tests for food sensitivities and intolerance. These are different body immune responses. Food allergy is a more immediate reaction mediated by production of IgE and IgG antibodies. Food sensitivity and intolerance, by contrast, measures a more delayed body response to offending foods by measuring production of IgA and IgM antibodies primarily in mucosal secretions from the bowel.”
http://www.hemopet.org/nutriscan.html

“In contrast to food allergies, food sensitivity and intolerance is more common and can be a long term reaction.” The NutriScan Difference

For the first time in veterinary history, pets can be diagnosed and treated for food sensitivities on an individual basis. We consider the dog’s age, breed, and size in all of our diagnostic technology. Not all dogs are metabolically and genetically alike and our technology provides for individualized care.” http://nutriscan.org/images/stories/Press_Release_Nutrigenomics.pdf

Nutri-Scan vs Food Elimination Trials: NutriScan vs. Food Elimination Trials
Advantages: http://nutriscan.org/images/stories/NutriScan_ADVANTAGE.pdf
Site showing results from testing: Does the Nutriscan Kit to Solve Dog Food Allergies Work? - Fidose

I personally asked Dr. Dodds how her test was different from Immuneiq which appears to be cheaper and tests more items:

Per Dr. Dodds: “To my knowledge, it (Immuneiq) certainly has not been validated clinically or scientifically for food allergens. There is no other scientifically validated method of detecting food sensitivity and intolerance except for our patented Nutriscan test (now patented worldwide, and for dogs, cats & horses in USA; cats & horses pending overseas). “

BTW, it's been my experience when feeding HK, is to add more water than the recipe indicates. Also make sure you let it "set up" for at least 20-30 minutes before serving. You can make it the nite before and keep in frig for breakfast!

Wishing you the best of luck with your baby!
Moms:)
 

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WOW!!!! THAT'S pretty drastic!
I think you need to consider a holistic vet! Let me know which state you are in and I can provide a list from AHVMA. This list is the real deal... just "googling" "holistic vet" will NOT get the same quality of Doctors.

Glad you are switching to REAL food! Carrageenen (controversial ingredient linked to serious illnesses). If you are using the "new" Royal Canin prescription food, it's made with........CHICKEN FEATHERS!!!!!
this is what is in that food!:eek:
Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach Ingredients: Salmon, brewers rice(a filler with little to no nutritional value), canola meal (Canola Oil-Like rapeseed oil, its predecessor, canola oil is associated with fibrotic lesions of the heart. It also causes vitamin E deficiency, undesirable changes in the blood platelets and shortened life span in strokeprone rats when it was the only oil in the animals' diet: Weston Price Foundation study), oat meal (grain possible allergen), animal fat (WHAT animal??? cow? elephant? Were these animal euthinized with drugs that do not dissipate with cooking? Determined by the fda that euthanized animals, including companion animals could be in the animal fat ) fish meal (What fish?Purina states fish meal ingredients are preserved withethoxyquin)salmon meal, barley, brewers dried yeast (Yeast for possibly "yeasty dogs?" BIG allergen here! While it's true that quality Brewer's Yeast has B vitamins and trace minerals it's just not good for some dogs! Usually low quality B Yeast that is used in pet foods is from leftover beer brewing) , animal digest (AGAIN mystery animals! Bowel contents with parasites and such are allowed! Recognized by the fda to possibly contain euthanized animals even shelter animals!), menadione sodium bisulfite complex· (Which is synthetic Vitamin K: Can cause: toxic reactions in liver cells, weakens the immune system, induces allergic reactions, can cause abnormal break-down of red blood cells. One company selling menadione warns its human buyers that menadione is “toxic to kidneys, lungs, liver, mucous membranes. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organ damage. sciencelab.com)
AND they use GMO ingredients!

Please consider the NutriScan testing instead of a biopsy which should be the last resort!
NutriScan
This test measures antibodies to certain foods in dog saliva. High antibody levels indicate that the dog has a food sensitivity and intolerance to that food or foods. Food intolerance or sensitivity is actually quite common whereas food allergy is rare. In fact, food intolerance is the third most common sensitivity condition in dogs and often can be easily remedied with a change in diet.Dr. Jean Dodds, NutriScan tests for the twenty most commonly ingested foods by dogs to provide you with specific results as to your dog's food intolerances or sensitivities. Since it is a salivary test, you have the convenience to complete the test at home or at your veterinarian’s office. Best of all, you can have the results in approximately two weeks to help you put your dog on the right diet.
Remember, NutriScan is novel and patented and is not testing for food allergies, but rather tests for food sensitivities and intolerance. These are different body immune responses. Food allergy is a more immediate reaction mediated by production of IgE and IgG antibodies. Food sensitivity and intolerance, by contrast, measures a more delayed body response to offending foods by measuring production of IgA and IgM antibodies primarily in mucosal secretions from the bowel.”
NutriScan is split into two test panels, so you can order one or both. I’d order both.
Panel1: Beef, Corn, Wheat, Soy, Cow’s Milk, Lamb, Venison/Deer, Chicken, Turkey, White Fish.
Panel 2: Chicken Eggs, Barley, Millet, Oatmeal, Salmon, Rabbit, Rice, Quinoa, Potatoes, Peanuts/Peanut Butter.
$130 for one panel (10 antigens), $250 for two panels (20 antigens). Vet Allergy test cost about $500 for 20 antigens. Check this page for test differences: NutriScan vs. Skin Patch or Skin Prick Testing
Q. How does this test differ from other food “allergy” tests on serum or feces ?
A. Food allergy tests measure antibodies to IgG and IgE in serum or feces. These are typically more acute allergic reactions to foods, whereas NutriScan measures IgA and IgM antibodies on the bowel’s mucosal surface, and thus more directly correlates to symptoms of bowel (GI tract) disease. http://nutriscan.org/the-nutriscan-difference/faqs.html

“NutriScan is a patented novel saliva test for canine food sensitivity and intolerance.” http://hemopet.org/

“This test measures antibodies to certain foods in dog saliva. High antibody levels indicate that the dog has a food sensitivity and intolerance to that food or foods.”

“Food intolerance or sensitivity is actually quite common whereas food allergy is rare. In fact, food intolerance is the third most common sensitivity condition in dogs and often can be easily remedied with a change in diet. For years, though, the difficulty lay in figuring out what foods were problematic – until now. Nutri-Scan is novel and patented and is not testing for food allergies, but rather tests for food sensitivities and intolerance. These are different body immune responses. Food allergy is a more immediate reaction mediated by production of IgE and IgG antibodies. Food sensitivity and intolerance, by contrast, measures a more delayed body response to offending foods by measuring production of IgA and IgM antibodies primarily in mucosal secretions from the bowel.”
http://www.hemopet.org/nutriscan.html

“In contrast to food allergies, food sensitivity and intolerance is more common and can be a long term reaction.” The NutriScan Difference

For the first time in veterinary history, pets can be diagnosed and treated for food sensitivities on an individual basis. We consider the dog’s age, breed, and size in all of our diagnostic technology. Not all dogs are metabolically and genetically alike and our technology provides for individualized care.” http://nutriscan.org/images/stories/Press_Release_Nutrigenomics.pdf

Nutri-Scan vs Food Elimination Trials: NutriScan vs. Food Elimination Trials
Advantages: http://nutriscan.org/images/stories/NutriScan_ADVANTAGE.pdf
Site showing results from testing: Does the Nutriscan Kit to Solve Dog Food Allergies Work? - Fidose

I personally asked Dr. Dodds how her test was different from Immuneiq which appears to be cheaper and tests more items:

Per Dr. Dodds: “To my knowledge, it (Immuneiq) certainly has not been validated clinically or scientifically for food allergens. There is no other scientifically validated method of detecting food sensitivity and intolerance except for our patented Nutriscan test (now patented worldwide, and for dogs, cats & horses in USA; cats & horses pending overseas). “

BTW, it's been my experience when feeding HK, is to add more water than the recipe indicates. Also make sure you let it "set up" for at least 20-30 minutes before serving. You can make it the nite before and keep in frig for breakfast!

Wishing you the best of luck with your baby!
Moms:)

THANK YOU- :) all my previous dogs were switched from kibble and fed raw or HK PREFERENCE- with raw- I'd prefer to feed raw but bandit just can't handle it- I find also adding extra water and letting it sit overnight works best w HK

I am not a fan of commercial kibble or cans but to keep weight on bandit the only thing he can handle is wet - an if I think those ingredients are bad in pro plan have you SEEN the ingredients in script canned food??? Omg !!!! My 6 mo old rescue lab/pointer/beagle mix is thriving on raw and pro plan - I have to feed both bc our boarder won't do REAL raw so I keep her on a diet of both so that there's never a GI issue when we board-

I am so glad to see firm poop today! Bandit doesn't get any treats at all- thank god he's ball driven and his training has been effortless- they get ELK bones for chew toys - nothing made in china- and nothing w Stuffing anymore bc Bandit murders them :)

I am going to make up frozen HK zeal kongs for him tho- he is my problem child but worth EVERY SINGLE penny--- :)
 

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Also we do use two vets one real vet and one holistic vet- the holistic vet had suggested the phytomucil the real vet wanted to biopsy - and I see ZERO reason to do that- he's a puppy who had a really rough start- god only knows about hi breeder or his parents lineage - but even when he has diarrhea he's never a sad boy he runs and plays drinks and eats w zero problem- it's me who cringes about his loose stool- he doesn't seem to care LOL- but momma knows that's not good for his belly- and I've spent thousands on tests and research to get my boy in good health
 
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