[CAROLINM]

Hello,
My pup is 7 months, so far he was fed with ProPlan for a long time, and now I am feeding Diamond Naturals Large Breed. The first one made him itchy and his stools were never too firm. Now on Diamond Naturals his weigh increased, he stopped being itchy, but his stool is not firm yet.
Now, our, pup is kind of delicate (he had parvo when he was younger), but his vet thinks he should be weighing more, he is like 71 lb and they say he needs at least 9 pounds more. He is lean, and I believe at least 5 or 6 lb would not hurt. Anyway, I get diamond naturals online, from a website in Mexico City, but I live in a city in the north, and I would love to feed something locally available, would be much easier, and I would not be so stressed with delivery… Locally I can get Proplan, Royal Canin, Canidae Pure Foundations, Tier (Mexican brand first two ingredients are meal of chicken, and meal of fish), Lideratto (first ingredient meal of chicken and beef), Merrick and Instinct for ALS.
I am debating myself between:
Tier: First three ingredients are Meal of chicken and bone, meal of fish and bone, rice….. holistic food (really nice reviews). Has good levels of calcium and phosphorus.
Instinct: First ingredient is chicken meal, then tapioca… It is grain-free and that sort of scares me not sure why, I think protein is in a huge percentage.
Canidae Pure foundations puppy: First two ingredients are meals, third and fouth lentils and peas… Calcium is 1.6%.... Also grain free around 30% of protein…
I have also been considering Costco Kirkland foods (grain free or not)…





Any advice? Is there anyone feeding Instinct, if so, how much would a pup eat?

 

[Sabis mom]

If you want to shop local rather then ship, and I get that, go with the Proplan.
Let me explain. Purina has been around a long time. They have dodged any serious bad press. No it isn't top notch food, but they have responded to market pressure and it isnt exactly garbage either.
Your pup has had some issues and switching foods has not been a good thing for him. The loose stools could be an indication of issues with high protein or it could be you overfeeding in an attempt to fatten him up.
Personally I like lean dogs. And growing puppies tend to go through lanky skinny phases.
Kirkland if its available to you is a good food that loads of people recommend. It seems to me that it was one of the foods I couldn't use because of flax. With either choice watch the recommended feeding amounts. It seems to me that a few people found them high.

 

[McGloomy]

If I'm not mistaken, Pro Plan has corn wheat and soy in the ingredients? As it happens, my dog was once on Iams and Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy. I tried Iams once for my dog (I remember it was a minor emergency, we had run out of food and it was one of the only ones in the supermarket). My dog was on it a whole month until we finished the bag. It was actually quite alright, he liked it, his stools were firm, hi energy level was okay too. However... His coat turned dull and flaky. It was really obvious to the eyes. And he shed so much more than usual. I suppose it was the corn or something. So from then on, I'd never bought food that has those 3 ingredients. And I was right. When he was back on food with no corn wheat and soy, his coat went to being shiny and basically just looked good.

While he was on Diamond Naturals though, everything BUT his stools were fine. We finished a whole 40lb bag and his stools were almost NEVER firm; just soft but not diarrhea-liquidy. It wasn't fun for me to clean up everyday. Also he wasn't fond of the food, he only ate it because he was hungry I think. So I never bought lamb flavour after that. Anyways what I'm trying to say is your pup isn't the only one that has soft stools on Diamond Naturals LBP, my pup was too.

I've heard good things about Instinct. But it's not on my price range. I now feed Victor, after the reviews I've read here in this forum. Happy with it. I don't know if you can find it where you are or not.

Lastly... Try tinned pumpkin puree. It does wonders for dogs who have soft stools. 2 big tbs a day should do. Usually you can see the result in less than a week. I highly suggest you try it out on your pup. My pup is very prone to diarrhea (fecal test came back negative) but ever since I came across Pumpkin puree, I've never had to take my boy to the vet because of diarrhea anymore.

 

[barnyard]

If he's itchy, you might try a protein switch. Pro plan sensitive has salmon and no corn, wheat or soy.
I fed instinct for a short time to my senior girl who recently passed. We used rabbit and it didn't work for her as it gave her loose stools. But she was allergic to a lot of things so it's hard to know. Some of the instinct brands are high in ash and grain free might be an issue now with some dogs (see the threads on cardiomyopathy) so take that into consideration.

 

[Malibu]

If you want to shop local rather then ship, and I get that, go with the Proplan.
Let me explain. Purina has been around a long time. They have dodged any serious bad press. No it isn't top notch food, but they have responded to market pressure and it isnt exactly garbage either.
Your pup has had some issues and switching foods has not been a good thing for him. The loose stools could be an indication of issues with high protein or it could be you overfeeding in an attempt to fatten him up.
Personally I like lean dogs. And growing puppies tend to go through lanky skinny phases.
Kirkland if its available to you is a good food that loads of people recommend. It seems to me that it was one of the foods I couldn't use because of flax. With either choice watch the recommended feeding amounts. It seems to me that a few people found them high.

Proplan IMO is NOT your answer

 

[CAROLINM]

If you want to shop local rather then ship, and I get that, go with the Proplan.
Let me explain. Purina has been around a long time. They have dodged any serious bad press. No it isn't top notch food, but they have responded to market pressure and it isnt exactly garbage either.
Your pup has had some issues and switching foods has not been a good thing for him. The loose stools could be an indication of issues with high protein or it could be you overfeeding in an attempt to fatten him up.
Personally I like lean dogs. And growing puppies tend to go through lanky skinny phases.
Kirkland if its available to you is a good food that loads of people recommend. It seems to me that it was one of the foods I couldn't use because of flax. With either choice watch the recommended feeding amounts. It seems to me that a few people found them high.

I would not be sure about going back to ProPlan he was really itchy with it (not sure if the corn or the chicken). I meant, his hair looked great, but he would not raise his weigh for a long time, and his stools were not that firm either.


So, Kirkland dog food might be nice? (there is a Costco that carries that and Purina One I think).


With the overfeeding, we might have done that before, also he has had all parasites possible I think, and sometimes my parents give him extra. He is always hungry, and he loves all food.

 

[Sabis mom]

I forgot you had tried the proplan before. Yes I would give the kirkland a go then. If he is a food hound then simply reduce his kibble a bit to compensate for the food you know he will con you out of.

 

[CAROLINM]

If I'm not mistaken, Pro Plan has corn wheat and soy in the ingredients? As it happens, my dog was once on Iams and Diamond Naturals Large Breed Puppy. I tried Iams once for my dog (I remember it was a minor emergency, we had run out of food and it was one of the only ones in the supermarket). My dog was on it a whole month until we finished the bag. It was actually quite alright, he liked it, his stools were firm, hi energy level was okay too. However... His coat turned dull and flaky. It was really obvious to the eyes. And he shed so much more than usual. I suppose it was the corn or something. So from then on, I'd never bought food that has those 3 ingredients. And I was right. When he was back on food with no corn wheat and soy, his coat went to being shiny and basically just looked good.

While he was on Diamond Naturals though, everything BUT his stools were fine. We finished a whole 40lb bag and his stools were almost NEVER firm; just soft but not diarrhea-liquidy. It wasn't fun for me to clean up everyday. Also he wasn't fond of the food, he only ate it because he was hungry I think. So I never bought lamb flavour after that. Anyways what I'm trying to say is your pup isn't the only one that has soft stools on Diamond Naturals LBP, my pup was too.

I've heard good things about Instinct. But it's not on my price range. I now feed Victor, after the reviews I've read here in this forum. Happy with it. I don't know if you can find it where you are or not.

Lastly... Try tinned pumpkin puree. It does wonders for dogs who have soft stools. 2 big tbs a day should do. Usually you can see the result in less than a week. I highly suggest you try it out on your pup. My pup is very prone to diarrhea (fecal test came back negative) but ever since I came across Pumpkin puree, I've never had to take my boy to the vet because of diarrhea anymore.

Yes, my dog is a diarrhea pup haha... He would eat anything (he is always hungry)....

Well Instinct and Canidae are within the same price range here for the 24lb (they would be like $60-70 american dollars), because they are always on sale at the local petco...

ProPlan and Royal Canin are more popular, so they are like $100-120 american dollars for the 30lb bag.

So I do wonder if I might feed a less amount with Instinct or something, it might make some sense in my budget...

Will try the pumpkin today, thank you.... I dont think I have seen Victor here, what kind of ingredients does it have?

 

[CAROLINM]

If he's itchy, you might try a protein switch. Pro plan sensitive has salmon and no corn, wheat or soy.
I fed instinct for a short time to my senior girl who recently passed. We used rabbit and it didn't work for her as it gave her loose stools. But she was allergic to a lot of things so it's hard to know. Some of the instinct brands are high in ash and grain free might be an issue now with some dogs (see the threads on cardiomyopathy) so take that into consideration.

Would that ProPlan be okay for him even if is still under a year old?


Yes, I have my hesitations with a grain free so rich in protein like Instinct. I am trying to find something with rice for him (but avoiding corn and soy).

 

[Momto2GSDs]

Hi CAROLINM,
If you are going to switch kibble, find one that does not contain ANY type of CHICKEN products.....meat, meal, cartilage, fat, eggs etc.


Many MANY dogs are sensitive to chicken which can cause them itching or loose stool. So it may be worth a try to find a limited one protein food without any of the above in it. Other things that dog's are sensitive to:
Grains of all kinds (including oatmeal and oatmeal shampoo!), even some of the "Non-Gluten" grains, Lentils/Pea items, Potatoes, Flax seed or oil, certain Fish and Yeast supplements. But no CHICKEN is a good place to start.


Also a human grade digestive enzyme (helps to assimilate food) and a probiotic (puts the good bacteria in the gut) can be a great help. Over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is VERY important to keep it healthy.



Giving a capsule of "Slippery Elm" (found a local health food store or on iherb.com) an hour before feeding can also help. It coats the lining of the gut.



Moms

 

[barnyard]

I think the sensitive skin would be ok at 7 months but I would check with company. But if it is so expensive there, I'd probably look for another option. Regarding Canidae I would hesitate feeding anything with peas or lentils in the first 5 ingredients for now anyway. Costco foods could be a good choice. The Diamond Naturals is made by the same company as the Costco foods. If he's not itchy on the chicken then that could be a good choice. It's for adult dogs, but there's a puppy formula as well. I really like the Nature's Domain Salmon, but until the cardiomyopathy issue is figured out I can't recommend going with a grain free food for now.
If your local foods are good, then I think that would be a good option as well.

 

[Sabis mom]

Hi CAROLINM,
If you are going to switch kibble, find one that does not contain ANY type of CHICKEN products.....meat, meal, cartilage, fat, eggs etc.


Many MANY dogs are sensitive to chicken which can cause them itching or loose stool. So it may be worth a try to find a limited one protein food without any of the above in it. Other things that dog's are sensitive to:
Grains of all kinds (including oatmeal and oatmeal shampoo!), even some of the "Non-Gluten" grains, Lentils/Pea items, Potatoes, Flax seed or oil, certain Fish and Yeast supplements. But no CHICKEN is a good place to start.


Also a human grade digestive enzyme (helps to assimilate food) and a probiotic (puts the good bacteria in the gut) can be a great help. Over 75% of the immune system lies in the gut so it is VERY important to keep it healthy.



Giving a capsule of "Slippery Elm" (found a local health food store or on iherb.com) an hour before feeding can also help. It coats the lining of the gut.



Moms

Going to respectfully disagree. Shadow is sensitive to both beef and fish but is fine with chicken and the OP has had her dog on other proteins with the same itchy skin. I would not rule out chicken and given where she lives it is highly possible that the itchies are environmental related. Oats also were found to be a non issue for Shadow, but she is sensitive to both flax and seemingly rice.

 

[McGloomy]

Victor Select Nutra Pro Active Dog & Puppy Formula Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Beef Meal, Whole Grain Millet, Blood Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Pork Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Feeding Oat Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.

As you can see, the 1st 5 ingredients alone are meat meal. Top notch dry food tend to have multi protein in the 1st 5 ingredients (not recommended for dogs with food allergy, though dogs with food allergy are actually quite rare.) Apart from Victor, should you want to change his food, I also recommend Pro Pac Large Breed Puppy and Taste of the Wild. Definitely NOT ROYAL CANIN.

Bottom line in my opinion just try not to feed dry food with corn wheat or soy. I personally don't feed by-products as well.

Give it a go with the pumpkin puree and see how he does within a week. If he's still having soft stools, you might wanna change his food. Honestly it takes some time for a dog owner to really find dry food that agrees with the dog.

 

[Sabis mom]

@McGloomy. I don't know that Victor is available to her. That is one of her concerns. Most of the foods recommended need to be shipped and she is not comfortable with that.

 

[Jenny720]

What is blood meal?

 

[McGloomy]

'Blood meal increases the overall protein content of the dog food. Blood meal is typically a dry powder that is used in dog food to extend the protein source within the food.'

I think Victor Ultra Pro also has blood meal. And I think it's what makes Victor Nutra Pro so smelly.

 

[McGloomy]

@McGloomy. I don't know that Victor is available to her. That is one of her concerns. Most of the foods recommended need to be shipped and she is not comfortable with that.

Right, yeah. That's why I wrote the 'Bottom line.' Find the best one that's accessible to her.

 

[CAROLINM]

Going to respectfully disagree. Shadow is sensitive to both beef and fish but is fine with chicken and the OP has had her dog on other proteins with the same itchy skin. I would not rule out chicken and given where she lives it is highly possible that the itchies are environmental related. Oats also were found to be a non issue for Shadow, but she is sensitive to both flax and seemingly rice.

'Given where I live'? What does it meant?


I really do not think it is chicken, yes he was itchy with ProPlan (chicken protein mainly), and he has not been itchy with Diamond Naturals (lamb protein mainly), but it could be the corn/soy/or wheat.



A few weeks ago we fed him with just chicken and rice (cooked by us) and just a little of kibble for a couple of days, and he got the most firm stools ever. So, probably not the chicken.



Thanks by the way.



Is it really that bad to feed grain free?

 

[CAROLINM]

Victor Select Nutra Pro Active Dog & Puppy Formula Dry Dog Food, 40-lb bag
Nutritional Info
Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Beef Meal, Whole Grain Millet, Blood Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols), Menhaden Fish Meal (source of DHA-Docosahexaenoic Acid), Pork Meal, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Flax Seed (source of Omega 3 Fatty Acid), Feeding Oat Meal, Yeast Culture, Natural Chicken Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Dried Kelp, Salt, Montmorillonite, Tomato Pomace (source of Lycopene), Dried Carrot, Choline Chloride, Dried Chicory Root, Taurine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Hydrolyzed Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Selenium Yeast, L-Carnitine, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Biotin, Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Riboflavin Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Lecithin, Fructooligosaccharide, Folic Acid, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.

As you can see, the 1st 5 ingredients alone are meat meal. Top notch dry food tend to have multi protein in the 1st 5 ingredients (not recommended for dogs with food allergy, though dogs with food allergy are actually quite rare.) Apart from Victor, should you want to change his food, I also recommend Pro Pac Large Breed Puppy and Taste of the Wild. Definitely NOT ROYAL CANIN.

Bottom line in my opinion just try not to feed dry food with corn wheat or soy. I personally don't feed by-products as well.

Give it a go with the pumpkin puree and see how he does within a week. If he's still having soft stools, you might wanna change his food. Honestly it takes some time for a dog owner to really find dry food that agrees with the dog.

Sounds like it has a huge percentage of protein. Is beef meal a good protein?
Thanks.

 

[CAROLINM]

I think the sensitive skin would be ok at 7 months but I would check with company. But if it is so expensive there, I'd probably look for another option. Regarding Canidae I would hesitate feeding anything with peas or lentils in the first 5 ingredients for now anyway. Costco foods could be a good choice. The Diamond Naturals is made by the same company as the Costco foods. If he's not itchy on the chicken then that could be a good choice. It's for adult dogs, but there's a puppy formula as well. I really like the Nature's Domain Salmon, but until the cardiomyopathy issue is figured out I can't recommend going with a grain free food for now.
If your local foods are good, then I think that would be a good option as well.

I was looking at that food from Costco the one of Salmon and sweet potato...But is it really that bad grain free?