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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure everyone knows of the trick where you put a treat on the dog's nose and then have them wait for you to give the release word(or signal) and then they flip it up into the air and catch it. Chrono knows how to do this very well, so much so that I can put a full steak on his nose and he'll balance it and wait until I say 'okay' before he flips it up and eats it. But I've had quite a few people tell me it's cruel.

Does anyone else think this is a cruel or mean trick?
 

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I don't understand why anyone would think that this is a "cruel" or "mean" trick - after all, the dog knows WHAT the reward is for the behavior AND that he will get the reward for doing the behavior. How's that any different from asking the dog to sit before you feed him or having him sit before going out the door for a walk? Behavior = reward.
 

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Teaching a dog not to eat something until released to do so could save his life. Having it on his nose just shows his level of control. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I don't understand why anyone would think that this is a "cruel" or "mean" trick - after all, the dog knows WHAT the reward is for the behavior AND that he will get the reward for doing the behavior. How's that any different from asking the dog to sit before you feed him or having him sit before going out the door for a walk? Behavior = reward.
Those are exactly my thoughts! But I still get people going, "Oh that's so cruel, don't do that to the poor dog." Even some people who own dogs have told me that I'm mean for doing it. :(
 

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Absolutley not!

I think it's great if a dog can take a command so well. That really shows a dog's concentration, self control, and obedience. Then the people must think it's mean to be preparing dinner in front of the dog too, and they probably have really fat dogs! Whether it's on the counter top, or on their nose, I'm sure they still want it just as bad.
 

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Ask Achielles...her dog could hold a whole hot dog in his mouth and not eat it until released! He loved food too!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It is not mean at all!!! Matter of fact how did you teach him to do such?
I kind of trained him wrong, because 'leave it' is, I guess, supposed to mean to leave something alone completely. What I accidentally did was make 'leave it' a kind of situational command. When I tell him to 'leave it' while I'm placing the 'it' on his body, it basically means "Don't eat this/put it in your mouth." Any other time, it means 'stay away from it'.

I trained him to do the trick by saying 'leave it', and putting a treat on his nose for like a second, and then giving him the release word. Then eventually increasing the time between 'leave it' and the release word. I was always putting treats somewhere on his body and telling him to 'leave it' so this wasn't too much different, just a little more tempting.

He never started doing the 'flip' thing until recently. He'd just lower his nose and the treat would slide off his nose and hit the ground, and then he'd eat it. So if he did that before I gave him the release word, I could snatch the treat from him before he got it. Eventually he understood that if he waited until the release word, he'd get the treat. If he didn't wait, no treat!

I just kept upping up the treat value until I was putting steaks on his nose and pancakes on his head. Now I can rev up his ball drive, and then tell him to 'leave it' and then rub the ball around his mouth and gums and he won't go for it until I say 'okay'.

A good 'leave it' is vital to me, he has high prey drive and I have a house full of birds and cats. He only annoys the cats right now, but I know he would completely massacre my birds if given the chance.

Ask Achielles...her dog could hold a whole hot dog in his mouth and not eat it until released! He loved food too!
Woow I'd LOVE to be able to get Chrono to do that!
 

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Definitely not cruel! They're probably just jealous because their dog doesn't have as good self control. ;)

My Golden knew this trick, but I could never manage to teach her the part where they flip the treat up and catch it. When I told her "ok!" she'd just lower her nose so the treat fell on the ground, then pick it up.

 

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I am not about humanizing animals, but if someone put an ice cream sundae on top of my nose and told me to wait, well, I don't think that would be all that fun. Then if they clapped or laughed when I managed to tip it up and get it in my mouth, well, I do not think that would be all that fun either.

But that is why we should never try to humanize animals. If your dog appears to like it, whatever.

I don't do this because I so not see it as a life skill. I teach my dogs to LEAVE IT, and then NEVER give them the item I told them to LEAVE, but I might give them a treat instead.

I do not make my dogs sit and wait for their dinner either. So long as I have both my hands and all my fingers, I am perfectly happy with how they have their dinner and treats delivered.
 

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I am not about humanizing animals, but if someone put an ice cream sundae on top of my nose and told me to wait, well, I don't think that would be all that fun. Then if they clapped or laughed when I managed to tip it up and get it in my mouth, well, I do not think that would be all that fun either.
Well, it would be more like a dry biscuit/cracker than a sundae.
I'm sure you wouldn't think it was fun if you were told to STAY when you wanted to go somewhere or told to LEAVE IT when there was a delicious cake nearby either. Personally I'd be happy I got to eat the treat, even if I had to wait a little while, versus being told to LEAVE IT and then having it taken away (as people often do when they tell their dogs to leave something.)

It's just another form of stay/leave it.
 

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No it's not mean I love watching them go cross eyed:D
EXACTLY!!!! hehe!!!

Ask Achielles...her dog could hold a whole hot dog in his mouth and not eat it until released! He loved food too!
never happen with my dogs... these guys sneak into the pantry and steal cans of CLOSED tuna! (and share with the cats when they gets them open)

Definitely not cruel! They're probably just jealous because their dog doesn't have as good self control. ;)

My Golden knew this trick, but I could never manage to teach her the part where they flip the treat up and catch it. When I told her "ok!" she'd just lower her nose so the treat fell on the ground, then pick it up.

Thats what Zena used to do.

I dont think its cruel. They have to work for it. they're working dogs. Its what they do.
 

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Oh yes :) Achielles was a chow hound! He would do anything for lint if it had been in a pocket with food!

I don't think it is mean or cruel. It is another control command.

I taught Achielles to hold food (hot dog, chicken, whatever - but usually hot dogs because they look so silly sticking out the end of their mouths like a cigar lol) very nearly the same way.

I had taught a retrieve and started out by giving the "take it" "hold" "leave it" commands in succession. If he tried to eat it before I released, well, I went after it lol He learned the only way to get it was to wait until I said he could.

Gawd I miss that dog. *sigh*

Hmmmm May have to start working on Hella, Moxie and Jinx to do this one too! I miss having that trick in my bag to show off lol
 

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whike its not cruel, i think its un dignified to do that to a GSD
 
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