[Mickeynads]

Hi i have a question for all you lovely GSD lovers out there..

I met a dog trainer yesterday for the first time with my 7 month old dog.
We took a little walk and talked about whats going on with him (dog) and what training i wanted to do.

My GSD pulls a lot on the lead and is very protective. what i mean by protective is if someone walks up and talks to me he barks and sometimes pulls towards them. he doesn't show his teeth to them he just barks.
Now i've never let him get close to someone to see if he would snap or try and bite them, anyways we went over that and the trainer said to me that he wants to spend an hour a day for the first 3 days with the dog and me and then after that for a week he wants to turn up and pick my dog up and take him and train him without me (an hour per day) and after the week he is going to show me what to do.

SO my question is has anyone ever done something like that???
Me personnaly i don't like the idea of some guy taking my boy away for an hour without me and i was thinking its best if i was there from the get go as its me he has to listen to for the rest of his life.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Castlemaid]

Go with your gut - a good trainer will do wonders training YOU to train your dog! I would not agree to this either. Why does he want to have the dog without you?
Makes no sense to me. It is more important that YOU learn how to work with your dog and how to handle him - to fix certain behaviour problems, I would put my money in private lessons instead.

 

[Rerun]

Weird circumstances IMHO. You should, at the very least, be present.

Some trainers do take dogs in for "in kennel training" in which the dog lives on their property, they work with it several times a day, and then after x amount of time they train you to work with the dog. But I've never heard of one just picking it up and leaving for an hr, then returning. No, I wouldn't allow this.

In kennel training is different IMHO. The dog lives with the person or interacts with them multiple times a day. Many on this forum will tell you the dog may get trained, but will revert once back with you. this is not true, if you are with a qualified and professional trainer and dedicated to learning. It's easier to learn with a dog that already has a foundation laid than it is for two newbies (you and the dog) to go from A - Z. If the trainer teaches the dog the behaviors and commands, you simply need to learn proper implementation and corrections/rewards. Many dogs are pre-trained for someone who wouldn't be able to train the dog themselves, but can certainly learn to continue the training (such as service dogs, police dogs, etc).

 

[Stosh]

I agree, I wouldn't let anyone take my dog, who knows what the guy will be doing? There's no reason why he can't teach you how to train your dog.

 

[onyx'girl]

No way would I let a trainer take my dog unless I had a very trusting relationship, but then most of the trainers I know would train me along with my dog, so it wouldn't ever happen!
Especially since your pup is only 7 months old, not set in his ways and there is nothing in his temperament that a strong handler can't work thru.
The age is the stage most often that is difficult, pup is gaining independence, but not mature enough to assess situations, so reactive behavior begins. It is up to the owner to show the pup he doesn't have to react.
Even if this were a mature dog that had behavioral issues I still wouldn't allow it.

 

[codmaster]

Ditto to the above - no need for the trainer to take the dog away from you. You want the trainer to show YOU how to train your dog.

 

[Mickeynads]

Hi everyone
THANK you very much for the info and advise.
i'm going to go with my gut and you guys on this and not let anyone take my boy away for an hour or even 10 mins ;-) as soon as he said that to me i didn't think it was right and the more i think about it the more i don't like the idea.

I'm not 100% sure i understand what kennel training is? I think its like the big travel box that you let him sleep????? anyways i don't have one of them (if that is it) i just wanted some help with his barking at strangers and to get him to stop pulling as he's already pretty good at doing tricks (sit, down, leave it -for food & everything-, roll, high five right/left paw, jump, speak and i can even shoot him with my finger and he plays dead.) i just can't seem to get him to stop the barking and pulling.

So i think i'm going to give this guy a miss and find someone else to help and read through the forum a lot more

Has anyone had this problem with their GSD and do you have any tips???
BIG thanks again for the info guys

 

[Whiteshepherds]

Don't you wonder what kind of training he'll be doing and why you can't be there to see it?

I wouldn't do it.

 

[Jax's Mom]

Don't you wonder what kind of training he'll be doing and why you can't be there to see it?

Not really, it's much faster and easier to train a dog by beating the tar out of them, into sbmission. It's just something no owner could ever stomach seeing being done to their pet.
I'd never do it or recommend anyone else do it... a neighbor or mine had a dog trained that way... the results were excellent but sad at the same time when you wondered what must have been done to the dog

 

[Mickeynads]

Don't you wonder what kind of training he'll be doing and why you can't be there to see it?

I wouldn't do it.

Hi i think you need to read all the comments on this page as like i said i didn't want to let him take him.

FYI
This is my first GSD (& dog) so i really don't know how the training side of things work so thats why i signed up to a place like this to find out from people with lots of experience to give me some advise about it as its the first ever trainer i had talked to and like i said above when he told me that he wanted to take my dog i didn't like the idea and i was wondering if that was something a lot of trainers do and like the great guys above also informed me it was NOT.

 

[Mickeynads]

Not really, it's much faster and easier to train a dog by beating the tar out of them, into sbmission. It's just something no owner could ever stomach seeing being done to their pet.
I'd never do it or recommend anyone else do it... a neighbor or mine had a dog trained that way... the results were excellent but sad at the same time when you wondered what must have been done to the dog

That's something i would definitively never do to my dog, i can't even imagine that being done to my little boy, i love him too bits to ever do that to him. I got him when he was 2 months and i could teach him within a month all the tricks i named above only thanks to the great bond we have together (and loads of sweets as well lol ;-) ) and also our mutual love.
The only thing i could not fix with him yet is his barking towards strangers and my vet told me that if he carries on, i would have to call a trainer since he can turn up to be a potential dangerous dog (he will be about 133 pounds when he is an adult so potentially out of control with that weight if he pulls toward someone to bite them). Therefore, i have met up with that trainer but i couldn't stand the idea to have my dog taken away from me, thats why i am here today, to know if that's something normal to do or not, obviously not so i was right to refuse his proposition and i am glad about it. I am going to see the group lessons, someone gave me a phone number of another good trainer that can fix some aggression problems towards people so hopefully, it will work.
I am not trying to change the GSD's nature, they are instinctively very protective, but just trying to make him understand that there's some rules and he doesn't need to protect me when someone comes and talk to me...

 

[PaddyD]

Another point of view. If you can get references and I mean several and they are unanimous, I don't see a problem with an hour a day. It's not as though he is taking the dog and that the dog will bond with him. Kind of makes me think of Cesar taking a dog away to get him settled down. We have a dog walker come every day yet our dog is still OUR dog. Keep an open mind and get those references, THEN go with your gut.

 

[Rerun]

Hi everyone
THANK you very much for the info and advise.
i'm going to go with my gut and you guys on this and not let anyone take my boy away for an hour or even 10 mins ;-) as soon as he said that to me i didn't think it was right and the more i think about it the more i don't like the idea.

I'm not 100% sure i understand what kennel training is? I think its like the big travel box that you let him sleep????? anyways i don't have one of them (if that is it) i just wanted some help with his barking at strangers and to get him to stop pulling as he's already pretty good at doing tricks (sit, down, leave it -for food & everything-, roll, high five right/left paw, jump, speak and i can even shoot him with my finger and he plays dead.) i just can't seem to get him to stop the barking and pulling.

So i think i'm going to give this guy a miss and find someone else to help and read through the forum a lot more

Has anyone had this problem with their GSD and do you have any tips???
BIG thanks again for the info guys

If you're referring to my post referencing "in kennel training" - that's when the take your dog to their house (most trainers have a kennel setup) and they work with the dog several times a day. It's called in kennel training.

Crate training is when you teach your dog to be calm in a crate in your house for sleeping or when you're away (work, errands, etc).

 

[Rerun]

Not really, it's much faster and easier to train a dog by beating the tar out of them, into sbmission. It's just something no owner could ever stomach seeing being done to their pet.
I'd never do it or recommend anyone else do it... a neighbor or mine had a dog trained that way... the results were excellent but sad at the same time when you wondered what must have been done to the dog

That's absolutely ridiculous.

There are a number of reasons the trainer may not want the owner there. First and formost it may simply be because the owner doesn't realize that a negative impact they are having on their dog. They may get nervous now each time a person approaches and be sending the wrong signals to the dog. 99% of owners don't even realize this. They think they are remaining calm, assertive, and correcting the dog properly when in reality they are tense, nervous, and contributing to the behavior.

It is one heck of an assumption that because the owner isn't there the trainer is going to beat the dog.

 

[Mickeynads]

Another point of view. If you can get references and I mean several and they are unanimous, I don't see a problem with an hour a day. It's not as though he is taking the dog and that the dog will bond with him. Kind of makes me think of Cesar taking a dog away to get him settled down. We have a dog walker come every day yet our dog is still OUR dog. Keep an open mind and get those references, THEN go with your gut.

Hey, thanks for your reply.
But Cesar takes RED case dogs away as they need to learn pack rules and its better for them and easier for them to learn.
Now i've not seen all of his shows but most of them i have seen is with him teaching the owner plus the dog on how to act together.
As for the references hes only been in Montpellier for 2 months, he's been doing the training (in Spain) for 4 years so he says, so cant really get them from him.

 

[Mickeynads]

If you're referring to my post referencing "in kennel training" - that's when the take your dog to their house (most trainers have a kennel setup) and they work with the dog several times a day. It's called in kennel training.

Crate training is when you teach your dog to be calm in a crate in your house for sleeping or when you're away (work, errands, etc).

Hey Rerun yeah i was referring to your post sorry should have put your name thanks for clearing that up always wondered about it but never checked up on it. thanks again.

 

[selzer]

While there is no way to know they will abuse the dog, there is no way to know that they will not.

I do agree that dogs will act very differently without the owner present. A set up like this would be great, training at a facility that has a two way mirror. They have them for people to do out of sight stays. They go off to the room and watch the dogs stay. You could watch the training going on, and know if they are repeatedly jerking on the dog, smacking him, etc. No really bad trainer would suggest you watching them while they do this.

On the other hand, the majority of trainers I have met do not have their own building, large enough for the mirror room. Only one place I went to had such a situation, and her homeowner's association shut her down.

I guess it would be best to get more information from the trainer, and ask specifically why you should not be present. Suggest having him train the dog at a local track or fairgrounds where you can sit high up in the grandstands, where you can watch but not be observed by your dog. It is a thought.

 

[PaddyD]

"Hey, thanks for your reply.
But Cesar takes RED case dogs away as they need to learn pack rules and its better for them and easier for them to learn.
Now i've not seen all of his shows but most of them i have seen is with him teaching the owner plus the dog on how to act together.
As for the references hes only been in Montpellier for 2 months, he's been doing the training (in Spain) for 4 years so he says, so cant really get them from him."

_________________
Ya, was only using that as an broad example of removing the dog from the owner for the purpose of working with him. Well....... if you can't get sufficient good references, then don't take any chances. Surely there are alternatives. Bonne Chance!!

 

[selzer]

I would not trust Cesar to take any of my dogs out of my sight.

Without references, and without close specifics on what and how he wants to train your dog, well I just do not know that I would let him remove the dog.

Even with references. Think about it. If someone kicks the crap out of your dog, or chokes it into submission, and after several of these sessions, the dog sees the light and his spirit broken, does out of fear what you want for him to do, you have what you asked for, a dog that does not pull. You might even give the guy a good reference.

We think we would KNOW if our dog was abused. I think that that is uncommon. I think that maybe a good majority of nervy dogs are nervy without any manhandling abuse involved. And many dogs with good nerves can be manhandled to the point of abuse without having any negative consequences after the fact.

I would suggest finding classes where the trainer trains you how to work with your dog. And plan on going to classes once a week for a year. Expect to train the dog at least 4 times a week on your own, for at least 10 - 15 minutes, double that if you are training 5 - 10 minutes.

At the end of the year, your dog may not be perfect, but I think you will be very pleased with him, and you will know where you want to go with him the next year.

And you will know that you did the work with him yourself, and nobody used any foul measures on him.

You will have an awesome bond with the dog. There really are no shortcuts when it comes to bonding with the dog. It is work, that you cannot trust to anyone else. Can someone come in and exercise your dog every day while you are working? Sure. But training and socializing and bonding really need to come from the owner.

 

[Mickeynads]

Hey Selzer thanks for the great info..

I was actually thinking of trying that, just going to a place where i could watch him with my dog and see how he was acting with him but the trainer just suggested to me that it is really best that i am away from him and i still don't really understand why as he didn't really explain to me why.
I met him yesterday and when he took my dog on a lead for just a few minutes while i was there, my dog started crying and trying to get to me very strongly, he seemed devastated and heart-broken and the trainer could hardly keep him close to him and one thing i also realized is, if he doesn't see me around, he will try anything to get to me so how can the trainer guarantee that the dog won't just run away from him if i am not there for example, or worse being hit by a car by trying to find me after he's got off the lead. That's also another reason why i definitively can't accept that, no matter how good his references are because like you said first you will never know what he can do to your dog and second, the training and the bond needs to come from me not from him.