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Discussion Starter #1
... and held my breath. Yup, told my German vet that after Grimm returns from send-away training, I want to switch him to an all-raw, no kibble at all diet. I didn't know how she would react to this. Bear in mind that Germany is 20 years behind us with dogfoods, while one can with effort order Orijen and a few others, the usual ingedients here for top premium dogfoods made here read: "Corn, wheat flour, rice bran, meat by-products, rice, poultry fat..." It's a nation of itchy, gassy dogs. Okay, holding my breath after telling the vet...


She was DELIGHTED! She said, "If you could do that-- he would only be getting vitamins and minerals pure, with no chemical extras, no grains.. oh, you CAN use potatoes though! But, if you could give him just the meat, bones, and a little bit of organ pieces, he would be a healthier dog! This is best for example, for allergies! I read a paper about raw feeding! The dogs grew better, and had all their vitamins available to them in the raw food!" She was excited, because she has only one client now feeding raw due to allergies. She said that she can never get anyone to raw feed, because of the extra time/work involved. I think where there is a well-known option of just opening a bag... most don't see the need to go through the effort. (I have a balcony.. I can just throw the pieces of meat and bone out there's not even any clean-up, it's ceramic tile flooring out there)

Anyway, I am sooo relieved that she didn't freak out about this. Now I can freak out-- raw feeding seems so complicated!
I want to start right.I gotta start right.. we live on the 12th floor, have slow elevators, and diarrhea can NOT happen here!


Anyway, I am excited to have my vet's support!
 

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All 3 of my vets freaked out. I mean they are great as vets but why don't they get this? Are they taught in college it's horrible or what?
 

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Unfortunately most are not taught much of anything about nutrition in school, and what they are taught is sponsored by pet food companies (usually hills). Unless they actively seek out additional education on nutrition this is what we are spoon fed. Actually the few German handlers/trainers I have been around know all about raw and are for it, so it may be more common in Germany than you may think. I for the first time last year had the correct response from a vet when I mentioned that I feed raw... "O.K., tell me what you are feeding and why?" I had no issue going through my menu. That is what I want to hear, a vet that wants to make sure I'm providing balanced nutrition as opposed to "You are going to kill your dogs!".
 

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I was at the vet on Wed. and the fact that I feed raw came up, my vet flinched, but said nothing! This was right after she told me how good Kacie looked...I'm sure if I had asked why she made such a face, she would have told me science diet was the best food to feed.
 

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While at my last vet visit, we were discussing what I have been feeding my dogs- Canidae, given a minute to sit with warm water, with a tablespoon or a little less of canned food-either Canidae canned or one of the 95 beef,turkey, chicken or salmon. I add 1000 mg fish oil, 200 iu vitamin E, and for my two females and senior (HD, ED, and arthritis) I add Cosequin DS. He was like GREAT! I asked about Vitamin C- I have heard that there are health benefits, and he said no, they dont need extra- so, I am going to do a bit of independent research on this. But when I mentioned I had read about raw diets, he was like yea I dont like that new thing- Ecoli, salmonella, just more chances for them to get a disease. So, I also think that vets are not schooled that well on nutrition, when I ask any vitamin/mineral questions, holistic questions, he really doesnt know. He is a wonderful vet however.
 

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Funny how they all say how great your dog looks and then tell you that raw is a bad way to feed. But, you can't argue with results. When people tell me that Daisy is the softest dog they have ever petted, or that Gunnar's coat is fantastic, you know there is a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
DanL, that's actually my problem-- Grimm's coat is HORRIBLE!!
He is not on raw yet... he is on Orijen Fish, ful of fish oils etc.. but it isn't 'real food'-- isn't raw. This is why we are switching to raw in about 2 months.

I think it is great when we can find supportive vets, as you said John!

OnyxsGirl, exactly.. what could she say after seeing how great Kacie looked?
 

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Wow. I think you lucked out with your vet! Our first one never said anything about what I feed Ris--until Risa got sick with SIBO last year. Then she blamed Ris' illness on her diet despite the fact that Risa had been just fine for 8 months on the same food. We switched vets and I couldn't be happier.
The new vet agreed that raw food was a great way to feed Risa and looked past her diet to the symptoms and worked on a diagnosis. I'm so happy to hear your vet is 100% behind your decision to feed Grimm raw. That makes life so much simpler!
 

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That's awesome, Patti! One less thing to worry about!

Although when you mentioned the balcony, I envisioned Grimm accidentally moving the raw meat & bones over the edge, falling down on your neighbors head walking down below.


All good things come from "above", right?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Uhhhh...
UH-oh.... Mädchen, are my neighbors related to you or something, and you got a phonecall??
There WAS an incident in November when Grimm had a chicken leg one minute, and the next he didn't.
It slid to the edge between the flooring and railing and fell through the crack. There are several balconies below. I will not disclose any other such incidents
of body parts falling
into balconies, but let's just say... I shall supervise feeding time much better now.
 

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Jamie, so glad you got a good vet who believes in raw feeding! I think "it's the raw diet" was an easy out for the last vet, without him/her doing any research.. easy answer without any basis in fact. Good for you for finding a vet who understands nutrition better!

To be honest, each time Grimm got sick he happened to be on raw, too... but, I am feeding three meals per day instead of two, so it was kibble breakfast, raw lunch, kibble dinner.. not smart. For many dogs, this could be fine-- for Grimm, he needs either all kibble or all raw, because the meals are so close together and for him, having both does not work well. On an all-raw diet, everything will be moving through faster, breaking down quicker than puffs of overcooked dry kibble. I feed a premium grain-free, but still..

I am still sending Risa happy poop vibes! Hoping she is doing great on her regimen now!
 

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Crazy thing about the old vet is that she didn't even really offer any testing! We did some fecal analyses and she gave me antibiotics for Ris. I was offered a crazy expensive fecal exam ($200 or so) that would only test for Giardia and two things I hadn't heard of before. When I declined the fecal, her plan of action was to just try more antibiotics if the ones Ris was on didn't work. Ridiculous.

New vet gave us a round of Panacur to eliminate any potential parasites, ran a CBC and a Giardia antigen test (the only one I requested was the Giardia test but I had wanted a CBC too). Since everything came back fine, the next visit we ran the TLI/Cobalamin/B12 test and BINGO! Got our answers. She's so easy to talk to as well and really listens to what I say and my thoughts as well. I am SO glad I switched. It really does make life much easier when you feel confident in ALL of your vet's abilities.


I'm not sure how Ris is doing just yet as she decided not to poop yesterday. Not unusual for her but a bit frustrating when you're trying to figure out how she's doing! Today's her second day of the Metra and she just had her first dose of the probiotic/digestive enzyme last night as well as her Tylan and her joint supplement. Drug dog!
 

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Originally Posted By: Brightelf
To be honest, each time Grimm got sick he happened to be on raw, too... but, I am feeding three meals per day instead of two, so it was kibble breakfast, raw lunch, kibble dinner.. not smart. For many dogs, this could be fine-- for Grimm, he needs either all kibble or all raw, because the meals are so close together and for him, having both does not work well. On an all-raw diet, everything will be moving through faster, breaking down quicker than puffs of overcooked dry kibble. I feed a premium grain-free, but still..
I was going to say that you really have to pick one, or feed the kibble and raw far apart, maybe 12 hours. It tends to really throw off their systems. I volunteer with pit rescues, and we tend to see this as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
yep. Kibble for now.. will switch to raw completely, with no kibble, a month after he returns home from 3-week send-away training. (want him to be stable and calm here at home first)
 
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