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Discussion Starter #1
Cheap puppy = BYB (usually)

If you want a cheap BYB dog, go to the shelter and save one.

Buying a puppy from a BYB will cause them to produce more puppies. If they are not making money, then they will not produce more dogs.

You're not saving a puppy by getting it from a BYB, you're giving the BYB more reason to keep producing puppies.

You have a better chance getting a healthier puppy if you go with a Reputable Breeder than getting one from a BYB. However, there is still a chance that you can get an unhealthy puppy from a Reputable Breeder, but the chance is smaller.

Do not support BYB's, please get your puppy from a Reputable Breeder!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I would like to add that I got my GSD from a BYB, I didn't know any better. He's a great dog and everything that I wanted but he isn't even 2 years old yet so who knows what health problems might come up in the future.

I will never support a BYB again.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I would think it is cheap, rescues usually adopt dogs out for $200-$250.

$350 sounds pretty cheap to me for a PB puppy.
 

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I am not trying to steal your thread or anything, but I was wondering if there is a thread helping people identify a BYB. I mean some of the BYB's have pretty fancy websites and really put on a good show for people. Is it just the cheap price that helps you recognize that they are BYB breeders? If they are cheap then they are a BYB breeder? I am just wondering like I said because I would say 98% of all the classifieds I see then would be a BYB? I am not arguing that they aren't because they are, but are there other ways to help people to tell the difference between reputable and BYB?
 

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Did you see this thread?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

This chart is pretty good too:
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html

To me, the quickest way to separate the two has been to ask, "Why did you breed these two dogs?" A Byb will say something like, "Well, she's really gorgeous and my brother had this good-looking male and they both have really nice temperaments."

A responsible breeder will talk for ever about the parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, using phrases like "I brought Sven in to balance out the structure," or "I used an Arko son to improve hips" or "Quanda always brings strong pigment and a healthy prey drive," or "Kimi puppies tend to have an off-switch."
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I am not trying to steal your thread or anything, but I was wondering if there is a thread helping people identify a BYB. I mean some of the BYB's have pretty fancy websites and really put on a good show for people. Is it just the cheap price that helps you recognize that they are BYB breeders? If they are cheap then they are a BYB breeder? I am just wondering like I said because I would say 98% of all the classifieds I see then would be a BYB? I am not arguing that they aren't because they are, but are there other ways to help people to tell the difference between reputable and BYB?
You can ask whatever questions you like. :)

I would say

1) Price

2) Are the dogs OFA'd?

3) Do they do any titling or showing or working with their dogs?

4) How many litters do they produce a year?

5) Do they let you choose whatever puppy you like?

6) Do they let you take home 2 or 3 puppies?

7) Do they ask you any questions or are they just interested in selling you a puppy?

8) Are they breeding dogs that are under 2 years old?

9) How many times do they breed one female a year?

10) Are they breeding females passed the age of 7?

Those all say BYB to me.


That's all I can think of right now, sorry. :(
 

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Thank you both. I am not looking for another GSD. I can't handle another one right now. I was just wondering how to choose a reputable breeder in the future for a small breed dog(min pin). I know I will want another one in the future and was trying to do research, but I was quite confused about how to properly identify a BYB. That chart is very helpful-Thanks Emoore.
Thank you LaRen.
 

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Just noticed that the chart has a couple of things that apply specifically to Boxers, as it's from a Boxer organization. But 99% of the chart is applicable to all breeds. Some of the health tests that they mention apply to health issues that are prevalent in Boxers. You would want to ask your breeder for health tests that apply to GSDs, mostly hip/elbow x-rays.
 

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and the breeder will have a contract with you...that if ever you can't keep the dog...for the life of the dog...the dog is returned to the breeder....because they care...and never want to see their dogs passed around or end up in shelters.
 

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I would like to add that I got my GSD from a BYB, I didn't know any better. He's a great dog and everything that I wanted but he isn't even 2 years old yet so who knows what health problems might come up in the future.

I will never support a BYB again.
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So did I, but 'my' BYB breeds seldom and selectively. I was fortunate to get a granddaughter of a Grand Victor for much less than a pet shop price. Not all BYBs are bad for the breed, some are just low-key about it. BTW, Some rescues in this area charge around $500 for the privilege.
 

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We were very lucky with our first GSD 11 years ago. It was clearly a BYB in which we purchased her. She was a beautiful dog who was easy to train. She did have 1 displasic hip (we gave her zubrin to help inflamation) and we did need to have her spleen removed at the age of 7 so the cost eventually was the same as buying from a reputable breeder in the long run, I guess... lol

With our newest puppy (my avatar) we decided to purchase from a reputable long-standing breeder in the area. Cost was significantly more, but I can't wait to see how different the new dog will be compared to our sweet former pup. I can already tell she will be easy to train.

It's amazing how many people are unaware of backyard breeders. We learned our lesson and didn't even have THAT many health issues along the way.
 

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Did you see this thread?
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/137533-things-look-responsible-breeder.html

This chart is pretty good too:
Backyard Breeder vs Reputable Breeder

To me, the quickest way to separate the two has been to ask, "Why did you breed these two dogs?" A Byb will say something like, "Well, she's really gorgeous and my brother had this good-looking male and they both have really nice temperaments."

A responsible breeder will talk for ever about the parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents, using phrases like "I brought Sven in to balance out the structure," or "I used an Arko son to improve hips" or "Quanda always brings strong pigment and a healthy prey drive," or "Kimi puppies tend to have an off-switch."
Agreed.

I thought I did a lot of research into my dogs, but I was wrong. Ended up with one with health issues and another with temperament problems. Please, for your own sanity, rescue a dog or buy one from a good breeder. It's heartbreaking to see your dogs in pain because the breeder didn't pay enough attention to health issues, or to see your dog unable to interact with people properly. Holding Minnie on the bathroom floor at 2 am while she cries because her tummy hurts every few weeks is horrible. The next time I buy a dog, I'm going to be the most obnoxious, pokey, nosey buyer I can be. For my sanity, and the physical and mental health of my dogs.
 

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Oh, and I want to also say, that just because they're expensive doesn't mean you have a good breeder. Minnie was very expensive ($1000+).
 

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I wish there was a special web site that represented quality pups from reputable breeders that was easy to navigate for folks who are looking for GSD puppys (or older dogs) to look through when searching for a puppy.

Like it would say working, show, companion and you choose which you are looking for. Then you keep drilling down till you find breeders that fit what you are looking for.

It's just too easy for byb to advertise their pups. If a person is looking for a pup, the byb puppies are always the first you find. Unless, you find a forum like this..or know someone who knows someone....etc.
 

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I think adopting might be in my future for my next small breed then. I have never adopted a small breed before only large breeds and that turned out well. Lola was adopted. I have had her since she was 4 months old. I just don't want to support a BYB and by all the information I just got it seems like almost all of the ads I see are for BYBs. Adoption is looking real good to me right now. :)
 

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My husband is the same way. When I told him or next GSD would cost 1200+ he about fliped. He said that's for a traind adult right I said no a puppy from traind adults. He said we WOULD NOT pay that much for a pup that we would get anoter the out of the paper like Bella For 200$ even tho she has a crappy temperment and is proving very hard to socilaze she loves us HATES everyone else. I can't even get her to accept my parents or inlaws. And my parents live next door and she sees them a few times a week. :( ill have to send $ under the table and make him think I'm paying less than I really am.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I wish there was a special web site that represented quality pups from reputable breeders that was easy to navigate for folks who are looking for GSD puppys (or older dogs) to look through when searching for a puppy.

Like it would say working, show, companion and you choose which you are looking for. Then you keep drilling down till you find breeders that fit what you are looking for.

It's just too easy for byb to advertise their pups. If a person is looking for a pup, the byb puppies are always the first you find. Unless, you find a forum like this..or know someone who knows someone....etc.
You are very right. When you open a newspaper it is FILLED with BYB's in the dog section. It's terrible!
 

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You are very right. When you open a newspaper it is FILLED with BYB's in the dog section. It's terrible!
Yes, that is why I was so confused because those are the only types of ads I ever see. I could not distinguish them apart from reputable. Some of them have really fancy websites too. It is so hard to tell them apart. So like I said before adoption is definately looking like the way to go for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Yes, that is why I was so confused because those are the only types of ads I ever see. I could not distinguish them apart from reputable. Some of them have really fancy websites too. It is so hard to tell them apart. So like I said before adoption is definately looking like the way to go for me.
Adoption is always a wonderful option, you are saving a life.

But if you ever want to go through a breeder again just remember what signs to avoid. :)
 
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